Demand a truly independent investigation

Maybe we're all fed up with the system, but we ought to at least utilize it! I think everyone who feels uncertainty (pretty much 99.9% on this site) should be obligated to write to their local congressman(woman) urging a new bill to reinvestigate the 9/11 crime.

Here is a recap of the several no-brainers:

Where are the flight blackboxes (tape recordings)? So you mean to tell me PAPER documents survived the incineration, but not a supposedly indestructible box!?

How come the skyscraper in Beijing is still erect after ALL FLOORS were on fire? So how did WTC 7 really demolish?

Let's compare blueprints of the two buildings! I'm pretty confident they're probably built somewhat the same!

No debris near the Pentagon?

I could go on and on......

I mean if there is a significant number of concerned citizens writing to their congressman to reinvestigate 9/11 and they still do not propose legislation--it will just reveal even more that our democracy is a sham!

Hey welcome to ATS

Thing is most people on this site know 911 was 100% inside job.

Thing is 'they' control the game.

JFK still has not been solved - so I'm afraid 911 probably won't either. The thing is YOU know it was an inside job, as do we. Those people you voted for are a bunch of limp, phoneys.

They are spineless, they are cowardly, they are a lot more than that. And the whole lot should be sacked just like that. They do NOTHING apart from pass the buck.

It's time you turn your back on these germs, and turn off the TV don't buy newspapers, educate yourself (on sites like this) - educate others to do the same.

Without public support they will totally loose faith in their own positions they THINK are important. This is global thinking. Mindset.

Be comforted knowing you have more worth to humanity than any of those bottom feeding boot licking sell outs.

Even better if you feel sorry for them, because basically they are useless and they know it.

wZn

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
Maybe we're all fed up with the system, but we ought to at least utilize it! I think everyone who feels uncertainty (pretty much 99.9% on this site) should be obligated to write to their local congressman(woman) urging a new bill to reinvestigate the 9/11 crime.

Here is a recap of the several no-brainers:

Where are the flight blackboxes (tape recordings)? So you mean to tell me PAPER documents survived the incineration, but not a supposedly indestructible box!?

First, some of the black boxes were recovered. Second, the data recorders are not indestructible. They are considered "crash resistant or crash survivable" and that is mainly due to their location in most aircraft...towards the tail. Third, 9/11 would not be the first time (or the second or third or hundreth time) that they were unable to retrieve useful information from the recorders. Fourth, you seem incredulous that paper could survive an airliner accident...should I point out that paper/video tapes survived the Columbia disaster?

How come the skyscraper in Beijing is still erect after ALL FLOORS were on fire? So how did WTC 7 really demolish?

What objects hit the building in Beijing? I do not recall either an airliner or a neighboring building hitting it.

Let's compare blueprints of the two buildings! I'm pretty confident they're probably built somewhat the same!

Assumptions are a bad thing to make. In this case, you are very wrong.

No debris near the Pentagon?

Yeah I keep hearing this one. However, I have no problems finding pictures of airliner wreckage at the Pentagon. Nor do I have a problem finding the statements/reports of the people that were there that day.

[I could go on and on......

I could too......

I understand majority of people on here believe the investigation doesn't add up about 9/11. The question is, what are WE doing about it besides just talk about it? This is when we have to utilize our insitution, our government, whether we like it or not, to demand a new investigation on the biggest crime our country has faced.

Let's write to our local congressman (or woman to be PC).

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
Maybe we're all fed up with the system, but we ought to at least utilize it! I think everyone who feels uncertainty (pretty much 99.9% on this site) should be obligated to write to their local congressman(woman) urging a new bill to reinvestigate the 9/11 crime.

Here is a recap of the several no-brainers:

Where are the flight blackboxes (tape recordings)? So you mean to tell me PAPER documents survived the incineration, but not a supposedly indestructible box!?

How come the skyscraper in Beijing is still erect after ALL FLOORS were on fire? So how did WTC 7 really demolish?

Let's compare blueprints of the two buildings! I'm pretty confident they're probably built somewhat the same!

No debris near the Pentagon?

I could go on and on......

You'll find that your questions have already been addressed with the outcome always being the same: there is no demonstrable evidence refuting what happened on 9/11 or demonstrating in any way that "9/11 was an inside job."

You'll find with close inspection that things like the Beijing hotel fire are far from what the 9/11 Truth Movement is representing. How do you compare two completely dissimilar buildings in materials, construction, engineering, and modern advances as a result of the 9/11 attacks on WTC 1 and 2, and conclude that concrete is in any way comparable with steel and therefore either WTC 7 should not have collapsed or the Beijing hotel should have collapsed?

You'll find a wealth of evidence and refutations of 9/11 conspiracy theories here:

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...



[edit on 23-2-2009 by jthomas]

reply to post by jthomas

There is no demonstrable evidence refuting what happened on 9/11?

By the same token, there is no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt either. The government could never prove it's case in a courtroom.

I'd still love to know how an aircraft vaporizes, and yet, the authorities find human remains among the rubble of the Pentagon, enough for dna testing.


Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 2/24/2009 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by saturnsringsreply to post by jthomas

 

There is no demonstrable evidence refuting what happened on 9/11?

By the same token, there is no evidence beyond a reasonable doubt either.

According to whom?

The government could never prove it's case in a courtroom.

The government doesn't have anything it has to prove. Remember, it is only a claim that the government was behind 9/11. That is what the 9/11 Truth Movement has to demonstrate but hasn't.

I'd still love to know how an aircraft vaporizes, and yet, the authorities find human remains among the rubble of the Pentagon, enough for dna testing.

There is nothing preventing you from understanding what happened to the aircraft or why DNA-testable remains were found.


Mod edit: Reduced size of previous quote.

[edit on 2/24/2009 by Hal9000]

reply to post by jthomas
Perhaps you can prove the governments case beyond a reasonable doubt. Yes I know the government doesn't have to prove anything. I'm also 100% positive no one will ever have access to government records. That's where you'll find proof, but as I stated, no one will ever have access to them, no one.

Again.......Why didn't Bush want an investigation? Why doesn't the FBI have any proof that bin laden masterminded 9/11? The twin towers were built to withstand multiple impacts of jet liners, yet both collapsed within a couple of hours of being hit?

I'm sure you have answers to these questions and hundreds of others too. I was a believer in the original story, til I did some snooping around, now I'm on the other side, and nothing you say will change my mind.

Originally posted by saturnsrings
reply to post by jthomas

 

Perhaps you can prove the governments case beyond a reasonable doubt.

There is no "government case" to prove. That is the point. It is only the 9/11 Truth Movement that claims the "government" is, a priori, the suspect. The 9/11 TM claims as an established conclusion that which it has NOT demonstrated.

Yes I know the government doesn't have to prove anything. I'm also 100% positive no one will ever have access to government records.

That's another strawman argument. The evidence of what happened on 9/11 is not dependent on what the government says or does not say about it. The vast amount of evidence is from independent sources, thousands of sources and bits of evidence neither originating with nor controlled by the government.

That's where you'll find proof, but as I stated, no one will ever have access to them, no one.

Unfortunately, you are in the position that your claim is meaningless given what we do know (and which the 9/11 TM routinely finds inconvenient to its political objectives and therefore ignores.)

Again.......Why didn't Bush want an investigation? Why doesn't the FBI have any proof that bin laden masterminded 9/11? The twin towers were built to withstand multiple impacts of jet liners, yet both collapsed within a couple of hours of being hit?

Asking questions that have already been addressed is the basis for your evidence of exactly what?

I'm sure you have answers to these questions and hundreds of others too. I was a believer in the original story, til I did some snooping around, now I'm on the other side, and nothing you say will change my mind.

Yes, many are against the scientific method since political goals trump everything. I hope you see the errors of your way and come to see where you've gone astray. Objective reality and the preponderance of evidence do not support your new beliefs.

Cheers.

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
How come the skyscraper in Beijing is still erect after ALL FLOORS were on fire?

Probably because it was a concrete (not steel-framed) building.

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
I think everyone who feels uncertainty (pretty much 99.9% on this site) should be obligated to write to their local congressman(woman) urging a new bill to reinvestigate the 9/11 crime.

If this new investigation is paid for and/or controlled by congress...how, exactly, is it going to be "independent"?

Originally posted by adam_zapple
Probably because it was a concrete (not steel-framed) building.

DOH! Unresearched and wrong again, as usual:

China Central Television in Beijing

Designed by the Pritzker Prize-winning Dutch architect Rem Koolhaas, the new CCTV building is one of the largest office buildings in the world. The angular 49-story towers appear about to topple, yet the structure is carefully designed to withstand earthquakes. Jagged cross sections made with some 10,000 tons of steel form the sloping towers.

architecture.about.com...

Emphasis in above excerpt is mine.

Seriously adam_zapple, when are you going to do some real research before running on a forum and posting absolutely false information without even taking 3 seconds to Google it?

[edit on 25-2-2009 by _BoneZ_]

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by adam_zapple
Probably because it was a concrete (not steel-framed) building.

DOH! Unresearched and wrong again, as usual:

China Central Television in Beijing

Designed by the Pritzker Prize-winning Dutch architect Rem Koolhaas, the new CCTV building is one of the largest office buildings in the world. The angular 49-story towers appear about to topple, yet the structure is carefully designed to withstand earthquakes. Jagged cross sections made with some 10,000 tons of steel form the sloping towers.

architecture.about.com...

Emphasis in above excerpt is mine.

I am not surprised. I long ago ceased being surprised by the 9/11 Truth Movement's inability to get facts right.

We are not talking about the CCTV tower, which, if you had bothered to even look at your link, is not the structure that burned or the one under discussion.

The Madarin Hotel, the sister building known as the TVCC was the one that burned. And it was a concrete core structure with a titanium zinc alloy-cladding.

While its central concrete section was completed in January, workers will spend the months until the building's opening late this year applying finishing touches and adding the structure's unique outer skin. For that section, which craws across the building from east to west, the architects chose titanium zinc alloy, a material that will rust with a certain dignity, giving the building a bronzy, matte surface and providing a protective layer. "This will endure time better than other metal buildings," says Yao.

pasternacking.blogspot.com...

Please get your facts right, bone z.

Originally posted by jthomas
The Madarin Hotel, the sister building known as the TVCC was the one that burned. And it was a concrete core structure with a titanium zinc alloy-cladding

Unlike some, I actually admit when I'm wrong. So with that, I say OOPS! I got the wrong building and that was my bad. Here's what the construction of the hotel consisted of:

The hotel tower was designed as a reinforced concrete frame plus core.
The hotel tower and podium were conceived as two structures separated by movement joints. The TVCC building was covered by a single roof, which was made from a steel space frame. The roof was connected to the hotel tower at a high level, while it was supported above the podium by dedicated steel columns.

www.gulfconstructionworldwide.com...

Reverting back to for the demand of a new investigation on 9/11, I just find it a big hypocrisy when I keep hearing and reading how Truth Movement seekers justify how a government reinvestigation will not solve anything. Sure, our federal government is based upon a representative democracy, don't we elect representatives to serve our needs (in the most complete naive sense)? We are the constituents after all! What's the point of a democracy when we, the constituents, cannot trust the representatives who WE elected for us in the first place!? It is maddening. Talk about an illusion. How can we, the people, bring justice to the 9/11 victims' families then!? What about bringing the case to a state level? The crime did happen in the State of New York, did it not? Or will they somehow justify it as a federal case when it involves airplanes? Or did the government want a crash in D.C. (Pentagon) so that it can inevitably be conducted as a federal case? Do you all understand where I am coming from?

Also, when did Obama mention that a 9/11 Truth Movement was "childish?" Is it on You Tube?

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by adam_zapple
Probably because it was a concrete (not steel-framed) building.

DOH! Unresearched and wrong again, as usual:

China Central Television in Beijing

Designed by the Pritzker Prize-winning Dutch architect Rem Koolhaas, the new CCTV building is one of the largest office buildings in the world. The angular 49-story towers appear about to topple, yet the structure is carefully designed to withstand earthquakes. Jagged cross sections made with some 10,000 tons of steel form the sloping towers.

architecture.about.com...

Emphasis in above excerpt is mine.

Seriously adam_zapple, when are you going to do some real research before running on a forum and posting absolutely false information without even taking 3 seconds to Google it?

[edit on 25-2-2009 by _BoneZ_]

Bolded for your convenience.

The 34-storey TVCC, which required 92,000 sq m of external and internal Rheinzink cladding, consists of a 1,500-seat theatre, audio recording studios, digital cinemas, news release and a five-star hotel with ballroom and function facilities and a generous spa. The hotel tower was designed as a reinforced concrete frame plus core.

www.gulfconstructionworldwide.com...

Edit: I see jthomas has already corrected you.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by adam_zapple]

If we can develop a particle accelerator, grasp an understanding of quantum mechanics, and dare I go here: (ha) land on the moon, we surely can recreate the 9/11 attacks by constructing proportinate models and size ratio buildings, planes, etc. to see if the science sustains the alledged claims in 9/11 commission report. Build a model of WTC 1, 2, 7 fit to scale. Fly model airplanes proportinate in terms of weight and speed impacting the buildings. See if the physics ultimately withstand the claims made a government-appointed commission!

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
If we can develop a particle accelerator, grasp an understanding of quantum mechanics, and dare I go here: (ha) land on the moon, we surely can recreate the 9/11 attacks by constructing proportinate models and size ratio buildings, planes, etc. to see if the science sustains the alledged claims in 9/11 commission report. Build a model of WTC 1, 2, 7 fit to scale. Fly model airplanes proportinate in terms of weight and speed impacting the buildings. See if the physics ultimately withstand the claims made a government-appointed commission!

It's not as easy as it sounds, due to things like the Square-Cube Law.

en.wikipedia.org...

For example...an elephant can fall from 2x it's height and be badly injured....if we model that situation using a smaller animal like a cat, or smaller still an ant, our results are going to be drastically different. That's why computer simulations are used extensively in this type of work.

Has there been a computer simulation of the attacks yet?

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
Has there been a computer simulation of the attacks yet?

This is the most accurate simulation of the collapse I have seen.