Those who are Awake have no obligations to those who are asleep.

reply to post by Electro38


Once you realize reality has a fractal structure it becomes possible to go from the subjective to the objective. We all have the same structure of the universe within us, so we can understand the objective reality from it. This is part of the 'awake' meme also. Your argument is valid from a scientific left brain rational point of view, but there is truth beyond that.

But it's a path you'll have to tread for yourself, I can do nothing but say the way is there if you chose to take it. As Above so Below...

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Zepherian]

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by Electro38

 

It is easy if you make distinction between knowledge and belief.
Knowledge is based on clear insight which doesn't need proof.
This can never be confirmed by reason, therefore the confusion. Reason relativizes everything.

I understand what you're saying, but in my opinion it really isn't that "easy".

Lets look at science. In physics there were some theories that were considered common knowledge among physicists. This common knowledge formed their beliefs of the workings of the universe. Later, some of these theories were proven wrong or not completely accurate. This then changed physicists belief in the workings of the universe, these beliefs were based on knowledge and were subjective (modified by their perception).

To me it's not that easy. Knowledge changes, perceptions change. In other words what is perceived as "knowledge" is not always completely accurate.

I wouldn't be so arrogant as to impose my beliefs on anyone. If I truly thought something I knew could help my fellow man I would definitely try to help him/her as much as anyone could.

Whether you're trying to give food to someone starving, or stop the bleeding of someone who is wounded, If your help is rejected you should feel very, very sad. It should not feed your ego and make you feel special, or elite.

reply to post by Electro38

I understand what you're saying, but in my opinion it really isn't that "easy".

Lets look at science. In physics there were some theories that were considered common knowledge among physicists. This common knowledge formed their beliefs of the workings of the universe. Later, some of these theories were proven wrong or not completely accurate. This then changed physicists belief in the workings of the universe, these beliefs were based on knowledge and were subjective (modified by their perception).

To me it's not that easy. Knowledge changes, perceptions change. In other words what is perceived as "knowledge" is not always completely accurate.

It is rather simple, but not easy. Needs great effort (force).

I'm glad you're a physicist

In quantum theory, is there causality? What causes quantum leap?

Or, what are physical characteristics of Force?

Force has no physical characteristics. What we measure is the "effects" of the force within a relative system, am I correct?

Force is abstract and is immeasurable, because you cannot use measure on something abstract.

Now, knowing this is knowledge. It connects physical and metaphysical plane, because Force affects physical world, and how Force does that? I think it is because it "knows how".

You see, if you want to comprehend this, you have to get out from the realm of causality - and there's your answer for the Big Bang theory!

If not, you're stuck at 10 on -44 seconds.

Actually, it is very easy: all you need to do is shake it off! But who will believe that?



P.S.
I distinguish two kinds of knowledge.
1. Knowledge of how things work, the Absolute knowledge, knowledge of the principles.
2. Technical knowledge of concrete manipulation of empirical data.



[edit on 5-3-2009 by DangerDeath]

reply to post by DangerDeath


No, no, I'm not a physicist. (Was just using that as an example).

My argument in this thread was mainly about the OP's attitude, and that I believe the knowledge that many things are fake and manipulative isn't such a special thing.

But then it turned into this philosophical/metaphysical discussion which is very interesting. I think I understand what you said about force "knowing how to" do it's thing. Very interesting, I have to read through your last post a few times before I ask more questions, or can respond to it.

What is meme? And what is the significance of 528Hz?


[edit on 5-3-2009 by Electro38]

reply to post by Electro38


Meme:

"A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another."

The other question about Hz I don't know...

Usually, talking about Hz is talking about resonance, I guess.

Ok, thanks. I've since looked up the significance of 528Hz, as seen on Zepherian's profile comment, very interesting stuff.

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by manganesejolt
Let's just come out and admit that right now, and it will make all our lives much simpler.

When I was at Yale,

I agree with your heading about being Awake.

However - I don't think we agree on what Awake means.

So - did you go to Yale on a scholarship?

It is people with closed minds such as yours that make the task so difficult people give up, and just accept that people have their right to free will, and can no longer fight to save them from themselves.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
This is the exact self absorbed attitude that is creating this society of one mans pain is another mans gain.

reply to post by SoulOrb


I see, so I have a closed mind because I give a damn about my neighbour.

I have a closed mind because I help others without expecting anything in return.

I have a closed mind because I am not ignorant to the suffering that some people on this planet are BORN into.

I have a closed mind because I can see how some have no free will and no rights.

I have a closed mind because I can see if we all adopted your attitude we would all have no rights and no free will.

I have a closed mind because I get things done instead of sitting around waiting for a day when everyone goes, BING, I am awakended to the eternal cosmic realm.

Damn you are one ignorant little person. What goes around comes around.

If I have offended you I humbly apologise oh mighty awakened one.

What a crock of.......



[edit on 6-3-2009 by XXXN3O]

Applause applause, and a standing ovation for XXXN30.
xoxoxo to XXXN30.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by simonecharisse]

reply to post by manganesejolt

Your thesis reminds me of the Parable of the 10 Virgins.

The situation in the world today is proof enough of the fact that mankind has taken the wrong path.

We lost the connection with Earth and the true spiritual nature.

You can deny it all you want.

What he said!

Literally! (or she...)

Walking the path that some people do today and playing gods with their fellow men is to show the world how wrong they are.
But the sheeple just follow their leaders and do not care because they don´t want to care, they just wan´t to wake up every morning and expect that everything is what it always has been for them, sadly enough they´re going to wake up one morning in a very near future and see that the world has changed yet another time.

WE have taken the wrong path and all are guilty because generations just let it happen and did nothing, the few who did were called catars or witches...

Today they´re called retards or claimed to be a menace to society...

No one is above the law and man most certainly can create a million laws, NATURE couldn´t care less...

we can speculate all we want but at this time we won´t change anything without the support of the sheeple.

So the sheeple is lost aswell as the families in the bloodlines, nothing of this can come to a good and happy ending I´m sorry to say.

The few of us that find the true path of nature and survive the upcoming events must for all future teach the next generations to be awake, stay awake and never fall asleep like the world has done today.

History repeats itself...AGAIN...



[edit on 09/3/6 by serenityone]

Ah, but a sleeping man can only be wakened by one who is already awake. Few of us are awake in the beginning. Ignorance is sleep. I think the person that is most conscious is the one upon whom the greater responsibility lies.

If someone hurts me by way of ignorant action, I understand that my reaction will have effects upon his perception of the world. I know that, he does not, therefore I am responsible for the acting of the highest possible expression.

By virtue of being awake we owe those who sleep.

Of course, if you shake them and they still snooze, **** em.

I might also add that I have a three times rule; shake 'em thrice and if they don't come round, call an ambulance.

The growing good of the world is propelled by the grace of those who sacrifice even a small amount for those who do not deserve it or even refuse; all else is animalistic survivalism which has it's place is man's psyche but it is not to our advantage to enshrine it. It is a great servant but a terrible master.


"The man of science himself is fonder of glory, and vain,
An eye well-practised in nature, a spirit bounded and poor" -Tennyson.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by SoulOrb

 

I see, so I have a closed mind because I give a damn about my neighbour.

I have a closed mind because I help others without expecting anything in return.

I have a closed mind because I am not ignorant to the suffering that some people on this planet are BORN into.

I have a closed mind because I can see how some have no free will and no rights.

I have a closed mind because I can see if we all adopted your attitude we would all have no rights and no free will.

I have a closed mind because I get things done instead of sitting around waiting for a day when everyone goes, BING, I am awakended to the eternal cosmic realm.

Damn you are one ignorant little person. What goes around comes around.

If I have offended you I humbly apologise oh mighty awakened one.

What a crock of.......

[edit on 6-3-2009 by XXXN3O]

I agree if you would be fully awake then both the good and bad are revealed, a natural reaction to the bad would be compassion (otherwise madness, indifference is not possible when being awake).

I believe the topic starter is more about being socially awake (and becoming successful in life) contrary to those being socially asleep (those at the bottom who don't yet fully understand how society works), rather than being awake in a cosmic sense, and trying to phase out any feelings of guilt towards those who don't make it.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

I believe the topic starter is more about being socially awake (and becoming successful in life) contrary to those being socially asleep (those at the bottom who don't yet fully understand how society works), rather than being awake in a cosmic sense, and trying to phase out any feelings of guilt towards those who don't make it.

Yes. Completely phasing out any feelings of guilt for taking an active hand in keeping the sleepers sleeping. By manipulating the press, the education system, politics, etc.

Not feeling guilty for achieving power by one set of rules, and then once in power, changing the rules so that no one else can use the same ladder you used to climb up.

If it were just a matter of being in a cell with the door wide open, and yourself escaping while the others stayed in the cell ignoring the door, I would agree. No reason to feel guilty. But when you paint the back of the door to look like a wall, shut the door, lock it, and bar it, I dont think you can take the same "not my fault" attitude.

reply to post by manganesejolt


well - awake, asleep - whatever

I don't respect your opinion

not that you care - clearly - you're above caring

realizing that there's a renewed emphasis on civility - I'm reprimanding myself and editing my own post

you won't miss what was here - but rethinking what I said - I now realize I could have said it better...and it only took me 6 hours to figure that out

I don't respect your opinion - because you've taken a serious topic that could have turned into an incredible discussion - and become one of the more noteworthy threads here at ATS - and made it all about you and your wannabe elitist fantasy

speaking directly from my tediously bleeding heart - my loyalties lie with mankind - in as much as this is where and how I got borned

as for the sheeple - there are many sheeple who, as it turns out - are incredible, warm, wonderful, generous caring people

I kinda dig the sheeple - especially since I am one of them

and whether or not you're up to admitting it - so are you

when referring to the undeserving masses as sheeple - I wonder that no one ever sees in themselves their own fear - and desperate neediness - needing to feel superior and incapable of being fooled

the irony being that in the end you will be used for shoe leather by those very same people so far above us all and "in the know"

the very same people you so admire

I don't respect your opinion - not just because it's arrogant and reeks of indifference - but because it takes away from the discussion we should all be prepared to have:

why do we care about each other - and why should we?

instead you made a rather weak attempt at making yourself look stronger and better than you probably are while trying to goad people into what you thought would turn into a heated and interesting discussion - which many people in this thread went on to have without your help

the only thing left to say - which I did say earlier on - is that I don't believe you are the Yale Man that you pretend to be

some truths really are self evident

[edit on 3/8/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

Note that Gary Trudeau in his Doonsbury comic strip yesterday starts it out with a comment about SKULL AND BONES immediately mentioning the secret society at Yale to which George Bush... (I and II and multiple other presidents, their appointed judges, cabinet members and multifarious other cronies) belonged to and still do.

I wonder how many of them are still in the ruling elite under the O Admin or whether
some of them fled with their bullion to the Caymans and isles of the unknown to git out of dodge while the gittin is good.

It will be interesting to see if Doonsbury develops the SKULL AND BONES theme.

I heard that Trudeau attended Yale.

One of my very best palz attended Yale, a prominent scientist.

There is hope for Yalies!

Let the SKULLS rest in peace as they left society wrecked in pieces.


[edit on 10-3-2009 by EarthShine]

After readin this thread I have a lot more hope. There were so many people willing to help those who are asleep to awake. I found this and maybe it says it best.
"How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant of the weak...and strong. Because someday in your life you will have been all of these."