Do we need a spiritual leader for 2012 and beyond?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Spirituality is not and should not be defined by religion but by principles of moral conduct. Which does not imply submission to evil but it does mean trying to live by The Golden Rule.

But whose Golden Rule? Mine or yours? Some religions are tolerant of violence and subjugation of women...are they to be allowed to continue in the coming spiritual awakening?

That would not be a true spiritual leader.

Sounds more like a politician.

Well, if you allow ALL the religions to thrive a universal spiritual leader is going to have to function as a politician because those who are religious are never going to be on the same page!

There are many corrupt elements that are not religious just as there are corrupt religious elements. The focus should be on the cultivation of spiritual values.

I agree completely, and I think a fantastic start would be burning down every mosque, church, temple, synagogue, and anything that ascribes spirituality to a deity and a code of laws.

Those of us who have had our minds opened know that spiritual force has no name or creed and lives in every single one of us and permeates the cosmos. Post-2012, those who need to follow a personified deity and a creed can either learn to adapt and awaken - or they can find themselves "left behind" - as the Christian bigots are so fond of telling us we're going to be if we don't get on the ball with their Apocalypse Survival Plan.

Religions and religious people are holding the spiritual and scientific evolution of our species back. It is a historical imperative to stamp them out from the face of the earth.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Spirituality is not and should not be defined by religion but by principles of moral conduct. Which does not imply submission to evil but it does mean trying to live by The Golden Rule.

All your points make perfect sense to me.

I just don't like using the term Moral conduct. Actually - in my opinion - the word Moral has been the most over used and abused word - - specifically in the last 8 years.

Can we use - Higher Order - or Evolved - or Enlightenment.

Moral/Morality - brings about negative thoughts of judgment to me.

What about Enlightened Personal Responsibility.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
But whose Golden Rule? Mine or yours? Some religions are tolerant of violence and subjugation of women...are they to be allowed to continue in the coming spiritual awakening?

Our Golden Rule. The same for everyone.

The religions that are tolerant of violence and subjugation of women -- I think we both are thinking of the same one -- are not following the precepts of The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
...if you allow ALL the religions to thrive a universal spiritual leader is going to have to function as a politician because those who are religious are never going to be on the same page!

A true spiritual leader would not sacrifice principle to placate any religious or political group that does not strive to be on the same page. You are never going to please everybody but that is what a true spiritual leader is -- to be for the people but not of the people.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
There are many corrupt elements that are not religious just as there are corrupt religious elements. The focus should be on the cultivation of spiritual values.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
I agree completely, and I think a fantastic start would be burning down every mosque, church, temple, synagogue, and anything that ascribes spirituality to a deity and a code of laws.

The best way is to start a society that adheres to the principles of The Golden Rule and to defend oneself whenever necessary. To indiscriminately burn down all buildings of worship does not adhere to The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
Those of us who have had our minds opened know that spiritual force has no name or creed and lives in every single one of us and permeates the cosmos. Post-2012, those who need to follow a personified deity and a creed can either learn to adapt and awaken - or they can find themselves "left behind" - as the Christian bigots are so fond of telling us we're going to be if we don't get on the ball with their Apocalypse Survival Plan.

It may seem that Christianity is a big problem but in truth it has greatly lessened in membership around the world, in part because Jesus never came to rule (or at all) as many espoused would happen. Another reason is Christian pedophilia. The real threat is therefore not Christendom or even fundamentalist Christianity, but fundamentalist religions and nations that are imperialistic, which denigrate women, and which further violence toward non-believers and/or non-citizens.

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
Religions and religious people are holding the spiritual and scientific evolution of our species back. It is a historical imperative to stamp them out from the face of the earth.

The lack of spirituality is not just a problem within traditional non-traditional religions but is widespread across the general population. A cultivation of spiritual values is what is needed, not the genocide of religious people and destroying their places of worship.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Spirituality is not and should not be defined by religion but by principles of moral conduct. Which does not imply submission to evil but it does mean trying to live by The Golden Rule.

Originally posted by Annee
All your points make perfect sense to me.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Annee
I just don't like using the term Moral conduct. Actually - in my opinion - the word Moral has been the most over used and abused word - - specifically in the last 8 years.

Can we use - Higher Order - or Evolved - or Enlightenment.

Moral/Morality - brings about negative thoughts of judgment to me.

What about Enlightened Personal Responsibility.

Enlightened Personal Responsibility (in striving to live by The Golden Rule) works for me

We can shorten it to the acronym EPR.

That's all well and good, but if we allow religions to continue, at least the two that I know you and I have on the brain - they both have directives to minister and to proselytize. They will be a disruption in the future and must be dealt with...otherwise we're going to have another government founded on their principles, and who knows what would have happened if David Koresh had decided to come out and forcibly convert the ATF by fire?

The only thing missing from WACO was that both sides weren't incinerated.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Enlightened Personal Responsibility (in striving to live by The Golden Rule) works for me

We can shorten it to the acronym EPR.

works for me.

So is the Golden Rule - Do no harm - or is there also action involved?

My mom always said: Some people who get stopped at Heaven's Gate - are surprised that there are really 2 books. 1. The Good Book (I did nothing wrong - I prayed all the time - I lived in fear of making a mistake) - 2. The Action Book (but what action did you take to make your world a better place? What action did you take to help your fellow man?)

If you're just "good" - is that enough? Are you "good" because you follow a leader? Or are you "good" because of independent actions you take in caring for your fellow man.

I think we have to understand what Spiritual leader means - first. And/Or if we are our own leaders of the Golden Rule - - what does that really mean?

Originally posted by xxxJClarkxxx
That's all well and good, but if we allow religions to continue, at least the two that I know you and I have on the brain - they both have directives to minister and to proselytize. They will be a disruption in the future and must be dealt with...otherwise we're going to have another government founded on their principles, and who knows what would have happened if David Koresh had decided to come out and forcibly convert the ATF by fire?

The only thing missing from WACO was that both sides weren't incinerated.

David Koresh did not have the ability to convert the ATF by fire. The energies of Christianity are weakening all over the world while the energies of Islam (along with the Jihadist facets) are slowly strengthening in the overall sense.

The US is not in danger of being taken over by Christian fundamentalists. We are more in danger of spiraling down economically (which has already started) and becoming a socialistic state with a weakened military unable to adequately defend the nation. Opening the door for Red China and its allies to invade us in the not-too-distant future.

You think that Christian fundamentalists would be a problem in ruling this nation?

Try living under the communist rule of a foreign power

You would thereby have the slaughter you desire of all churches and temples -- as they have already done to many Tibetans and their churches.

Resulting in a totalitarian regime that does not permit any religion, much less spirituality, to exist at all.

i dont mean to change anyones person beliefs or force my opinions on anyone
but i myself belive that maybe the world ends in 2012 but u need not a spiritual leader
religion is fake
the god himself was envented by the jewish around 600 years before christ
im just saying that religion is not for the after life
but only to put faith in the areas that require it
such as when there is war or other such hardships

and to my first comment above apocalypes doesnt mean the end of the world it means
the uncovery of secrets

Annee,

You bring up some excellent questions of interpretation.

Originally posted by Annee
So is the Golden Rule - Do no harm - or is there also action involved?

My mom always said: Some people who get stopped at Heaven's Gate - are surprised that there are really 2 books. 1. The Good Book (I did nothing wrong - I prayed all the time - I lived in fear of making a mistake) - 2. The Action Book (but what action did you take to make your world a better place? What action did you take to help your fellow man?)

If you're just "good" - is that enough? Are you "good" because you follow a leader? Or are you "good" because of independent actions you take in caring for your fellow man.

I think we have to understand what Spiritual leader means - first. And/Or if we are our own leaders of the Golden Rule - - what does that really mean?

Striving to live by The Golden Rule means trying to treat others as you wish to treated. But it does not mean being submissive to evil as it is within spiritual parameters to defend oneself whenever necessary. It is a service in itself to defend innocents, and this includes oneself and one's family, as well as one's nation.

You are not "good" for following a leader per se, unless what you do in the process of following that person is inherently good itself.

Hmmm....The Good Book and The Action Book. Interesting perspective you have there.

To be A Light Onto Oneself means that you take personal responsibility for your actions (to the best of your ability), that you strive to live ethically, that you try and serve others in some way, and that you are open to learning how to raise your consciousness. All of which is geared to improve upon the basic human condition.

People have debated what living a spiritual life entails for time immemorial.

Thanks Paul_Richard. Good debate.

I was thinking "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" - - but then I remembered this date I had . . . .

I'll leave you with this: "The ripples make the pond - the pond does not make the ripples"

All revolutions require sacrifice. And someone is going to have to make those difficult decisions in the best interest of the spiritual genesis of our species. That person will be decried as a butcher, as a slaughterer, but it is going to be that person who will cut away the dead growth that will allow our species to thrive.

And I don't desire the slaughter of all religious people...I want them to abandon their beliefs - or at least the ones that require mass proselytization (sp?) of non-believers. Unfortunately when you have things like Fundamentalist Christianity and its deeply-ingrained and unshakable faith in the unerrancy of the fraudulent King James Bible - and Islam with its restrictive Sharia rules...you begin to realize that some sacrifices will have to be made.

If Jim Bob Duggar is not the mother to us all then i don't know who is, but remember you can buy these auto parts at any of the zalinsky retail outlets worldwide

Yes,

this leader will be called the antichrist, the beast or whatever my 2 cents.... do not be decieved by this awakening, enlightenment or whatever new age philosophy is out there. It is all a deception from the truth to unite the world under one government and 1 religion. "One light many lamps" is a poitically correct deception to sway you from the truth. That truth is that Jesus Christ is God's son and was given to us as a sacrifice for our sins. It's simple love in the purest form. Any good parent would do the same for their children.

Originally posted by TNT13
reply to post by prevenge

 

Finally exactly what I said in the first post(although not worded the same), Thank you Prevenge, thank you.

[edit on 24-2-2009 by TNT13]

lol then reward my pavlovian ATS conditioning with a star on my post!!!!


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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
We have one already, he is the Lord, and his name is Jesus Christ.
Yes, you do need him, as does everyone else. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

Absolutely, and we will probably have him by then, or very soon.

We definitely need a SPIRITUAL leader, and no-one in the world qualifies, as far as I know.

Peace and love.

reply to post by universe attracts wisdom


You are a genius.

not leaders.

spiritual seeking requires individuals willing to find their own path. because there are many ways and they won't all fit for all. Because we are all different (to the disadvantage of NWO spending so much energy trying -with great but not full success- to format our minds, note)

But it might be tricky to not get lost on your own way, especially as you don't know for sure how to go where you want to go (illumination say);

so from time to time, teachers that will act as guides only, showing you the exit when you are engaged on a dead-end path (too much meditation without having achieved a good mental balance and a pure heart say for example), are also required,
making things easier for you, but never ever leading you as you lead a sheep.

true teachers unanimously recognized as higher conscious beings, not leaders.

print the difference. We need society to recognize god in people not to designate/chose one to lead it (nowhere as usual) without knowing WHY.

This means putting the sheeple in the conditions where they can see by themselves : smash your TV, Radio, burn newspapers, educate your kids in a way so they will learn by themselves how to grow their consciousness, stimulate your friends and family so they question their actions...
everyone must help, but just forget about the governments or any kind of state to look after this for you instead of YOU.

unless you want to have the life of a sheep, DIY !

(edit spelling)

[edit on 25-2-2009 by ::.mika.::]

reply to post by Annee


consciousness is the word you are looking for (moral tends to make act people not really knowing why, just admitting without questioning)

isn't it?

(ps:great to read some free minds here in this thread)

Love is the golden rule

and this one doesn't belong to anyone mind, it is the all of our souls that belongs to it