Candle And Soap Making

Am I the only one thinking lye could be used defensively?

I only say that because I wouldn't want anyone to think of using it offensively.

reply to post by Nirgal


Theoretically yes, but how? Just trust me when i say you don't want to be throwing this stuff around. It will probably land on you and hurt you as much as your attacker.

Just don't mess about with the stuff, that's all i'm saying.

Many thanks to the OP for posting this. It is something that my partner and I have been saying for some time now that all the old (survival) skills are being lost.

This also includes spinning and weaving and making dyes, and knowledge of medicianal herbs and knowledge of which plants in the field and hedgerow are edible and which are not.

All of this is critical knowledge, not just in a survival scenario, but because the less we have depend upon others to provide our daily requirements the less dependent we are upon business and the State.

Knowledge of this sort of thing is not just useful, it is liberation.

Originally posted by PuterMan
Many thanks to the OP for posting this. It is something that my partner and I have been saying for some time now that all the old (survival) skills are being lost.

You know i'm only 23 and i also worry about this. As time goes by the old skills are less important and many have already become extinct. However keeping certain things alive is definitely worth while. Luckily there are many books out there to explain survival techniques, edible and medicinal plants.

There are however small pockets of survival knowledge that are being lost. Certain skills, local to environments and held by only certain old tribes that are quickly being forgotten. It's a great shame, i wonder how many people here in the UK know that woad can create a vibrant blue dye? Or that pine resin can act as a makeshift candle, is mildly antiseptic and has other uses? I wonder how many know that birch bark can be used to make canoes, waterproof containers and other things.

Originally posted by PuterMan
This also includes spinning and weaving and making dyes, and knowledge of medicinal herbs and knowledge of which plants in the field and hedgerow are edible and which are not.

I think most people would be able to work out spinning and weaving, it wouldn't be as refined as current knowledge of course. Rope and string making is another thing i know about and actually still practice. Each year instead of buying tons of garden twine i actually make it from a large patch of nettles i leave to grow. The great thing about it is that it's extremely strong and will break down after it's used and not pollute my growing area.

Originally posted by PuterMan
Knowledge of this sort of thing is not just useful, it is liberation.

This i would agree with wholeheartedly. The sad fact is that many people today are wholly dependent on the system. If everything failed tomorrow, if millions died from a virus or some other thing then it isn't the virus that would kill most people. Here in the UK it is thought that 40 million people may die because they wouldn't have access to basic services, food, water, medical, heating etc. 40 million unable to understand enough to look after themselves. Shocking.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I have to say I applaud someone of your tender years being interested in this! I am not quite as young (unfortunately) - 61 in April - and have been interested in the herbal/food side of this for many years.

At school we learnt about Woad, herb of my forefathers being of Welsh origins, but how many of the people who know that it can be used as a dye know what the plant looks like?

Back to topic, do you happen to know which part of the tree produces the caustic soda after burning? I have many 'sally' trees - the willow that is a weed, which grow in profusion. Being Salix, the bark has it's uses, but I am wondering if removing the bark before burning would be detrimental to the lye production?

Additionally what sort of volume of wood do you need to produce, for example, enough lye to make 10 Kg of soap?

[edit on 28/2/2009 by PuterMan]

reply to post by PuterMan


Hardwood ash, bark contains little lye that i am aware of but you may as well burn it and add to the mix. The quantity depends on the tree burnt and i don't know of any research that has listed the amount of lye per tree by volume of ash i'm afraid. It would also depend upon the ground in which it is grown as some soils would provide more lye constituents than others.

As i made out it's a very hit and miss process. It can only be gained through experience with manufacturing the soaps. What people must be clear of is that the soap produced isn't the lovely white or pink you get in your bathroom. It's a brown colour, but it does clean very nicely and so would be tradeable.

If anyone tries these techniques then i want you again to please heed my advice and produce a slightly greasy soap as this indicates all the lye has been neutralised and also test the soap by rubbing a small amount into the underside of your forearm and leaving it for an hour to wait for any reaction.

Care should always be taken.

Thank you soooo much for the soap instructions! I looked around briefly online and all I could find were directions for how to make luxury soaps using modern ingredients. I really appreciate knowing how to make soap with nothing but the basics, like they did in the old days.

If it ever becomes necessary, at least I will have the information.

reply to post by PuterMan


You may extract aspirin-like ingredients from salix [salicylic acid esters like wintergreen] before burning without changing the alkali content much. You can also burn grasses and other plants high in potassium for 'potash.' The problems will be quantities needed to make significant amounts and supplies of the other ingredients, fats and oils. Plant oils can be converted to soaps but in dire times, they will be food. Animals will be too valuable to kill or declining in the wild.
As an alternative lye production method, a solar panel can provide enough power to make small amounts of hydrogen, chlorine and lye by electrolyzing salt water. Chlorine and lye will also make bleach, an antiseptic agent important for disease control. I say this because wood may become harder to get as more people use it. Clear-cut forests will also not support the wildlife you need as food. Remember that the "good old days" were rather harsh and the technology would only support about 10-15% of the current population.
Even the Amish use modern goods.

reply to post by pteridine


Thanks for that. Very interesting. Of course there is also the fact that we would not need as much soap, as the current modern practice of excessive bathing would indeed be counter productive and detrimental to potential food supplies. The trillions of protective bacteria on the skin will be delighted!!

10 to 15% - sounds about right if 40 million of the UK's 60 million would not survive.

reply to post by pteridine


Sightly off topic but i want to address it. Salicylic acid can and will upset the stomach in it's raw form. People used to chew willow bark for it's pain relieving effects. However this would often lead to being curled up with stomach cramps, vomiting and even stomach ulcers.

It should be noted that concentrated salicylic acid, approximately 5% solution can be used to treat verrucas and warts. It will turn the skin white when applied. Simply boil willow bark to a thick syrup, then boil it again in water, then boil it a third time and you are left with a pretty concentrated solution. Try not to apply it to healthy skin.

reply to post by PuterMan


I cannot express my upset that it is theorized so many people would die without basic services. The sad fact of our world is that without industrial fertilizers we could only feed around 3 billion people on earth according to Normal belog (spelling may be incorrect) and he's a noble prize winner who is claimed to have saved 1 billion people with his cross fertilization methods.

I also agree that our current world is obsessed with bathing to extremes. You know supermodels give tips that they only wash their hair once every 2 to 3 days as over washng destroys it? The same could be said for the skin in my opinion. Every time you wash it you destroy the oils that have evolved to moisturize it!

Being clean is basic, being hyper clean is damaging to your skin and often invites infection. I myself know from experience that over washing causes infections. Any teenager with spots can attest to this. If you wash everyday you will often end up with more spots and more infected spots. Wash every 3 days and your spots will decrease.

Anyway back to the thread. Soaps even in their most basic forms will be tradeable, as will candles. I mentioned a mass production method of producing candles in my original post. It is one i witnessed on a school trip as a kid to the black country museum. It was fascinating to see how they did it back then, with nothing more than hand power, mechanical knowledge and charcoal to heat the fat.

Another thing to consider when making supplies to clean yourself is that most natural herbs have cleaning and disinfecting properties and can easily be blended with various forms of oils.
Three right off the top of my head are chamomile cleans and disinfects one of the strongest in the world. Rosemary and mint are great for cleaning and muscle ache's. ( Use fresh rosemary and mint in very small amounts. To much can aggravate the pores. Raise up the amounts slowly till you get a good blend for your skin type.) All three can be used with any oils or fats.
But if chamomile is used for cuts or sores it should be placed in a cloth and steeped in hot water ( about 10 minutes) then laid on the area. Adding more warm water to it as it cools for about 15 minutes. Then your done and have a VERY clean area to dress...

I cannot express my upset that it is theorized so many people would die without basic services. The sad fact of our world is that without industrial fertilizers we could only feed around 3 billion people on earth according to Normal belog (spelling may be incorrect) and he's a noble prize winner who is claimed to have saved 1 billion people with his cross fertilization methods.

I doubt it. Lets do a simple calculations.

According to this BBC program www.bbc.co.uk... (look for 41st minute)

By using Permaculture techniques a maximum yield would feed 10people from acre.

Lets assume more pessimistic scenario - 5 people per acre.

Now. The size of the Europe (not EU) is roughly 211 mil acres. Multiply it 5 times = Europe can feed more than 1bil people> the population of Europe (not EU) is 0.7bil.

Conclusion - take away infertile mountains - Europe can be self sufficient.

Lets look on a global scale.

Earth surface area is 37 bill acres.
Population is 7 bil

Every person can have at least 5 acres of land.

Take away Antarctic and Greenland (-5.5bil acres - 0.5bil acres = - 6bil acres). 37-6=31bil acres
Mountainous area of Earth is 24% = 23 bil acres.

That makes 23/7=more than 3 acres each.

Even though Permaculture allows growing food in dessert. lets take away deserts 30% = roughly 15 bil acres.

Now cold climates - Northern Siberia and Northern Canada = rougly 2.5 bil acres + 3.2 bil acres = 5.7 bil acres. Lets say you cannot grow much on the the 1/2 of it = 3 bil acres.

15 bil - 3 bil = 12 bil acres.

So we can grow stuff on 12 bil acres - lots of it is all year around - some of it one season.

7bil people can have nearly 2 acres of usable land each.

Let me remind you - one acre can feed up to 10 people.

So the earth feeding capacity can be up to 24 billion people.

If we invade deserts with Permaculture methods we can feed even more.

Obviously we are talking about feeding the world - not luxurious lifestyles

However Permacuilture means that wildlife will be thriving.

Enjoy living on this beautiful Earth.

Deny any claims that Earth is overpopulated and we need population reduction.



[edit on 28-2-2009 by FIFIGI]