What's the relationship between Illuminati & Freemason??

I still can't clear what's the different about Illuminati & Freemason?
It seem to be same...
can anyone tell me??

(sorry,i am from HongKong,english may be not good)

Originally posted by Alchemist
I still can't clear what's the different about Illuminati & Freemason?
It seem to be same...
can anyone tell me??

(sorry,i am from HongKong,english may be not good)

The Illuminati was founded in Bavaria, Germany in May of 1776 by two Freemasons, Adam Weishaupt and Adolph Von Knigge.
Originally, the only relation between Illuminati and Masonry was that some members belonged to both organizations. However, as membership in the Illuminati quickly grew, and the Bavarian government began to crack down on them, they restructured their organization into a degree system which was inspired by Masonry.

The Illuminati consisted of the following degrees, divided among respective classes:

Class 1: The Nursery
Preparatory Literary Essay
Novitiate
Minerval
Minor Illuminos
Magistratus

Class 2: Symbolic Freemasonry
Entered Apprentice
Fellow Craft
Master Mason
Major Illuminos

Class 3: Lesser Mysteries
Presbyter
Epopt
Regent

Class 4: Greater Mysteries
Magus
Rex

Even though the Illuminati technically consisted of these 14 degrees, according to Weishaupt, the last 5 degrees were never completed in writing, and were honorary titles only.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 17-4-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Alchemist
I still can't clear what's the different about Illuminati & Freemason?
It seem to be same...
can anyone tell me??

(sorry,i am from HongKong,english may be not good)

The Illuminati was founded in Bavaria, Germany in May of 1776 by two Freemasons, Adam Weishaupt and Adolph Von Knigge.
Originally, the only relation between Illuminati and Masonry was that some members belonged to both organizations. However, as membership in the Illuminati quickly grew, and the Bavarian government began to crack down on them, they restructured their organization into a degree system which was inspired by Masonry.

The Illuminati consisted of the following degrees, divided among respective classes:

Class 1: The Nursery
Preparatory Literary Essay
Novitiate
Minerval
Minor Illuminos
Magistratus

Class 2: Symbolic Freemasonry
Entered Apprentice
Fellow Craft
Master Mason
Major Illuminos

Class 3: Lesser Mysteries
Presbyter
Epopt
Regent

Class 4: Greater Mysteries
Magus
Rex

Even though the Illuminati technically consisted of these 14 degrees, according to Weishaupt, the last 5 degrees were never completed in writing, and were honorary titles only.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 17-4-2004 by Masonic Light]

so they are two different organization today?
Freemason 33 degrees & Illuminati 14 degrees??

and they seem also doing the same thing:New World Order,so why they don't merge together??

The Illuminati orignated from Bavaria, Germany yes. They fled in a crackdown and 'illuminised' various lodges around Europe. They are already merged together, it was done a long time ago but whether the Illuminati still exist is difficult to know. However, whether the name Illuminati is still used is irrelvant, groups which act on the principles of the Illumanti exist already and are forming the NWO

Originally posted by Alchemist
so they are two different organization today?
Freemason 33 degrees & Illuminati 14 degrees??

The Illuminati was disbanded by Weishaupt in 1785. It existed for less than a decade. However, Ordo Templi Orientis re-wrote several of their degrees, and continue to confer Illuminist Grades upon their members.
As for Freemasonry, only the Scottish Rite consists of 33 degrees. Other Rites differ.

and they seem also doing the same thing:New World Order,so why they don't merge together??

Neither the Illuminati nor Freemasonry has ever cared about any "new world order." Freemasonry is a spiritual and philosophical journey, not a political one. The Masonic Fraternity recognizes that society is bettered only when its individual members are, and thus offers opportunity for individual retrospection and growth.
The Illuminati, on the other hand, was politically motivated, but focused on Bavarian politics. The Illuminati's ultimate goal was to overthrow the Bavarian Electorate, and establish in its place a consitutional democracy.
Today, the Illuminati's dream has been fulfilled, and a united Germany lives in freedom.

Fiat Lvx.

Freemason is easy to understand, but theres so much myth surrounding the illuminati that its pretty hard to determind how its setup. Some text suggest that the illuminati formed in egypt around about 500BC *i think*

Originally posted by infinite
Freemason is easy to understand, but theres so much myth surrounding the illuminati that its pretty hard to determind how its setup. Some text suggest that the illuminati formed in egypt around about 500BC *i think*

That sort of comes back to semantics again....it depends on what we mean by the word "Illuminati". If we mean it generically, as in a group of enlightened people, there has always been "illuminati", and hopefully, always will be.
If we mean by the word a semi-secret society that Brother Weishaupt once led, this particular organization was founded by six men on May 1, 1776.
There was also a regular Masonic Rite called Illuminati in Sweden that predated Weishaupt's group. This group, the Illuminati of Stockholm, merged with the Swedenbourgian Rite of Masonry by an official act of its High Council in the mid-1800's, giving birth to the Swedish Rite, as well Knights Beneficent of the Holy City (C.B.C.S.) of the Rite of Strict Observance which still exists in the U.S.

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 17-4-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Alchemist
so they are two different organization today?
Freemason 33 degrees & Illuminati 14 degrees??

The Illuminati was disbanded by Weishaupt in 1785. It existed for less than a decade. However, Ordo Templi Orientis re-wrote several of their degrees, and continue to confer Illuminist Grades upon their members.
As for Freemasonry, only the Scottish Rite consists of 33 degrees. Other Rites differ.

and they seem also doing the same thing:New World Order,so why they don't merge together??

Neither the Illuminati nor Freemasonry has ever cared about any "new world order." Freemasonry is a spiritual and philosophical journey, not a political one. The Masonic Fraternity recognizes that society is bettered only when its individual members are, and thus offers opportunity for individual retrospection and growth.
The Illuminati, on the other hand, was politically motivated, but focused on Bavarian politics. The Illuminati's ultimate goal was to overthrow the Bavarian Electorate, and establish in its place a consitutional democracy.
Today, the Illuminati's dream has been fulfilled, and a united Germany lives in freedom.

Fiat Lvx.

so that they are not going to do the "NWO"??
hm......but why so many people said that??

and i heard they are believe in Lucifer,it that true??

The eye above the Pyramid on US dollar,also is the Ra??
so Lucifer=Ra??

[Edited on 18-4-2004 by Alchemist]

so that they are not going to do the "NWO"??

Please see the other Illuminati threads, where these subjects have already been elaborated upon.

The forums are pretty difficult to read if you want general knowledge about the Masons and Illuminati. Better to read web site guides. But be careful which ones you pick, some are crazy.

Originally posted by mrsteve
The forums are pretty difficult to read if you want general knowledge about the Masons and Illuminati. Better to read web site guides. But be careful which ones you pick, some are crazy.

any good site can recommend to me?
thx~

Originally posted by Alchemist
[any good site can recommend to me?
thx~

Try freemasonry.bcy.ca...

So ML is it fair t say in a way the Illuminati as it once was has morphed into different organizations over time? Much like the Templar did the same thing. ML have you read through The Temple & the Lodge? It is not an anti Mason book by any degree but instead does a non biased look into the history of Freemasonry.



[Edited on 18-4-2004 by oconnection]

Originally posted by oconnection
So ML is it fair t say in a way the Illuminati as it once was has morphed into different organizations over time? Much like the Templar did the same thing.

I would say no. The original Illuminati was not able to evolve, it having been crushed by the Bavarian government. But even though the Illuminati did not survive, many of their ideas certainly did, and influenced other organizations and individuals.

ML have you read through The Temple & the Lodge? It is not an anti Mason book by any degree but instead does a non biased look into the history of Freemasonry.

Yes, I've read it, my Lodge has a copy of it in our library. Personally, I see it as being similar to books by Knight & Lomas, like "The Hiram Key". These books are interesting and entertaining, but are lacking credibility from the perspective of historical scholarship. Freemasonry, Templarism, etc., has been the subject of thousands of books; the majority of these, even when written by Masons or friends of Masonry, almost inevitably make wild and exaggerated claims, detailing legends and myths as if they were historical facts.
Scholarly Masonic research concedes that it is possible that some fugitive Templars may have joined the Scottish and English Masonic guilds, but historians must remain conservative in their conclusions to be credible. In reality, there is no evidence that historical Templarism was connected in any way with Masonry.
For example, the earliest record we have a Brother being made a Knight Templar in a Masonic Lodge is from the minutes of a French Lodge in 1724. Most �serious� Masonic researchers believe that this was, more or less, the birth of Masonic Templarism.
In England and Scotland at the time, Masonry was probably correctly viewed as the successor to the stonemason guilds. It is likely that when Masonry entered France and began attracting aristocrats, they enjoyed Masonry, but thought it was ignoble to sponsor a Society founded by regular �working Joes�. So to make themselves feel more aristocratic, they invented a romantic legend of being descended from the Knights Templar.
The elitist behavior of the aristocratic French Masons was also the cause of the schism in the Fraternity there: they refused to admit �commoners� into their Lodges. The Grand Lodges of England and Scotland called such elitism unmasonic, and transferred fraternal recognition to non-aristocratic French Lodges.
In any case, the Templar legend was soon adopted by both the York and Scottish Rites. In the York, the degree of Knight Templar is the highest, and is a very beautiful and impressive ceremony. In the Scottish Rite, the 27�, 29�, 30�, and 33� are also Grades of Templarism, although the Scottish Rite degrees were re-written by Albert Pike to downplay their military character, and stress philosophy and mysticism.

Fiat Lvx.

Please see the other Illuminati threads, where these subjects have already been elaborated upon.

oh...do u believe they going to do the "NWO"?

reply to post by Alchemist


If you ever spoken to people that have been courious of why certain groups or orginizations
exsist then you would find reason to research it and find the truth in it for yourself cause there
is a duality to everything

Masonry started off of faith based community in BCE and was made to educate
others around them, to provide away for God to speak to them. However their
were idols already in place so who was around to truly say different. Phrophets
were spoke of but never entertained by inward thinkers. Stone Masonry is where it all began

the illuminati was and politcal and spiritual orginized group of men
who decided take a stand against the mass over flow of believers
that saw that there was a "True King" that would bring Israel out of bondage
and destroy egypt and change the worlds exsistence of captivity
henceforth- The New World Order was creat by the Change
in the Jewish community and there belief in God plan
"not man's" [Before.Christ.Exsisted].

I still do not buy into the Freemasonic/Illuminati connect a dot game some of you play. To me, it's a theory based upon a fallacy. There are Christians who are affiliated with the Illuminati as well... Am I to presuppose that since this is the case that Christianity as a whole is involved in the Illuminati agenda?




The whole anti-Freemasonic argument is based upon a fallacious argument as best as I can tell.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I still do not buy into the Freemasonic/Illuminati connect a dot game some of you play. To me, it's a theory based upon a fallacy. There are Christians who are affiliated with the Illuminati as well... Am I to presuppose that since this is the case that Christianity as a whole is involved in the Illuminati agenda?

The whole anti-Freemasonic argument is based upon a fallacious argument as best as I can tell.

You're absolutely right. It's based on a number of things, but most current anti-Mason stuff is based on the Taxil Hoax, and furthered by a few well-known (and well-paid) paranoid schizophrenics who need to blame a "THEM" for all of the world's evils, and given enough latitude, could probably tie 9/11 to the Virgin Mary. Their whacked out theories are eaten up and supported by weak-minded, pseudo-intellectual armchair-and-internet sleuths practicing poor etymology and symbology, and jumping to conclusions, all ending up on a number of badly misinformed websites, each using the other as their "evidence". Add a couple of papal bulls when the it was convenient for the Catholic Church (see Taxil Hoax). And let's not start with the "Born Again" (AKA Christian Taliban) crowd who cherry-pick snippets of scripture completely out of context, and see Satan in everything.

People think there's something going on because Freemasons won't tell their "secrets". The secrets are trivial to the real world - a few passwords, a few handshakes and so on. The reason they won't tell isn't because they're the plans for world domination, it's simply because they've promised not to. Keeping that promise is the proof of the Mason's honour, and honour is everything in Masonry.

There is no blood oath (there are grisly SYMBOLIC penalties described, but no blood - real, fake, or imagined - is ever used), there is no Ba'al or Lucifer worship, and there is no collusion for world domination.

And there is NO link, no relationship with or to the Bavarian Illuminati, other than the founder being a Mason, and there's definitely NO tie to the modern "Illuminati" / "Elite" / "Power Cabal" or whatever the tinfoil hat crowd want to call the "THEM" this week. The truth is actually pretty boring.

As to the origins of Freemasonry - Google is your friend. Or go to the link posted above, www.freemasonry.bcy.ca... It'll tell you everything but the "secrets", but otherwise, all that you need to know is there.

Freemason: Any man who believes in a higher power may join.
Illuminati: Bloodlines.

When the few Knights Templar hadnt been killed by the Church they fled to Scotland. These are the men of the Scottish Rite who believe in the 33 degrees.

Most Mason Lodges only follow 3.

Members of the "elite" believed that because they had been born of priviledge they were entitled to information without having gone through degree work. Which is when they branced out and became the Illuminati. Because the Masons would not give it to them. Go back to the murder of Hiram Abiff if you need to understand the concept.

with their 13 degrees.

33+13= 46.
Bloodline conception. 46x2=92.
92 strands of DNA. Two intertwinding families blending.
Back to blood.

The have exisisted basically since civilization began.
The Illuminati is just the name their going by now.