Those who are Awake have no obligations to those who are asleep.

Although you make a good point I do have to disagree and maybe kinda rephrasing what is said would help.

A lot of what you say depends often on a persons spiritual outlook on life. Although I believe what you have said is true, I say that if we look at the human race, and the world, as a whole... and oneness.. then helping others become awake is just ourselves waking up another part of ourselves.

If my arm is asleep then it is my job to try and wake it up. Although I don't see is as a responsibility, or an obligation, just something to do along my path of life. I cannot, and do not, have the power to awaken anyone, but only remind them of what they already know, but have forgotten along the path on existence.

People have separated them so far from each other emotionally, and spiritually, that they only think of themselves anymore. I don't mean that is wrong, but I see it as a critical error in thinking. Thinking of yourself is fine if you do it in a healthy light. Often we think of ourselves and think no one else matters at all.

Often what we do or don't do for others effects us in a way we don't understand till it's to late. If the many people along my path in life had not helped me, in many ways. well who knows what would have happened with me. If I were to not help others I would not be being truthful to me or them. I would not be honest in saying I want a better world but not contributing to it.

Sometimes helping others is hidden in our not helping them. Which is what enabling is about. You can do what appears to help another, but in reality it doesn't, then it ends up hurting you as well. Remember the saying "You can only keep what you have by giving it away", this helps me a lot.

Although I know the only person than can make choices, and responsibility in my life for me, is me, the truth is many people have helped me. I am glad you are happy in your life (you are happy right??), and you should feel no guilt for your choices to be who you are. I just think that to think of me only and no one else would scream selfishness instead of self-honestly. Personally I would rather be self-honest, no matter how hard it may be.

So in light of what you are saying, I think it's important to know where our responsibilities start and end. Mine start and end with me, and I effect a lot of people, infact every single person I come in contact with in life. No one owes me anything, and I owe no one anything. But if anyone wants help and I can, I do.

Just by posting what you have you have helped me, and in many ways. I am sure this wasn't the intention, but in your trying not to awaken others you have. Thank you and I hope you get what you want in life.

Zaimy..

reply to post by merryxmas


Well, I tend to disagree that he is using the term awake the way you might mean it. You have to ignore large portions of the OP's argument to come to the conclusion that you are.

such as this;

Originally posted by manganesejolt
The "New World Order" ain't new, chief. The same families and bloodlines, the same natural aristocracy (some "college mind slaves" or whatever, others, like Bill Gates, brilliant dropouts but never burnouts) has propped up and animated the world from time immemorial. The only impending difference is that the props will finally be taken away and everything will be seen for what it is.

Those of us who are Awake owe nothing to those who have been unable to wake up before now and should certainly feel no guilt at finally being able to accept the rewards at long last that we have always deserved for our sacrifices. We have been paying for the sleeping world forever, it's time we finally took ownership.

The OP is claiming that those is power deserve to be in power because they are better people (more awake) and that they should not feel guilty at all for taking what is "rightfully theirs" from those who are not in power. (asleep) He is not claiming any spiritual high ground, he is saying that awake=material success, and asleep=poor.

You may be supporting that position, I cant be sure, but you might want to make very sure that is your position before you support it.

reply to post by manganesejolt


'Cows are born to become delicious steaks and shiny boots.'

I wish I could reach the monitor and punch you in the face for saying something as ignorant and small minded as that. You know there is a little place on this plant that holds some 1.2 billion people that would disagree with that comment immensely.

The fact that you say something so stupid shows your own ignorance
iuenly
More ironic/amusing is you speak of 'enlightenment' like you know what such a thing is, and talking negatively about a religious icon where some genuinely DO reach enlightenment!

Now where is my don't feed the troll sign.....

reply to post by Zaimless

People have separated them so far from each other emotionally, and spiritually

IMO, emotions are what separates people and disable spiritual connection (oneness).
Think about it.
You can't feel somebody else's emotions, instead you project your emotions on them, and that results in a whole span of conflicts.
Same applies to ideas. They're both projections disabling oneness.

I am sure I will be posting many times on this thread, it is a very good one, and it is my favorite topic.

I just wanted to point out what a friend once told me.... Soon as a person says they are MORE humble, or enlightened as another... well they are proving themselves wrong in their own statement. Ego hides in many fashions.

Originally posted by merryxmas
I think you're all jumping on him for the wrong reasons. I don't think his intent was to spread selfishness but more along the lines of "if you are awake then don't waste your energy on trying to wake others up if they're not ready. It's not your job and it will cause you a lot of strife and grief." We've all felt this. Can you discuss topics here with all of your friends, family, co-workers? Have you tried? I have and with it comes a lot of grief. Trying to wake others up to the nature of our reality makes you an outsider. People think you're crazy, they join up like a typical mob to make themselves feel better so they can mock you and feel the warm embrace of the hive mind.

To the OP's point. Just be satisfied in that you are awake. Be happy that your eyes are open and realize it's not your place to open other people's eyes. They will open when they are ready or maybe they never will. The most important step is understand these things for yourself. Everyone is on their own path and will come to understanding in this life or the next or the next. It's not your place to rush them. Encouragement if they found the beginning of the path but your energy should remain fixed upon yourself because understanding is only the beginning.

Thank you for saying this, and so well,
I do not feel like wasting energy arguing about wasting energy ot not on "waking" others - Its a waste of energy!

So upon reading the whole thread I have found many themes in common. Money seems to be causing divisions among the people, as it always does. This is an important thing to note, being as some of the most enlightened people are the moneyless guru's. This is a real statement of what money is. Money is a means to an end, and in the end you cannot take money or anything it has bought you with you. You and your spirit will leave this world in the manner it has been living in to this point.

The other thing is the nature of enlightenment. Enlightenment comes in many forms. Some are worldly and some spiritually. My truly large awakenings have come in the light of spiritual enlightenment.

As for people being asleep. Being asleep happens for many reasons, and many people are given the opportunity to awaken, but decide to stay in their spiritual coma's, at least for awhile. To awaken does not change the material world, but it does awaken one to the responsibility to the people and things of this world.

I have a x-friend who use to beat her children, and I mean beat not just spank. It was a continuous happening. She had 4 girls 6 and under. I could only stand this for so long. I turned her in, anonymously. She in turn lied her way out of this. And she found out that I made the call. To this very day she blames it on me that she almost lost her children. She chose to stay asleep.

It was a lot of turmoil for me to make that call, but I did it. She could have used all that information to improve upon herself. But instead she saw it as an attack. She chose to stay the person she was, and she is still that way. She is still sleeping, and what keeps her there is fear.

Fear is a strong motivator to stay asleep. When a person realizes that they are responsible for so much they will run, and run hard.

I think the saddest part of the OP is the Yale statement. This means nothing to me except the person went to school. Millions of people have awoke and never been to Yale. And if I remember correctly Bush went to Yale, and I do not see him as an awakened being. It is just impossible for me.

Although emotions can deter us from coming awake, often they enhance the eternal nowness of the universe. For all we have is now... ever.. there is so other moment. The rest is all illusion and dreams, past and present do not exist in my world. Maybe they did once, but as I write this it is becoming part of a past that is causing me to awaken further into the now.

Be awake now... that's all there is.

Zaimy

reply to post by Zaimless

Although emotions can deter us from coming awake, often they enhance the eternal nowness of the universe. For all we have is now... ever.. there is so other moment. The rest is all illusion and dreams, past and present do not exist in my world. Maybe they did once, but as I write this it is becoming part of a past that is causing me to awaken further into the now.

"Emotional intelligence", like with frendine of yours, is directly opposed to spiritual wake.

I mean, all emotions (ideas = projections) pretend to be the "real thing" and consume our energy to come into being.

Once you understand what they really are, you are awake and you have the means (energy) to put them where they belong.

The trick is to learn how to use your excessive energy before it turns into a drowsiness of daydreaming...

To use it to stay awake.

Because one can slip back easily.

On the level of spirit (force) everything changes. The perspective changes from linear and 3-dimensional to eternal (point everywhere).

From there one can intervene with others and help them, if those manage to, even for a second, retrieve the energy they so readily invest into their precious projections. Then they can deal with the new kind of experience - call it a satori, for an flash like act of understanding.

The fact is, when this starts to happen, this spiritual energy accumulates and makes one more agile, because spiritual force is actually knowledge. And when you have the knowledge, you also have the how-to.

The feeling of joy which accompanies knowledge is not the same as emotion. It is a free energy as opposed to the energy "invested" into a form.

Knowing brings smile to your face even when you are in greatest of troubles. It is not of this world and it can never be deleted by an emotion of loss or by dreadful thoughts, or by fear.

Knowledge of emotions and ideas is the weakest point in modern education. So much is presumed, almost nothing is clear. People are advised to develop and rely on emotions, and in turn they become so dependent on them and waste huge amounts of energy to produce them and keep them going. But, emotions always fail us. As well as our carefully cultivated ideas.

Before one can help others, one must fully understand the full impact of falseness of our civilization, and its roots.

The roots are in divided mind, which forces people to replace their true personality with the projection of ego, an aggregate of projections and nothing more than that.

Top section by OP

Amen.

You are your only obligation. Those of us who are Awake owe nothing to the slumbering herds and should feel nothing for them.

There is no need to "save the world". The world is already in the hands of those who deserve it, those who can run it best, and that will become increasingly obvious in the coming months. The grubsucking masses will come to accept this, or become part of coming pawn exchange/sacrifice.

The WideAwakes will naturally know what to do when it is time to do it.

My Reply

Your lack of compassion for your fellow Man is stagering.How the "mighty" will fall.Do you really think that you are going to survive the next few years.Do you REALLY?!.You will not.I think the best line here is "The Meek will inherit the Earth"You and your ilk are coming to the end of your "reign"as happens with all Dictatorships and Empires.Your elitist view,that somehow because you went to Yale that you are more worthy will be your downfall.Regect all this thinking now.embrace that we are all One and you might survive yet.WAKE UP.


[edit on 2/3/09 by Moreonethananyone]

[edit on 2/3/09 by Moreonethananyone]

It's taken a while to read this entire thread and to ponder the various posts. Many people have made valid and convincing responses.

When I first read the opening post, my initial thought was how much it reminded me of the ideals spouted by the Neo-Tech people. They also believe that there is an entire class of people that deserve to be viewed and used as commodities for the "better class".

Of course, the "better class" always defines themselves as BEING the better class. Those willing to view and use their fellow man as commodities may be considered for recruitment into the privileged ranks.

There is some merit to the OP's stance that those possessing an ideaology need not attempt to keep promoting it but, imho, there is no merit whatsoever in implying that those unwilling or unable to view their fellow man as commodities (tasty steaks and leather) should be relegated to the commodities pile themselves.

I'd like to ask the OP if he was BORN "awake". At what point did you become an enlightened, privileged, awake one? Was it when your Yale professor enlightened you? If so, then your Yale professor was a hypocrite since he believed that "those who are awake (presumably he was referring to himself) have no obligation to those who are asleep" (presumably his students). And yet, there he was, attempting to awaken them.

There is undoubtedly a group of powerful elites that direct the course of human history. They are probably chuckling to themselves regarding the sheer volume of "useful idiots" or enablers they have helping them attain their goals with the promise of reward that will NOT be forthcoming.

If I may be so bold as to suggest that you count yourself in that number of enablers. The true movers and shakers of the world don't have time for ATS. They already know the score. They don't have to try to figure it out. They know what conspiracies exist because they are the conspirators. The very fact that you're here on ATS suggests you are not one of them.

To quote a great man: "He who would be master must be the servant of all."
That is the gold that Plato referred to;the incorruptible "noble" that is able to withstand all the fiery trials and still shine more brightly.

We're all in this sinking boat together and smugly gloating that you've got the only life vest will just get you thrown overboard first.

reply to post by manganesejolt

All my life I struggled with this question, how do I help others to awaken?

My mentor told me I was a seed planter and I was not responsible for ensuring the seeds grew to fruition. Yep, I had trouble with that perspective too.

Now I am almost 50 and I have some understanding that there are those who are simply not ready to hear or see, those who are not ready for any seeds and then there are those who will ask for assistance.

Now I put my efforts into those who ask, as I have wasted enough energy, time and emotional purging on those who do not wish to seek.

As such I now agree with the concept that we are not required to awaken anyone other than ourselves. In doing so we shine more brightly and those who are beginning to see will seek you out and ask.This has made my life's mission far more simple than it was perceived to be 20 or more years ago.

With awakened awareness there comes responsibility, but we are not meant to misunderstand that responsibility and attempt to awaken everyone we meet. We are only meant to Shine, to show by our actions and choices in this world that there are ways to awaken to the higher realities around us. We are not meant to go on a saving everyone crusade, that's been overdone so many times in human history that you would think we have learned the lesson sufficiently by now.

reply to post by Tayesin


Indeed, being a martir is optional.

Personally I do spread some awareness if I can, but if I see eyes glaze over or negative reactions I let it fly. People can't really unhear something, and in these increasingly troubling times, for a lot of them my words will come back into their minds in the future. I just plant seeds, it's up to the environment to enable them to grow, I guess.

The exception was family members, because as the relationship is stronger there is enough leeway there to force some troubling information. The knowledge I got back was that people actually are somewhat awake, most just chose not to participate against organised evil, because they are not aware of how bad things are. I think that once things become bad enough those semiawake people, those that know the structure of society but perhaps are unaware of the extent of the corruption, may yet tip the boat.

One bit of information that has traveled a lot is the nature of fractional reserve banking. This is why I don't think there will be a popular bank run as big as the great depression, because a lot of people know there isn't any real lack of money, just an overextension of interbanking debt, so they may be willing to let the banks die and collect the government garantees than to run to the banks like lemmings and crash the whole system. But time will tell, things are still very much up in the air.

I'm confident things will in the midterm panout ok, there is a lot of grace in the world. Any applied evil on this planet will just generate love as a counter. To an extent the NWO know this, which is why with a recession we are to be hit by some sort of bluebeam like mass mind manipulation project intent on seeding a new religion. They know that money and power are not enough to slave humanity and that technology is a bit of a wildcard. They want to control a one world religion, the writing for that is also on the wall.

The thing about the information age is that information is outpacing the efforts of those trying to contain it...

Originally posted by Zaimless

Fear is a strong motivator to stay asleep. When a person realizes that they are responsible for so much they will run, and run hard.

I agree. Except I suspect that many people others call "asleep" arent really sleeping at all. They are wide awake, under the blankets, scared to death of what may be out there, going "la la la Im not listening to you......"

And you are absolutely right about the ego-awake thing.

I think Socrates saying about wisdom sums up the truth about enlightenment as well. Socrates, after being told the Oracle at Delphi had said that he was the wisest of all men, decided to find out how that could be. He questioned all the wisest people of his day, and in the end declared that the only thing that he could see that made him wiser was that he alone knew he didnt know.

I think enlightenment is much the same.

What alot of you are also missing is that obligation shouldn't necessarily precede acts of good will anyway. People do good things for other people because it gives them a good feeling. Not because of necessity or obligation. How can you honestly be "awake" (whatever that means) and only act on you obligations in the first place? That isn't how people make the world better and that doesn't sound like someone "awake" to me..

-ChriS

Those who would try to rationalize away their responsibility to others are not truly awakened, or enlightened individuals.


It is an inhumane thought, which makes the thinker inhuman.

I dreampt a dream that I was superman and could fly above the storm while the mere mortals suffered and perished below! Foolish mortals!


If you do not comprhend my meaning, give your statement context.

Presume your family are sleeping and your house is burning down. Surely one as great and awake as yourself has no obligation to try and save those pathetic sleepers! Let them burn. Save yourself. Maybe it is you who are dreaming, while they are leaving. It gets so hard to tell sometimes.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by Cyberbian]

Critical to this problem is brainwashing and conditioning.
You have all noticed that most common reaction to an attempt of waking someone is aggressive.

This is because emotions and ideas consume energy, and when you attempt to remove those emotions and ideas (projections) in others, this energy is released.

The problem is that people have never learned to deal with free energy, which can only be dealt with in a creative way. Instead, they immediately use it to create another emotion, like "anger", "fear", "disgust", whichever. That in turn completely disables possible communication with them.

Training people to be creative (to not react automatically by following protocols) is replaced by exactly the opposite. And then, after years of such conditioning, it is practically impossible to make them realize where lies the mistake. If you point that out, you are immediately shut up.

Freed energy in human beings is always experienced as anxiety. That is a very unpleasant feeling. The reaction is typically conditioned: run for salvation into anything that will retrieve "pleasure", "fun", "relaxation". There is absolutely no attempt to give some serious thought, to contemplate on what is really going on with oneself.

This can only be corrected, on personal and social level, especially on social level, if this kind of training (meditation) is attempted early, in childhood, and for that, unfortunately there is no will in the first place, and not enough qualified teachers.

Originally posted by Tayesin
reply to post by manganesejolt

 

All my life I struggled with this question, how do I help others to awaken?

Pour a bucket of cold water over their heads!

Ok, this is how you do it, if someone throws a rock at you, throw a bread back at them. Then share to them what makes you tick!

But basically, if people are getting everything they want and living life to the full, it's going to be next to impossible waking them up.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by ahnggk]

RE: Skull and Bones and Bohemian Grove, there certainly are members who belong to both cabals including, notably, former Presidents.

In July, 2000, Alex Jones infiltrated their bizarre ritual with a friend and two hidden video cameras. I have seen the video. See PrisonPlanet.com or InfoWars.com It is also available at You Tube – Dark Secrets Inside Bohemia Grove.

(July is the month many world leaders including government officials, oil company magnates and media reps have met for 130 years most of them in the Sonoma redwoods.)

They saw men (it is a MALE ONLY event) engaged in a pagan like ritual including fake human sacrifice to a 40 ft. stone owl, the Canaan deity god of Moloch (Molech).

Jones said that Bush was not in one of the highest prestige lodges, his was called the Hillbillies.

Google Bush and Bohemian Grove to find a transcript of what transpired at B Grove replete with images of death, skulls, men dressed in red and black robes, LECTURES and lots of alcohol imbibing.

Bush is a member of the Bohemian Grove _cult_.

Bush and his Poppy are also both members of the Skull and Bones Club at Yale.

The Manhattan Project was reportedly hatched in Bohemian Grove.

The greatest men’s party on earth at Bohemian Grove is apparently rampant
with homosexuality according to an employee who spilled the beans a few years ago.

See TrineDay.com for the definitive books about Skull and Bones - AMERICA'S most powerful secret society - and the Secret History of America, starting with Antony Sutton's pivotal research.

I wonder if elitism is a characteristic of Yalies. I knew a woman who had attended Yale and later ended up teaching at a major Southern university where she was the only full time woman professor in a graduate liberal arts department that had 69 (that WAS the exact number) full time MALE professors.

This _elite_ Yale graduate having arrived in the hallowed ivy halls of academia did not want any more women in the department.

Talk about the token woman syndrome....

Well, if it is an elite man’s world with secret rituals, we know where to aim the pitchforks when Paul Revere rings the liberty bell.

I kind of agree with that stuff about flying, but I am not asleep and ever since I woke up years ago... I have been in a constant and perpetual state of awakening and enlightenment. It can be likened to the sun perpetually rising above the horizon of the morning, and never being the same from moment to moment. Those of great strength can rise up to fly even when the surrounding toils of life try to tear you down to their level. One cannot rise without fall. In order to shine we must first illuminate. In order to wake up one must be "awakened". He who is awake must in turn "wake the dead."

thank you for the look see at the grove, yalies and skull and bones. but the sexual orientation of people dont really bother or concern me. just what they plan on doing with the knowledge they aquired while they were there. anyone else ever make it into the grove? 2 stories does not the truth make.