Divine Proportion (The Golden Ratio) - Evidence of our creator?

[The Golden Ratio is a universal law] in which is contained the ground-principle of all formative striving for beauty and completeness in the realms of both nature and art, and which permeates, as a paramount spiritual ideal, all structures, forms and proportions, whether cosmic or individual, organic or inorganic, acoustic or optical; which finds its fullest realization, however, in the human form.

en.wikipedia.org...

I'd like your thoughts on this.

reply to post by B.A.C.


Or it could be an evidence of us as creators? Could it be an evidence for our eternal souls?

Numbers and mathematics have always been there independent of human minds. Mathematical Realism

If φ is a proof of our creator (according to you), then why can't it be a proof of US?

reply to post by B.A.C.


Ehm...I would like to say that the Golden Ratio is, maybe not the "proof" of God, but one of the strongest arguments for God's existance.

Now, one should know that my personal conviction of God's existance is not up for debate. So if you feel the need to "test my faith", you do so in vain.

There might, however, be place for debate over exactly what God really is. But that is leaning towards off-topic posts.

So, to bring this back to the OP: yes, I would like to think so.

(P.S. I am not Christian or member of any organized religion. D.S.)

it says a few things to me.

a - someone(s) clever enough, INVENTED these measurements and incorporated these measurements into our design

b - someone(s) clever enough, COPIED these measurements and incorporated these measurements into our design

c - someone(s) clever enough, invented us and incorporated a method into our design that allows for the most ideal measurements to evolve.. and they did as such.

d- the most ideal measurements simply evolved on their own.. and they did as such.

e - all of the above happen all the time everywhere.


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reply to post by prevenge

a - someone(s) clever enough, INVENTED these measurements and incorporated these measurements into our design

So basically what you are saying that it's an arbitrary measurement? If, for example, there is someone on another planet millions of light years away who is mathematically inclined. Is it possible for this person to "invent" a different measurement?

I am not understanding your point. Please clarify.

What I'm showing here can be considered as a Mantra.
While meditating, you will find a lot of Golden ratio evidences, which can be supported by maths.
In this Mantra, you can also see the Great Pyramid section and the Pentagram into the same circle.

ImagesHack link

ATS Image :

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8ca7f32b68b4.jpg[/atsimg]


[edit on 5-3-2009 by orkson]

Other evidence of the Golden Ratio : the well known "Man" of Da Vinci.

[URL=http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leonardodavincimanincir.jpg][ /URL]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by orkson]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by orkson]

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by prevenge

 

a - someone(s) clever enough, INVENTED these measurements and incorporated these measurements into our design

So basically what you are saying that it's an arbitrary measurement? If, for example, there is someone on another planet millions of light years away who is mathematically inclined. Is it possible for this person to "invent" a different measurement?

I am not understanding your point. Please clarify.

invented the idea .. came up with the idea..
to use the measurements in designing the physiology of that which is created.

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Enjoy this minbreaking view of the whole Universe ...

Golden Rectangle and Fibonacci

It is not only a physical measurement, it is also a time line.

Interesting, for sure!

reply to post by prevenge

invented the idea .. came up with the idea.. to use the measurements in designing the physiology of that which is created.

And yet the measurement was still there way before humans came into existence. No, they did not "invent" the idea. It was there the whole time. Did you read the link I provided?

There are plenty of golden ratios in nature. Did humans invent these? No, it was there the whole time. We merely discovered them.

What is extraordinary is that when one is observing universe, he finds LAWS.
Some laws show off in the material forms (Golden ratio in a flower or a leaf, for example).
Some are hidden (like the physical laws, which can be told in the mathematical langage, IE inerty : W=m*V² or the attraction law : A=m*m'/D² ).

So, there is ORDER in the Universe.

On the contrary, there is an universal LAW wich is ENTROPY : when you go from some state of energy, ity comes to a lower state when TIME passes.
So, when you go from some ORDER, it goes to some DIS-ORDER.

In that respect, the present state of ORDER must come from a HIGHER state of order.

And for our minds, this is impossible to figure unless we put into the idea of GOD.

What is the higher state of PERFECTION ?

Divine Proportion (The Golden Ratio) - Evidence of our creator?

No, not really...

Evidence that (fractal) geometry rules the universe ?

I would say: definitely

Originally posted by orkson
So, there is ORDER in the Universe.

On the contrary, there is an universal LAW wich is ENTROPY : when you go from some state of energy, ity comes to a lower state when TIME passes.
So, when you go from some ORDER, it goes to some DIS-ORDER.

In that respect, the present state of ORDER must come from a HIGHER state of order.

And for our minds, this is impossible to figure unless we put into the idea of GOD.

Nice. Now I know that God was not figment of my imagination, He is now real for real

However, there is a one fatal flaw in your logic...

Entropy always increases only in perfectly (ideal) enclosed systems.

Mother Earth is not such a system because there is constant flow of extra energy coming from the sun, therefore plenty of chance for islands of negentropy A.K.A. life

It is certainly most extraordinary that there are such "rules" of beauty and that we can perceive them.

What points to a Creator is that we are capable of understanding what it around us, why should we be able to? That this ability permeats not only naked scientific facts but also more ethereal qualities such as beauty should be a clue - but humanity continues its vivisection of the universe.

Originally posted by 5thElement
Divine Proportion (The Golden Ratio) - Evidence of our creator?

No, not really...

Evidence that (fractal) geometry rules the universe ?

I would say: definitely

What is your opinion on WHY we find geometry everywhere?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by B.A.C.

 

Or it could be an evidence of us as creators? Could it be an evidence for our eternal souls?

Numbers and mathematics have always been there independent of human minds. Mathematical Realism

If φ is a proof of our creator (according to you), then why can't it be a proof of US?

Good point.

I never said it was proof, hence the question mark. I am just looking for opinions, like the one you provided, which I think is a good thought on the subject.

Cheers.

reply to post by 5thElement


Earth is just a flee # in the Universe.

All physical laws apply to the whole universe.

Universe ( let's call it the WHOLE ) may itself be considered as an enclosed system. So Entropy may (theoritically) ever increase inside the boundaries of the Universe. As such, the total amount of energy from the "Big Bang" is set to diminish with time.

Nevertheless, it's true that LIFE sets a problem.

The biggest problem is the NEGENTROPIC process that we call evolution.

- Either every species were created as they are to-day, and their only possible "evolution" is to decay when time passes, which is an ENTROPIC process.
- OR evolution is true, and the species are IMPROVING, which is a NEGENTROPIC process.

What do you think of this paradox ?

Originally posted by 5thElement
Divine Proportion (The Golden Ratio) - Evidence of our creator?

No, not really...

Evidence that (fractal) geometry rules the universe ?

I would say: definitely

Now if we can convince some people that geometry = god, we'd be on our way to a numerate population. We could go one further and tell them how maths is the queen of the sciences, then we might have the possibility for scientific literacy as well.

One can wish...

reply to post by B.A.C.


More like not any but Fractal Geometry. Also known as deterministic Chaos.

I believe that no one knows that (yet), but my guess would be that life follows the path of lowest resistance through 4th dimensional space.

Of course we see this as 3 dimensional projection.

I could be wrong though ...

Anyways, there is this interesting guy who likes to play with the idea.

His name is Nassim Haramein.

Here is the LINK to his page. Check it out, plenty of videos to watch, expecially if you like physics

@ orkson:

I do not believe that is a paradox. For every "force" somewhere in universe is opposing one (does not have to be of the same magnitude though). There is plenty of matter, but somewhere there should be and most likely are "islands" of antimatter in universe ...