Time Travel Paradox

ok ok iv taken my painkillers so that should stop the head aches of paradox's
right ur question on how u cant change the future is the simple fact that even though u think u have a choice u dont.
if type "" instead of """ then there are conciquences but heres the confusing part u may of decided that u done that and have changed the future but in the future u havnt changed anything so really no matter what u do ur just keeping to the course
i think if we invented timetravel we just wouldnt use it i mean imagine going back and killing hitler if uv played red alert 1 then u can c what might happen there is nothing small in timetravel

one thing that puzzles me is that if the worm hole was fixed to one point and place in time then why didn't the rescue team sent back arrive at the same time that Billy connolly (I forget the characters name) arrived on his original journey through time? It means that the point at which the wormhole meets the 14th century was moving forwards. This is one flaw that I can see in the story and yes I agree there are loads of holes in this time-travelling movie, I still enjoyed it none the less.

Again, devilwasp, assuming time is a straight line, that would be accurate. However, you haven't addressed the branched theory, which is discussed here. There are many many more, cyclacle, circular, copenhagen's collapse, relativity, and many many more. It's something that deserves a lot of theories, because we don't have the capabilities to test them effectively. I think someone actually mentioned copenhagen's collapse here, too, so we're going to have to defend our positions against that, too, which I can't. I think both a branched and collapsing timeline are plausable.

well i know nature tries to make everything as round as possible but how the **** can time be in a circle ?
theres the past present future in that order in a line otherwise ur saying that the future leads to the past
hmm interesting

Originally posted by pantha
one thing that puzzles me is that if the worm hole was fixed to one point and place in time then why didn't the rescue team sent back arrive at the same time that Billy connolly (I forget the characters name) arrived on his original journey through time? It means that the point at which the wormhole meets the 14th century was moving forwards. This is one flaw that I can see in the story and yes I agree there are loads of holes in this time-travelling movie, I still enjoyed it none the less.

He was great in Head of the Class, wasn't he?

To your point, there are also multiple theories on wormholes, and the few that believe it can pass through time have a couple of contentions. Some believe that it would stay static. You have a window in the present, and you have a window in the past. You miss it, you're boned. However, others believe that wormholes are like a bridge. It has a set distance, and as time goes on, the wormhole stays in the "present", but the other end has to continually move forward to keep up with the "present", since we're also moving forward in time. Chriton did his research before he wrote the book, and chose the theories that worked best for his story.

Originally posted by devilwasp
well i know nature tries to make everything as round as possible but how the **** can time be in a circle ?
theres the past present future in that order in a line otherwise ur saying that the future leads to the past
hmm interesting

There's a past present future for us, here, who live in the third dimention. What would a 2 dimentional object think about us? If it ever jumped, everything it knew would be gone. When we would say "up" the term would be totally alien to the creature. The 4th dimention is time, and it's believed the universe not only exists in the 4th dimension, but the 8th. For more info on this, do a google search on octions, it's off topic for this thread.

Originally posted by junglejake
I love temporal physics!

And on that note... Physics can not prove time exist. The more physics advances the less time looks like it is something real.

It is a human perception as far as physics is concerned. One event AFTER another doesn't exist in physics. Only entropy shows a linear flow through "time".

However this percieved thing called time is effected by physical laws. For example relativity. Rate is something that applies, a fast moving heavy atom decays faster than a slow one. But did time really pass? Is there such a thing as time? To the best of my knowledge there is no temporal physics, because we have yet to even know time is a fact.

Physics describes states of energy and space. Our preception of time is tied to space. But time as in past, present, and future is not a scientific fact, its just a shared human preception.

Ahhhh right , the wormholes like bridges theory explains it well, it now makes a lot more sense to me, thank you for your reply

i hate temporal physics it gives u terrible head aches

I have one thing to add though, its possible to travel into the future as much as you want to, but its not possible to travel back in the past.

Okay, but which future would you travel into?

Devilwasp, ever read The Watchmen by Alan Moore?

Why couldn't time be a circle, a really big circle or a three dimensional sphere?

The hopi think life is a circle.

Spiderj

na i never read a book called the watcher
am really unsure where my knowlodge of temporal phys comes from
oh well
besides y would u want to change the past ?

Not the watcher the watchmen.

There's a character in it named Dr. Manhatten who exists in a world knowing the future, actually has futre conversations in the present.

Tachyons screw him up though.

It's not technically a book, but a graphic novel and considered one of the all time greats, though it was written by one of the all time greats so there you go.

I think you'd appreciate it.

Spiderj

hmm may need to look it up any way im away for a nite before the painkillers wear off uh oh
i think thier wearing off im outa here

you make a decision which is required to keep the timeline. aware of this you decide to not make the decisions however that is indeed what is required to keep the timeline. its not predistiny, its still free will however that free will leads to the eventuality which would be already known

I always like to throw this in whenever people get talking about Time Travel Paradoxes and so stuff. Some of you may have come across it before, but for those who haven't, you'll never forget it. I've read it a few times and I still get a kick out of it!!

Perhaps the craziest of the time travel paradoxes was cooked up by Robert Heinlein in his classic short story "All You Zombies."

A baby girl is mysteriously dropped off at an orphanage in Cleveland in 1945. "Jane" grows up lonely and dejected, not knowing who her parents are, until one day in 1963 she is strangely attracted to a drifter. She falls in love with him. But just when things are finally looking up for Jane, a series of disasters strike. First, she becomes pregnant by the drifter, who then disappears. Second, during the complicated delivery, doctors find that Jane has both sets of sex organs, and to save her life, they are forced to surgically convert "her" to a "him." Finally, a mysterious stranger kidnaps her baby from the delivery room.

Reeling from these disasters, rejected by society, scorned by fate, "he" becomes a drunkard and drifter. Not only has Jane lost her parents and her lover, but he has lost his only child as well. Years later, in 1970, he stumbles into a lonely bar, called Pop's Place, and spills out his pathetic story to an elderly bartender. The sympathetic bartender offers the drifter the chance to avenge the stranger who left her pregnant and abandoned, on the condition that he join the "time travelers corps." Both of them enter a time machine, and the bartender drops off the drifter in 1963. The drifter is strangely attracted to a young orphan woman, who subsequently becomes pregnant.

The bartender then goes forward 9 months, kidnaps the baby girl from the hospital, and drops off the baby in an orphanage back in 1945. Then the bartender drops off the thoroughly confused drifter in 1985, to enlist in the time travelers corps. The drifter eventually gets his life together, becomes a respected and elderly member of the time travelers corps, and then disguises himself as a bartender and has his most difficult mission: a date with destiny, meeting a certain drifter at Pop's Place in 1970.

The question is: Who is Jane's mother, father, grandfather, grand mother, son, daughter, granddaughter, and grandson? The girl, the drifter, and the bartender, of course, are all the same person. These paradoxes can made your head spin, especially if you try to untangle Jane's twisted parentage. If we drawJane's family tree, we find that all the branches are curled inward back on themselves, as in a circle. We come to the astonishing conclusion that she is her own mother and father! She is an entire family tree unto herself.

ha excellent
man thats guys a genius
oh heres 1
if u go backl and murder ur grandfather u will not have exsisted BUT how could u kill him if u didnt exsist ?

heres a simpler one:

You build a time machine and after admiring it for a few hours and getting up the courage to use it you set it for a few minutes earlier. When you arrive you invite youself to go back another few minutes and so on untill you have an army of yourself.

Time is a measure of events, so how can you travel 'through' time as if it were a spatial dimension.
Lets say you CAN travel though time. Your going back in time(or forward) but you would only be doing so relative to you because there is no such thing as universal time. So how would one define such a relative time when traveling back and forwards in it.

I think that the furutre is entirely predetermined. Armed with this knowledge, you make a concious decision to try and change the future by doing some ranodm action, but this would have been predetermined, because me posting this would also have been predetermined in affecting you. No matter what you do, everything has been predetermined. For more, read Stephen Hawkings Black holes and baby universes, it has it in there somewhere(a whole chapter dedicated to it).

There is one time-line, because as you are traveling back into the future, you are still travelling forwards in time to get there, so your travelling back in time is the future (soon to be past) but only relative to you as the rest of the worls wont notice anything, so time traveling would seriously screw up the universe in ageing i would think.

I Wonder What People Did Think Of The First Motor
Vehicle?? I Bet You Would Turn A Few Head's If You
Went Through Time In A Dodge Viper!

I think all you guys should wake upto the reality of the namy world Hypthesis:
Read-Professor David Deutsch
many worlds-www.qubit.org...

and take a little time to research the experimental confirmation of his work all over the world!