Think it's easy creating everything ?

Sorry for not getting back to this thread right away. I had some things to take care of. I know the topic demands my fullest attention and I thought it best to deal with what I had to before really trying to write for this thread...

Let me bring myself back to speed after reading the posts.

A few of the parameters I am working from are:

1. God is perfect and could do no wrong. Everything done is out of love...
2. At the point of creation, seeing everything, down to the smallest detail God still created...He seen all the hardships and doubt man would have now and in the future...
3. Any conclusions we come to must be in line with what the Bible tells us about God...


In my mind I find it logical to think the heavens and the earth were created first (without form and void) ....

Then the Angels...(one third of which rebelled against God)...And were cast to earth...

Then came the day and night cycles and the known creation story...Remember man was created 2 times. Once on earth and once with a spirit in the Garden of Eden.....

I am going to look into some of this stuff and draw another conclusion soon. Thank you for your posts...These are all very significant and worthy ideas coming into play...

Originally posted by Trolloks
just a thought, if god knows everything that is going to happen upon the point of creation, how can we have free will??
Its not free will if someone knows what we are going to do before we are even born, then its just acting out a script.

Wrong. Just because you know something is going to happen doesn't negate free will. Where did you get that idea?

Parent's watch their kid's make mistakes all the time, do they let them make them mistakes so they can learn? Yes. Did the kid make his own choice with free will? Yes.

If you know something is going to happen, you have to let it prove itself out, or else you never "knew". Simple.
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To the OP - Great Thread. S & F.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by B.A.C.]

reply to post by jackflap


1. Nope. wouldn't change a thing.

2. If they would turn against me, NP, just like "sims" they can be deleted from The Book of Life.

Who is the Clay to question the Potter?

God is OMNIPOTENT!
Any discrepancies are not his fault!
They were ment to be that way!
You will just have to deal with it!
(God has a sense of humor, albiet a british one )

[edit on 2009.3.12 by Carlthulhu]

Just a few more notes before I try to lay this out. The idea to have a child. That longing way down for you to have a child of your own. To raise them and love them and teach them all along the way. Could that human desire for our own offspring be compared to Gods will for us to exist?

This is one I will consider.

Originally posted by B.A.C.
reply to post by jackflap

 

1. Nope. wouldn't change a thing.

2. If they would turn against me, NP, just like "sims" they can be deleted from The Book of Life.

Who is the Clay to question the Potter?

Well we know God didn't just delete anything. He is perfect and knew all too well what would happen. It is a much bigger picture.

Originally posted by Carlthulhu
God is OMNIPOTENT!
Any discrepancies are not his fault!
They were ment to be that way!
You will just have to deal with it!
(God has a sense of humor, albiet a british one

)

[edit on 2009.3.12 by Carlthulhu]

Who said anything about discrepencies? In this plan there are no discrepencies at all. It is perfect.

Well I have posed this question to myself many times.

What if I were God...

That is what you're asking, even though it's ludicrous.

Well I wouldn't have created anything if it wasn't EASY. If it would take a large percentage of my energy to make then I wouldn't have done so. I mean c'mon this is only entertainment.

I love to watch people who get drunk/high, have sex, and do really really stupid ****. I love how you take life so seriously, and think that you are so important. Wars are entertaining too, in their own way. The way you creatures fear death can be fun too. Oh, and this thing you call money, ROFLMAO. I am SO GLAD I gave you free will, etc. otherwise Earth would be pretty boring.

Earth is my T.V. I hope you have enjoyed it thus far as much as I have.

...not God anymore.

...but some of us wish we were...

Originally posted by dragonking76

Earth is my T.V. I hope you have enjoyed it thus far as much as I have.

...not God anymore.

...but some of us wish we were...

Could you change the channel for me I lost the remote. Your suggestion just doesn't fit into what the Bible tells us about God. He wouldn't be using us for entertainment. You have keep inside the guidelines as you traverse all the possibilities. It is tough...

reply to post by jackflap


I was merely stating an "If I Were God" dialogue. ...or perhaps an "If The Average American Were God" dialogue.

"Guidelines" would not apply to a human if he/she were God.

I see what you're saying, but "If I Were God" are promises really promises to me?

Would I COMPLAIN about how hard it was to create everything?

[edit on 19-3-2009 by dragonking76]

There are three possibility's to a existence.

1. God creating everything from nothing.

2. Everything was there for God to create with.

3. Everything just is.

Nr 1. is quite hard to imagine. Because if space was a infinite space of nothing. Where would God get his creations from. And if he took it all away where would he put it.

Nr 2. Is possible. If matter was constant. Meaning no changes accruing until God creates something. A perfect Vacuum would explain a lot,because of what we observe in space and so on.

Nr 3. Is possible but it complicates "time" since everything that changes must have a beginning. It would bring us back to a creator God.

The equation of a beginning would look something like this:

matter = causes This means that matter and the power of causes are separated by equality. There is no change yet.

This supports nr 2.

PS. equality is the brain of the whole equation. As it is with all equations.
Nothing can pass through it unless it changes. And after it has changed it cant go back. Changes equals time just so you have that in mind. And we cant turn back time.


So equality is God.


PS. Even a scientist have to wait for a change to pass through equality to observe the product.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

God is not good, or else he is not omnipotent
An omnipotent being can never be a moral being. Having a moral code means one is barred from doing certain things, even if one is theoretically capable of them. Thus a perfectly good God would not be able to do evil even if He wished to. Therefore God cannot be omnipotent. Christians and other monotheists cannot have it both ways: either their God is good, or He is omnipotent.

God is not free to choose, or else he is not omniscient
As someone else pointed out, Divine Omniscience eliminates free will - for if everything is known in advance there is no possibility of choosing between actions: the choice is already known, therefore it is already made. Incidentally, this is true not only of created beings but also of their creator. That's right, folks: an omniscient being has no free will; he already knows what he's gong to do.

God is either just like us, or else he is not the Creator
It would seem as if God, in order to create the world, would probably need to be limited in the scope of His knowledge, as well as amoral.

Further, it may be argued that He would need to be limited in His capabilities, as well. Consider: the act of creation is always a step into the unknown. This is, indeed, the very source of the joy and fulfilment creation brings its creator - to behold something that has never been seen before, and know that one has created it. This is also why a creator - an artist, an inventor, a writer - is always rather surprised by the way his work turns out in the end.

Funnily enough, we read of just this kind of surprise being expressed by God in the Pentateuch, for example when the Israelites begin worshipping the Golden Calf and when men start to build the Tower of Babel. He also, I believe, expresses his disappointment and regret at the way his work has turned out at some point during the story of Noah's Flood.

Clearly, this suggests that God isn't very good at foreseeing the future.

Another of the joys of creation - a very perverse joy it is, too - is in the struggle towards perfection. As much as anything else this is a struggle with one's materials. I pity an omnipotent creator, who might bring what materials he pleases into existence and shape them as he wills. He's missing half the fun.

reply to post by jackflap

1. You are the creator. You are perfect and can do no wrong. Your plan (The one we live under now) is about to be willed into existence. Look around. At your own circumstances, at someone else and their circumstances. It was known from the beginning. Would you change said plan or would you trust that God has assured us His plan will not fail.

2. Would you have created free will and love knowing that free will may take your creation away from you.

#1. Let's look at God in a different light. Perfect does not necessarily mean: all knowing. Nor does it mean that He doesn't learn and by learning - change. He came into our existence fully equipped and exacting. This is not to say that he wasn't NEW at his early endeavors. It does not mean that He/It is not learning by his experience - now.

Isn't it possible that he has changed "said" plan many times over? Or at least that we have not been made privy to his actual plans?

#2. We are lemmings, we are not that important. If we choose to live in the light it works for our benefit as we tend to get his attention. But the choice is up to us. I do not think we are as valuable as we would like to think, but everything has its purpose and finality. It is more; how do WE fit? The information is put out there for us to search out. There are plenty to replace us if we don't.

"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." - Will Rogers

reply to post by Astyanax


knowledgefall said it well on a thread dealing with the subject of; omnipotence and omniscient qualities of God:

"If you are omnipotent, you can change the future. If you are omniscient, you have no need to."

My thoughts are brief.

"Let what will happen, happen. Those that are different will be different and conceivably will be the fittest to move forward and fulfill a far bigger picture than the rudimentary life mankind lives now. We are still only part way through the evolution of man, in God's plan."

Further, it may be argued that He would need to be limited in His capabilities, as well. Consider: the act of creation is always a step into the unknown. This is, indeed, the very source of the joy and fulfilment creation brings its creator - to behold something that has never been seen before, and know that one has created it. This is also why a creator - an artist, an inventor, a writer - is always rather surprised by the way his work turns out in the end.

Funnily enough, we read of just this kind of surprise being expressed by God in the Pentateuch, for example when the Israelites begin worshipping the Golden Calf and when men start to build the Tower of Babel. He also, I believe, expresses his disappointment and regret at the way his work has turned out at some point during the story of Noah's Flood.

Yes, being a NEW inventor has its downside!

Clearly, this suggests that God isn't very good at foreseeing the future.

Or chooses not to be. After all, it is all in the Game!

Another of the joys of creation - a very perverse joy it is, too - is in the struggle towards perfection. As much as anything else this is a struggle with one's materials. I pity an omnipotent creator, who might bring what materials he pleases into existence and shape them as he wills. He's missing half the fun.

You don't think watching man act like gerbils all climbing all over each other (like in a cage), all wanting to climb to the top, isn't entertaining?

Ahhh, but it is those who don't follow the script that make it all worthwhile!