Ron Paul to Bill Maher: America's War on Drugs must end

Makes me proud to here this.What George w.getting charged with war crimes?

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Also, I would imagine 80-90% of the 15 million you say (whatever the number, keep the percent) - are products of a criminal world (does more crimes, etc).

I had to respond. I am aware of a number of people - a LARGE number of people - who partake. They are tellers and doctors and pizza delivery persons and reiki healers and social workers and secretaries and engineers (Carl Sagan used it regularly) and sales clerks and programmers and artists and...

None are criminals. NONE. Well, unless you count the personal choice they make as being a criminal act. And then, for that single reason only...I guess they are criminals.

Would you think that legalizing marijuana would get rid of a large crime base?

Absolutely yes.

And no, I am not talking about being fined for just having the drug...I mean the environment that the current drug world has that sweeps kids in and practically kills them. Would THAT go away?

Since it is the illegality that creates the "scene," absolutely yes.

My personally answer to that is yes...

Ah. Good to know.

I personally am also a person of "Allow something, punish the abusers hard".

I am all for allowing other to do as they will - within informed willingess of those it affects. Do something against another's will that affects them, or fail to fully inform another before gaining consent... THAT is what *I* would punish.

But then how would the the CIA make there billions with drug traffic?

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


A war on drugs.That is a lie.There is no war on drugs and there never was.A war on drugs would be something like this...An aircraft carrier patrolling between north and south america.Aircraft in the air shooting down the piece of junk 2 engine barely running drug smuggling aircraft.Hunting and searching unidentified ships and boats,and security at the highest levels on our borders.Very simple solution to a simple problem.But it will never happen because most of the politicians in the US are corrupt.So stop talking about it.Matter of fact,stop expecting your government to do anything for YOU.Just keep voting in these idiots like the puppet fools you are.
Sick of it.

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


A good source of information concerning Amsterdam and other such countries that have a more common sense policy towards drug use is located here:

"http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/67" (hyperlink wouldn't work)

Some people don't like the drugwarfacts webpage because they consider it biased. But concerning this topic they post the sources for their information directly on the page. All of them are pretty official.



[edit on 23-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady



Sorry, but Ron Paul is a Freemason, his wife is in the Eastern Star and his kids are Rainbow Girls.

Whether or not his Black comments were true, he consistently claimed to be the "most conservative" candidate during the presidential election.

This whole marijuana ploy is simply to weaken the US government, as well as to generate apathy in those who use it. Smoking marijuana causes lung cancer, so by legalizing it the government would be legalizing yet another carcinogen. You can't go into somebody's house and tell whether they're smoking it, or making tea, or putting it in the brownies, so there's no point in legalizing only THC.

There are claims that it placates people. Ok, but it's also been shown to lead to aggressive behavior as well as hallucination.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Show me one credible source that says smoking marijuana causes lung cancer. Or even one person who has been diagnosed with cancer from smoking marijuana alone.

Edit: How bout these?

Study finds no cancer-marijuana connection - Washington Post
Marijuana unlikely to cause cancer. - WebMD

[edit on 23-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

People of ATS.

I have always thought of this group as some of the brightest people one the web. However after reading some of the posts on this thread, I cant help but retract my initial thoughts.

You play into the governments game so easily, but you also think that you are so much more aware than the average joe.

Go do some research on the drug war, find some numbers, dig up some truth then come back here and try and debate about it.

First of all the first piece of legislation that started down the road of a drug war was in 1937 and was called the Marihuana stamp act (correct spellin chillout). What this did was make all possession of marijuana illegal unless you had a stamp saying how much you could carry. Treasury held onto these stamps and they hardly if ever gave any to anyone. So in a sense they made marijuana illegal. Before this act it was legal and a popular substitute to alcohol and cigarettes.

During I think WWI (it might have been WWII) It was made legal again and was utilized mainly by Amercan industry. Hemp fiber is very strong easy to produce and the crops grow very very quickly so hemp is the mega crop of industry. Aside from fiber for clothing, hemp can be used for many things ranging from food to medicine. It is a very versitle and profitable plant.

Yet after that it was again made illegal sometime around the Sixties, This is where the modern prohibition began. A lot of specualtions can be made as to why is was made illegal again, hippies smoked cannabis so maybe it was a stab at their movement, Nixon was quoted saying how kids would get together smoke weed and talk to each other so maybe it was to make people more suseptible to TV and advertisments. The official stroy they stuck with was that it is bad for you, you know it kills brain cell makes you lazy destroys memory ect. However they had little scientific evidence to back their claims (that it ws bad for you) up.

In the seventies research was done and in a report known as the Shafer Report marijuana was cleared of its bad reputation. The report detailed that marijuana wasnt a problem to public health or safety. Nixon read the report but ignored its message and started the drug war.

In the nineties the government contiued to show only its biased research that said marijuana use was restricted to "D" average students (basically saying marijuana user were losers), that marijuana causes brain cells to die, so on and so forth.

Now in the year 2009 research from all over the world is proving that without a doubt marijuana is not as bad as its being made out to be. Research has shown that THC induces brain cell gowth, THC can reverse the growth of tumorous cells in the body, medically it can be prescribed for over 200 ailments (thats more than you'll get from poisenous big pharma meds). THC is the active chemical in marijuana. In over 5,000 years of recorded use no one has ever died from marijuana use.

Right now if we were to legalize marijuana and tax it we would open up a 40 billion dollar industry in the USA creating millions of jobs.

Open your eyes people, wake up and free yourself from their propoganda. Do some research.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Show me one credible source that says smoking marijuana causes lung cancer. Or even one person who has been diagnosed with cancer from smoking marijuana alone.

Edit: How bout these?

Study finds no cancer-marijuana connection - Washington Post
Marijuana unlikely to cause cancer. - WebMD

[edit on 23-2-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

You really expect me to believe the Washington Post, or the pharmaceutical-funded WebMD ?

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Then instead of coming back with some sly remark bring us something that says other wise.

Something credible. I will gurantee you will have a tough time trying to find a study that show marijuana use is linked to cancer.

reply to post by caballero



I'm dumb because I don't care whether marijuana is legalized? Really? You must be the dumb one for worshipping a damn plant that doesn't even have eyes.

All that you wrote just flew over my head.

If you want to legalize hemp fiber, fine, but adding in cannabis sativa as well would be insincere.

Last time I heard, hippies weren't prevented from smoking up, except in public.

Marijuana increases brain cell reproduction? How, by raising the body's temperature? A bubble bath can do that. By nearly killing off cells, causing them to panic? That's a more probable explanation. THC is a poison, and all poisons restrict the body's ability to absorb oxygen, hormones and nutrients. What kind of research do you have for that? In addition, marijuana is produced by basically torturing the female cannabis plant. In addition, most growers use chemicals, which get into the groundwater. What kind of research do you have for that?

Don't talk about tumorous cells, unless you know how tumors work.


[edit on 23-2-2009 by vcwxvwligen]

Originally posted by caballero
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Then instead of coming back with some sly remark bring us something that says other wise.

Something credible. I will gurantee you will have a tough time trying to find a study that show marijuana use is linked to cancer.

Most chemicals, when inhaled chronically, produce lung cancer. Inhaling firewood produces cancer.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

Good claims.

It is not that I "doubt" you - but where did you hear the numbers?

Also, I would imagine 80-90% of the 15 million you say (whatever the number, keep the percent) - are products of a criminal world (does more crimes, etc).

Would you think that legalizing marijuana would get rid of a large crime base? And no, I am not talking about being fined for just having the drug...I mean the environment that the current drug world has that sweeps kids in and practically kills them. Would THAT go away?

My personally answer to that is yes...

I personally am also a person of "Allow something, punish the abusers hard".

Do you know of any sites with economy/crime/education information and the like for Amsterdam? I am not asking you to do my research, but if you got any on hand it'd be nice. I did a quick google and found nothing.

Thanks to ImANutter for posting this in another thread.
Holland murders per 1000 people: .011
USA murders per 1000 people: .043

Holland prisoners per 1000 people: .11
USA prisoners per 1000 people: .72

Holland burglaries per 1000 people: 1.13
USA burglaries per 1000 people: 1.39

Holland assaults per 1000 people: 2.7
USA assaults per 1000 people: 7.6
source for all above information : www.nationmaster.com...

Originally posted by vcwxvwligenYou really expect me to believe the Washington Post, or the pharmaceutical-funded WebMD ?

First: Since when do news publications conduct large medical studies? If you muster up the strength to read, you'll find the sources for those studies are John Hopkins Medical School and UCLA.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by caballero

 

I'm dumb because I don't care whether marijuana is legalized? Really? You must be the dumb one for worshipping a damn plant that doesn't even have eyes.

All that you wrote just flew over my head.

If you want to legalize hemp fiber, fine, but adding in cannabis sativa as well would be insincere.

Last time I heard, hippies weren't prevented from smoking up, except in public.

Marijuana increases brain cell reproduction? How, by raising the body's temperature? A bubble bath can do that. By nearly killing off cells, causing them to panic? That's a more probable explanation. THC is a poison, and all poisons restrict the body's ability to absorb oxygen, hormones and nutrients. What kind of research do you have for that? In addition, marijuana is produced by basically torturing the female cannabis plant. In addition, most growers use chemicals, which get into the groundwater. What kind of research do you have for that?

Don't talk about tumorous cells, unless you know how tumors work.


[edit on 23-2-2009 by vcwxvwligen]

I am just going to post a few studies/thoughts that are completely relevant to the unfounded claims you've made int his post.

Marijuana ingredient inhibits VEGF pathway required for brain tumor blood vessels
news.bio-medicine.org...


Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth In Half, Study Shows
www.sciencedaily.com...

Study Finds No Link Between Marijuana Use And Lung Cancer
www.sciencedaily.com...


University Of Saskatchewan Research Suggests Marijuana Analogue Stimulates Brain Cell Growth
www.sciencedaily.com...

Effects of chronic marijuana use on testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, prolactin and cortisol in men and women.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... "Chronic marijuana use showed no significant effect on hormone concentrations in either men or women."

Long-Term Marijuana Users Suffer Few Health Problems, Australian Study Indicates
www.ukcia.org...

Female plants are "tortured" to get marijuana as much as rose plants are "tortured" when their flowers are clipped for valentines day.

Marijuana doesn't need any fertilizer or pesticides to grow, that's why its so great as hemp. At most, growers use miracle-gro, which isn't environmentally harsh.



[edit on 23-2-2009 by Reddupo]

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Reddupo]

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


First off. I never once said or implied that your were dumb or unintelligent in any way. I simply said rather than making some sly remark show proof to your claim, which was a resonable thing to say since you were saying marijuana does this and that without providing any proof.

Then I would liket to point out that yes inhaling anykind of smoke is bad for you, especially when you directly inhale in the form of a cigarette or joint. However there is substantial proof that the active chemical in marijuana, THC, reduces tumorous cell growth.

Rather than making an argument and providing no proof than getting defensive when asked for proof, why dont you behave like an adult and debate with us in a logical manner. By providing your argument with proof.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

I have to come back because i just read your first post to me all the way through.

I never once said I was an expert on anything, nor do I worship the plant, please do not make accusations.

I believe in my civil rights thats what this issue is for me, The government has no place to be telling me what I can or cannot do with my health or my body.

Female marijuana plants are tortured? how is it that we are torturing plants? Animals I can understand but now we cant even reap the benefits from the plant world?


[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

Originally posted by caballero
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

First off. I never once said or implied that your were dumb or unintelligent in any way. I simply said rather than making some sly remark show proof to your claim, which was a resonable thing to say since you were saying marijuana does this and that without providing any proof.

Then I would liket to point out that yes inhaling anykind of smoke is bad for you, especially when you directly inhale in the form of a cigarette or joint. However there is substantial proof that the active chemical in marijuana, THC, reduces tumorous cell growth.

Rather than making an argument and providing no proof than getting defensive when asked for proof, why dont you behave like an adult and debate with us in a logical manner. By providing your argument with proof.

[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

I have to come back because i just read your first post to me all the way through.

I never once said I was an expert on anything, nor do I worship the plant, please do not make accusations.

I believe in my civil rights thats what this issue is for me, The government has no place to be telling me what I can or cannot do with my health or my body.

Female marijuana plants are tortured? how is it that we are torturing plants? Animals I can understand but now we cant even reap the benefits from the plant world?


[edit on 23-2-2009 by caballero]

Why does this substance need to be smoked? I thought the new thing was vaporization. Inhaling vapor boosts THC levels and lowers carcinogen levels. I don't have any proof for you but e-cigs have been around for a few years. I'm surprised there isn't more sponsorship for health concerns when it comes to vaporization.

Besides the point I don't think that anyone has really deepened the thought of what society would be like if marijuana would be legalized. There still would be hardcore drugs being smuggled in the country as well as gang violence. On the other hand hardcore drugs are most likely already produced on US soil. There are far too many warehouses and factories to hide these kind of operations. Why smuggle it in when it is already here? I don't think this drug war will end because meth, heroin, and coc aine are the actual villans. I get the point that marijuana is a driving force for hardcore drug smugglers but what I don't get is the law that is blocking marijuana agriculture/use that has an enormous amount of benefits for society and the economy.

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

Good claims.

It is not that I "doubt" you - but where did you hear the numbers?

Also, I would imagine 80-90% of the 15 million you say (whatever the number, keep the percent) - are products of a criminal world (does more crimes, etc).

Would you think that legalizing marijuana would get rid of a large crime base? And no, I am not talking about being fined for just having the drug...I mean the environment that the current drug world has that sweeps kids in and practically kills them. Would THAT go away?

My personally answer to that is yes...

I personally am also a person of "Allow something, punish the abusers hard".

Do you know of any sites with economy/crime/education information and the like for Amsterdam? I am not asking you to do my research, but if you got any on hand it'd be nice. I did a quick google and found nothing.

Thanks to ImANutter for posting this in another thread.
Holland murders per 1000 people: .011
USA murders per 1000 people: .043

Holland prisoners per 1000 people: .11
USA prisoners per 1000 people: .72

Holland burglaries per 1000 people: 1.13
USA burglaries per 1000 people: 1.39

Holland assaults per 1000 people: 2.7
USA assaults per 1000 people: 7.6
source for all above information : www.nationmaster.com...

Those statistics are overly simplistic.

The Japanese don't smoke marijuana, yet they have among the lowest rates of murder and heart disease, and the greatest longevity. They have other diseases, related mostly to their consumption of soy.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

Cannabis has been an integral part of Japanese culture since the beginnings of its history. Cannabis is a sacred herb to the religion of Shinto, and was also used and praised by ancient Zen poets and Buddhist monks.

reply to post by Reddupo



Ok, but after you're done with that, read this: www.sciencedaily.com...

Those sites you cited contain both pro and con marijuana stories, so you're presenting only half of the picture.

Nope, cannabis plants are tortured more systematically then just clipping them when their flowers bloom. There's a whole system just to make them bloom, as a matter of fact.

If you think that marijuana is not only not safe, but conversely life-enhancing, then you are not only delusional, but buying to a lie.

I never said that growers use pesticides. They use "hydroponics"
Miracle-Gro isn't bulletproof -- a quick check in a search engine will reveal that.

reply to post by WISHADOW


It doesnt have to be smoke at all.

The drug war is still alive and strong because of marijuana, not enough people do the other "hard" drugs to have involvment on the federal level.

Yea meth and heroin are problems but the biggest problem is that they are illegal and unregulated. If they were regulated the govt could make it next to impossible to get these drugs.

Its all a scheme.