History of Un-armed Citizens

Originally posted by AgentMoulder
Decent post and some valid points for your arguement. However, I have to correct you on one thing; Obama's plan is not to completely ban firearms and abolish the 2nd amendment, but rather limit the number of "assault rifles" one can own. I am an Obama supporter myself, but I do not agree with his plan to put a fixed number on gun ownership. Honestly I believe it will be nothing more than that of a "plan" or "idea". At the moment there are bigger fish to fry. Mainly the economic turmoil most of are in at the moment. Plus, if it did become more than just an idea, it would be included in the midnight policies ( I believe that's what they are called). So that at least 4-8 years down the road.

As I said, decent but let's keep the fear mongering word play to a minimum. At least provide some quotes from a credible source to show President Obama had plans to "abolish" the 2nd amendment as you stated.

Have you seen the high state of defense the government military and private mercenaries and police have? Can your shotgun or handgun penetrate their shields, body armor, protective glass, tanks, etc.? I think not. Be real, if you had to hold of well defended and armed criminals, especially if they are your own military, you'll want those high tech assault rifles and cop killers. I know very few that don't stockpile such things away. You'd be stupid, but then, those who hand over legal guns for things like feeling good and roses, etc. are in fact dumber than the dumbest of dumb. To think your police and military will not turn on you, guess what, you are naive to believe that. If I commanded them I would stack false experts and reports to show how you are either disease infected or a terrorist and are, either way, a threat to public safety, that survival of mankind and the American way depends on your quarantine and extermination by purging by fire, etc. I could think of truth based lies all day. If I think of ways to do it, what makes you think they don't ? Lucky for you I don't have the power to remove the ignorant civilians whom I feel are the true threat to freedom. Believe me, I would. And I would come for your guns first, peacefully with a grin at first, by force after. Except for those well armed few, I'd be as polite to them as I could, I like breathing.

Originally posted by liesnomore
I do not own a gun and I do not want a gun. Any firearms promote a violence.
The most people what "scare" me with guns are the Law Enforcement in any form. The can kill innocent person and "walk away" free of any charges.
If you want to feel safe - write petition to your Governor to enforce existing gun law.Draft all gang members to serve in military - that will solve the shortage and disarm all Law Enforcement officers. That way the law obedient citizens will have no reason to fear and firearms will not be needed.
There are many ways to stop the opponent without taking a life.

If you don't own or want a gun then that could be why you and people like you get shot by police. I had a cop want to shoot me once when I was about 17. He was notorious for shooting at unarmed people and planting weapons from the crime locker on them. Fortuanately I had a couple of handguns and shotgun to hold him off. Reenforcements arrived and I and some friends found ourselves in a standoff with over 56 agents. But, we held off long enough for media and private cameras to show up and drew a crowd of bystanders, then we turned ourselves in. I am only alive against criminal cops because I was illegally armed.

Gangs would not join the military, and, if the military ever overran this country, who do you think your first line of defense will be? Those dope dealing gun runnin gangbangers you hate so much. They are really your modern day minute man. And, where do you think my friends get all those drugs and guns? Their good ole police drug task force units and uncle Sam.

Your logic sounds like what they conditioned you to think and say. Wake up. Guns aren't your enemy, you fear of them is.

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

Whatever, let them disarm America. The day they criminalize guns is the day I become a criminal.

you can add me to that list brother!............ they can't have my gun, but I will give them the bullets....

[edit on 19-2-2009 by rikk7111]

Originally posted by jBrereton
And how many of those things were solved by the general populace being armed?

Apparently I'm not making myself clear. The recognized injustices of these regrettable moments in American history occurred in the first place because of individuals and administrations attempting to violate the Constitution. When we abide by the Constitution, America can recover from anything. Part and parcel of abiding by the Constitution is respecting its components, including the Second Amendment.

Originally posted by jBrereton
The internment camps ended because the war did. McCarthyism died on its knees because McCarthy was a stupid drunk and was called on it on national television. JFK and RFK got taken out because they went against the establishment and got iced for it. The Iran-Contra # was cleared up because it was in the US' interest to have both Iran and Iraq damaged by their war in the 1980s equally, etc. etc. etc.

What you think you know about America reads like a distillation of History Channel documentaries, which are notoriously biased and inaccurate.

The internment camps of WWII were unconstitutional, as American citizens were incarcerated for years without trial — this injustice was not resolved with the end of WWII, but lingered for several more decades until the U.S. government finally admitted its crime, apologized and offered restitution. Even so, heads should have rolled.

As it turns out and was revealed over a decade ago, Joe McCarthy was right about socialists and communists infiltrating our entertainment industry — and even the U.S. government — with anti-American agendas. Joe's downfall was that he was stabbing about in the dark and his methods were brutish, and he made important enemies who ultimately had the last laugh.

JFK and RFK didn't merely buck the system, they attempted to manipulate America's Federal Reserve (verboten), as well as attempted to strong-arm The Mob (a very poor decision, given that organized crime is historically well-connected to American politics).

Iran/Contra in itself did exactly what Col. Oliver North and his superiors intended; however, there is a much darker side to the story, including the U.S. government trafficking coc aine out of Arkansas (under Bill Clinton's governorship at the time) and probably erasing a number of American citizens as well as operatives who came too close to the whole truth.

Originally posted by jBrereton
Please don't presume I'm ignorant to the history of the US, it's very patronising.

Oh, I didn't presume. I knew it without doubt.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by buttafuqua
Don't hate the truth. This is simply a racially based rally cry to the Republican base, to scare whites into believing that Obama is evil.

It really can not happen without violent confrontation. Seriously, you could practically do anything to the American Citizenry, as evidenced by this recently "bail out", of our economy. But do not attempt to strip Americans of our guns. There would be anarchy in the streets.

This is just not a plausible conspiracy. Honestly, think of just how easy it is to own, or posses a gun. I won't happen, and pretending that it does speaks to either your lack of intelect, for not reckgonizing how simply unplausibe this scenario would be, or a racist. Either way, I don't think that is your intention.

I take offense to that, fortuanately, I fought for your right to live in the dark ages as it were. Yes, whites have a racial superiority complex, they are greedy power trippers, they force convert or die religions on people and humiliate those who choose life before their clergy, yes, they torture and kill and enact seasoning to acculturate slaves to their system, yes, thet are manipulative and misleading, history has proven this plenty, they have made a lot of enemies and breed self hate and self guilt in everyone they come in contact with. It's why Communists Muslims and Jews secretly and openly dislike the Gentile Christian. And, even after many woke up and stop overt slavery they never addressed the consequences and the psychological damage done to the blacks. true Jews can't say as much after all they recieved in compensation and they counseling and commissions to address their psychological damage, so, in the Black Matrix of the Integration of those realities, I understand fully your position. But, I am not a Republican, or a Democrat, in fact, I detest all Government especially a republic. I only support Aristolean Philosophy vs. Platonistic, I support individual rights vs. group rights, yet, I voted for Obama myself, even though I disagree with the politics on all sides. I did so with many like me because we knew he'd fail. His failure will speed up the inevitable result and bring the collapse of this country on so we can just get to it and quit talking about it. I can't wait. This country is lost that, like nature, a forest fire is the only way to bring fresh growth and the only real change we can believe in. I don't care if he's black or purple, just so as he fails. And by failing, I mean getting everything he asks for. It is rigged to collapse, study history and see that conspiracy theorists aren't crazy. Only a paranoid person develops a keen eye and sees reality his non paranoid counterpart doesn't see or want to see. You suffer from a delusion. You play racism if they don't like Obama like Bush hater is played on anyone who points out the Bush's are open traitors. Well, Obama's a traitor, too.

My family is a mutt mix of all the races, I am white, my brother is black, my neices and nephews are white, black, Indian, mixed, etc.

I have every race in my family. I am a Wigger, a White Nigger Lover, racist blacks hate me, white racist's can't stand me, I suffer more racism than you I promise, and I'm white. I have had over 60 plus cops try to kill me, I have lived in predominant black neighborhoods where I have been shot at and chased and beaten and whipped with sticks, lashed across my back at the hands of blacks, chained in the slave cuffs of the police, for being white in a black neighborhood, I have had many guns shoved in my mouth by KKK and hateful whites because I'm a disgrace to my race because I lived in a black neighborhood, had black friends, and love my black family members. And, because of the blacks in my family I have been shunned and had to fight with my own family, be they the white, black, latin, mexican, indian portions. Being poor and from the projects, despite my 98% scores on my work, and my 3.8 GPA I don't get scholarship's. I have been falsely accused of Murder, and twice put on the Terrorist list's as a suspected terrorist, I have been wrongly committed and have a false record created by police and therapists. I could keep going, but, what the hell are you talking about??!

What racism do you face? Take a black kid and put him in an all white neighborhood and I promise you, I've seen it, he's treated very well, you take a white kid and put them in an all black neighborhood, and you watch what happens when no one's looking. I've been confronted while sitting on my front porch by gangs of black's being told that this cracker was in the wrong neighborhood. I've heard what up Cracker till I could puke. But, you let me say what up nigga and a riot breaks out, I've done it. You know what though, I fought back, and won enough to earn their respect, or at least their fear, until the white's, black's, and police were either nice and took the time to get to know me or smart enough to leave me the hell alone. So, what exactly have you or anyone in your community or race suffered lately at the hand's of racism? Don't talk to me about # you don't know. You don't know the first thing about racism. You just feed off of memories of what used to be and pass it on to us. From my point of view, white's are not the only racists, and from personal experience, they are no where violent to the degree black's are about it.
I have black friends in Gangs all over the place, I have lived in every state but 5 and been to six countries, and Black's are generally more decent to me than white's, but, none of them have been so foolish to admit they don't practice cool racism if nothing else. I love black people and they have come to love me. Their's alaways exeptions, but, white people are not all the same any more than black people, I hate Obama politically and I voted for him so I have the right to say it. And as far as racism, there is a Black Matrix, but, racism is not the driving force you think it is, it is about Oligarchic wealth, read The Black Matrix; Propoganda (1928) by Edward Barnays; Summary of the Book of PsychoPolitics, etc. Study more, better yet, go meet some white people and have a real life experience before you assume that blacks are the only ones made to suffer from self hate, because blacks were used to perfect the methodology, doesn't mean you should ignore that it was so that it would be used on everyone to fill all with self hate.

Originally posted by freighttrain
reply to post by W3RLIED2

 

I don't understand, what is the problem with them banning guns... US has the highest rate of death by guns in the world (by a HUGE percentage). people just killing one another, I live in Canada, we're not permitted to have hand guns, etc.. (other then hunting gun) and crime rate is much, much lower then US.

I understand the government intention may not be good as they have proven over and over again for the last few decades, but on the same token i don't see a point allowing guns in everyones hand... specially people that are afraid of the world and their next door neighbours.

We don't need guns to protect ourselves from one another... we need to learn to trust/help one another.

If you acknowledge that our government has bad intentions, it does not follow that we should trust it to be like yours. And as for Canada, their is political opposition to the Government as it is there, just as in the US, the difference is, without guns, you will never be able to affect real change if the day should ever come that your government is not so polite, or is invaded by your neighbors in the USSR. You would be defenseless.

If Americans had more guns there would be less crime. Proof, the Wild West. petty thieves and small time bandits made international headlines because they were so RARE. Because everyone had guns (even the kids) I know kids now who own them, and I trust them to stand behind me with a loaded one. If you don't trust people, well, it's because you don't trust yourself. I would never let you stand behind my back with a loaded gun. You shoot me for the enemy just so they won't shoot you, because it's easier for you to shoot me in my back than to shoot someone armed facing you. Cowardice I want to say, the word Yellow used to be used and I kind of like it better. What are you? Yellow?

Originally posted by liesnomore
Kids are joining a gangs because they see no future or they was told by their parent of easy way to a wealth. If you put a military uniform on them and give them a proper discipline and education- they will turn out to be a good solders.
If you love your gun so much - at least use a rubber bullets or taser gun. How many of you are attending a church and claim that you love the God, but in the some time you are violate( or willing too) the God Law- "Thau shall no kill".
Seems like you do whatever it is convenient at given moment.

During my time with Gangs and Special Forces I have seen more illegal trafficking and crimes than anywhere else. Probably a close second to what gets pushed through government beuracracy and prisons combined. Don't speak what you are only assuming please, unless you indicate it is an opinion only, some folks (or people, depending on your affiliations) may take it as fact. Thank you.

Originally posted by liesnomore
Kids are joining a gangs because they see no future or they was told by their parent of easy way to a wealth. If you put a military uniform on them and give them a proper discipline and education- they will turn out to be a good solders.
If you love your gun so much - at least use a rubber bullets or taser gun. How many of you are attending a church and claim that you love the God, but in the some time you are violate( or willing too) the God Law- "Thau shall no kill".
Seems like you do whatever it is convenient at given moment.

Rubber bullets vs. real ones? Why not just suggest taking a knife to a gun fight. Clearly you never grew up in a crime ridden neighborhood, folks like you sure sound like it. Stay with me for awhile, you will not only change your mind, but, do it before the end of the first day. And that's before the real fun comes, during the night. And, you will lose that sense of calling the cops real quick when you see whose behind alot of it.

And tasers, hmm, if I'm not mistaken, that used to be called, electroshock therapy, based on the Russian Ivan Pavlov's experiments which created the basis for psychoanalysis and surgery, which gave way to the name change to Sensitivity Training, and that's just the Russian element, how is the Nazi and American renditions of that again, oh yeh, psychological warfare changed name to guerilla, and psychoanalysis (aka Brainwashing) gave way to Propoganda, until negative connotations gave way to the name Public Affairs, non lethal combat was part of the Communist Global Psychological War, a real war to this day, you won't hear about it,but, read JFK's Bay of Pig's speech 'President and the Press' he is talking about it. Study History a little better and don't rely on the history they taught and continue to teach you. Surrender your thought, soon, you won't need to surrender speech, you'll be a parakeet, soon, you'll hand them your gun. Oh wait. See, they knew it wasn't enough to lie to you, they made that mistake with Vietnam, on up to the Iraq invasion, they are beginning to realize the must tailor the truth to capture your soul to believe as they tell you to believe. But, don't believe me.

Originally posted by buttafuqua
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

I would call a ban of guns to be just that. Whenever I can't walk into a Walmart, or waltz into a gun show and purchase a gun. When I would be unable to easily purchase a gun on the street, then I would say that we are in fact not easily able to obtain guns.

Ummm. If you woke up one day to find that you couldn't buy a gun at WalMart, what exactly is it you think happens next? Do you call your representative to protest? Do you then stock up on....wait, scratch that, shelves are empty. Do you go to the criminals to, wait, they won't part with them then, scratch that. You didn't buy one because there was no stock in all the fear mongering, so, you get some coffee and go home. Wait, off in the distance..what's that sound?

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by buttafuqua

 

I appreciate your point of view as everyones here. I must agree it is the person that kills, not the gun.
However, it is the fact they ARE so prevalent that causes alot of the problems. It would be naive to blame it on that alone. It is just more common to settle arguments with guns. Call it the lack of a big bulge, no sense of right and wrong, a death wish or just no brains.
It must be a way to prove manhood for these kids, to "LOOK bad ass", to "stand out". The fact tv, games, & movies makes it honestly seem like poppin a cap in someones a** ain't that big a deal. Basically in the "old days" it was considered wrong. Almost like we think we got several "lives" left and alot more quarters! Just my take. There ARE too many illegal guns and there ARE too many that do not think a thing about poppin caps in people, unfortunately.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by dodadoom]

If you could make all the guns go poof, yes. but you can't.

Want criminals gone, shoot the kooks to death. Then less kooks will come forward, then, less people have to kill and fewer have to die.
Plus, the few that govern the many won't forget their place and pass trillions of dollars without reading what they are doing.

If revolution starts and law goes caput, I'm going after everyone who said ban the guns.

reply to post by PhyberDragon


PhyberDragon! Thanks, the rest of us where getting tired of defending our Constitution against Moron's.

I was wondering where you have been........

Originally posted by liesnomore
I know about the Warsaw Ghetto and uprising. I know Polish history well as I was born I Poland. The reason I am in US is because I was not a law obeying citizen. I was thrown in jail for what I believed was right. I did stand up to communist regime and pay a heavy price for. The MPK complex was surrounded by a hundreds of heavy armed police and even if I had a gun - I would stand no chance. Being brave and being stupid it is a difference.
December 15 1981 - I could die that night or have chance to fight again.
I choose to have a chance to fight again latter and that what I did. No weapons and communism felt. Guns are not always the best option.
About the ghetto uprising - the Red Army was standing right across the Wisla river and waiting for Germany to finish the jews. The reason for that upraising was that Russian told them that they will help-they never did. Russian "send" them on a suicidal mission.Jews never had a chance against German army alone.Never trust a Russians.

No. Communism did not fall. It followed you here. And when it chokes the life out of Christian Capitalism, where will you run then? They are infecting the Globe like a virus. And you seem to be blind to that. Having first hand experience, surely you don't see it around you. No difference? You may have died free, but, you would have made a point. And others should have made their point. If you accept Communism then accept it, don't say not to keep people armed against the tyranny of Government and Criminals, then say you fled the tyranny of Government and Criminals and found refuge in a Counrtry whose prevalence of guns among it's population made it an atmosphere you could run to, just to say get rid of the atmosphere that keeps you from being them, because it makes you sound like a Communist plant sent to undermine the American way of life. Perhaps you would prefer going back to a country more in line with your anti gun views. O! Wait. That's the last thing you want to do. Get a grip on reality, I believe, IMHO, you lost a grip on it somewhere.

Originally posted by die_another_day

Americans make it sound as if you don't have a gun at your disposal you can't live?

Look at the past 4000 years before guns, we didn't have guns, and people were not afraid of someone pulling out a gun in the middle of the street.

All of these are arguments used in this struggle.

Nope, we slaughtered with rocks, spears, axes, clubs, slings, maces, arrows, barbed nets, pikes, trot lines and booby traps,greek fire, flamethrowers, acid, poison, etc. etc. If surrounded by this or that what would I prefer?

To not be surrounded.

Americans are always being bashed by foreigners. Jealous much?
Whites are hated by everyone. Jealous much?
Christians are despised. Jealous much?
Everyone wants what these groups have, but, noone likes how they got it. Well, these groups are going to have to fight to stay alive since they made so many enemies along the way. And all others are going to have to fight to keep these groups at bay. As long as their is division there must be a deterrence for peace. Take that away and you have a blood bath on your hands.

Look at LA. The CIA gives drugs and Arms to two youth groups, then incite them against each other, the Crips and Bloods, a blood bath ensues. Now kids are killing each other and crime is rampant in the inner cities. Russia admits to heavy involvement in the legal and illegal drug trade in America. The whole of Federal, State, and Local Governments the World over are on the take. And the only thing between us and them is a bullet. Can we get them all? No.

I have a strategy that has always worked for me. I have been surrounded by many gangs of killers, I know plenty of friends and relatives serving life terms for murder. I know plenty of dirty officials at many levels, and likewise many criminals. I simply select the leader of the group. And I go after them only. I block out everyone else and go straight for the leader. When I take them down, I target the next leader apparent. And usually by the third leader they disperse. I make it a point to permanately scar their face. So that every day they look in the mirror they remember me. Image is a key to survival, people are self conscience of their appearance. I make them know I was there. And when next me meet, they cross the street. They decide I am not worth losing their face, literally, over. I have no problems taking it all off. And any who stand between me and my target, I block them out, I only see the leader in my mind and/ or line of sight. Whether I live or die, I am coming for them. And everyone else just seems to not be able to hold onto me, and their blows just don't seem to phase me, I've been cut and not even noticed, I just zone out and go straight for my target. I walked through these guys, completely unarmed, they were all packing, I drove myself right into them, they couldn't target me without the others getting in the way. I didn't need a gun, I just took theirs-- and they ran like hell, everytime. Because I know how heirarchy and power works. Take out the source not the symptoms. take out the leaders, not the followers. And if we all had guns, loaded or not, they don't know, then they wouldn't have existed in the first place. Don't like guns, fine, don't use them, fine, don't load them, fine, but, possess an unloaded one so they have no idea whether it's loaded or if you'll use it or not.

Do you understand that. I have access to weapons, but, do not carry or use them. I grew up in an are of high rates of murder, where cops are as crooked as criminals, where law abiding citizen's are the criminals, and unarmed, I face them, cop or not, when they deserve and need facing, I am not afraid to die, because, broke, unfamous, unromantic, I truly live. And even I know that if everyone were armed there would be more peace in the world. That if every country had nukes, none would war. Not even Iran, despite lies and propoganda to the contrary, what good is the Messiah, the AntiChrist, or the 12th Iman if everyone is dead or dying from radiation poioning? Useless, that's what they are, and you can tell God I said that, I'm right here. i'm an Athiest, and I have more respect for man than to leave them unarmed. And if they don't think it can't happen, well, they won't disarm you physically, they will disarm your mind first. And these non gun carrying countries that live in relative peace, duh, that's only because you are being used as a symbol to remove the gun prop gun owners stand on, then, when the mindset and example runs it's course and the generation's are converted to the mindset they place before them and they voluntarily become anti gun, and the gun prop has been sufficiently diffused, during the disbelief and disorientation of the gun owners, they'll sweep in with a vengeance and overwhelm them, they'll be disarmed or they will die. Then, the true colors will be bared, and no country's populace will have guns. The gun trade to the criminals will cease, they will let their weapons fall into obscurity or hire them out and set them on each other over trivial controversies, like they do world military's now, and ultimately, remove their last obstacle to global conquest, and then, all will suffer under the boot of tyranny, even those non gun owning countries who once were the example of how good it could be. History repeats itself because they are in a stage of trial and error trying to constantly refine it to a Masterpiece, and it is fast becoming a well played artform.

It's a simple enough concept. But, people are so brainwashed that they actually believe their arguments against guns have any merit. You are more of a threat to free men than tyranny ever could be, because you are tyranny's handmaiden.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

As I've declared before in this very thread, the issue is not about which weapons we choose to express our savagery toward one another. The crime rate in the USA is a reflection of deteriorating morality and deteriorating respect for life, property and authority. Take away our guns tomorrow, if you dare, or halt the manufacture of ammunition, and the problem of bad brains is still there.

Currently, there are about 220 million firearms legally owned by some 80 million Americans. These are small arms, for the most part — but even a tenth of that number of small arms (that's 22 million guns), all pointed and firing in the same general direction, would be more than sufficient to decimate any military force on Earth. Body armor be damned. Now, 220 million small arms all discharged in the same general direction could probably vaporize any military force in the world in short order. If only 1% of these firearms find their mark and make a kill, that's 2.2 million dead.

In other words, the American People privately own one of the most awesome arsenals in the history of Mankind. Now here's the kicker — With all of this firepower, guns account for only about 1% of all fatalities in the USA annually.

Gun deaths in the USA have fallen dramatically in the last two decades, even as the number of privately-owned guns has increased!. You're about 40X more likely to die in an automobile accident than you are to die by gunfire. You're 5X more likely to suffocate with a plastic bag over your head.

The point is, all of this anti-gun hysteria flies in the face of the numbers (from the U.S. Census, by the way). In spite of the fact that we privately possess enough firepower to wipe out several nations, death by gunfire ranks near the bottom of the list of annual fatalities in America.

So who is bashing the USA with this "escalating crime and gun-related death" nonsense? I'll give you one guess. The USA cannot be assimilated into a North American Union nor into a truly global culture so long as we stubbornly cling to our American nationalism, to our sovereignty, and to our guns.

The global hatred of America's private arsenal has nothing to do with increased crime, it has nothing to do with Little Timmy snuffing himself with Dad's 44, and it has nothing to do with campus massacres, either. For Godsake, a guy in Japan stormed into a school with a paring knife, murdering 8 children and critically wounding 21 others! For sheer brutality, that surpasses any gun-related campus slayings in America. How in the hell can anyone do that much damage with a paring knife?

Again, it's not about the weapon, it's about the brains behind the weapon.

There are intelligent minds behind America's private arsenal, which is why the gun-related death rate is so infuriatingly low. American gun owners are hated precisely because we've shown that we can make it work. With enough firepower to waste all of Central America in one afternoon, we manage to keep it in our pants and NOT kill our neighbors. Indiscriminately.

In America, level heads prevail in the gun-owning community. Responsible American gun owners are smart and informed and are the most tolerant people you could ever wish to meet. They know their weapons, they know their ammo, they know their rights, and they are entirely law-abiding.

So why do globalists hate us?

READ MY LIPS: Because The Guy With The Gun Calls the Shots!

It's because we're heavily armed and independent and cannot easily be assimilated. We're the 800 lb Gorilla with ammo belts and twin M4/A3s blocking the path to a perfect global utopia. I'll stick with the gorilla.

— Doc Velocity

Only the criminals benefit from gun laws.

If that is true, doesn't rational logic follow that only criminals would lobby for, legislate, enforce, and judge on behalf of gun laws? Why doesn't everyone who know that ever finish connecting the dots to see where the arrow points? We are governed by the criminals. Why do we care what the criminal says or does? We can elect them out. Right? To be replaced by whom exactly? The next criminal choices in the pre arranged line up. Odd. People deserve the government they get. Why don't we just go all out and do away with the law abiding class period and just legalize crime for everyone and outlaw doing what's good, right, decent, fair, and moral. Why not just submit to a dictatorship and call it a day? That's the goal isn't it? That's were it all leads right? Talking about keeping your right to bear arms is moot, if you submit to known felons who are not felons because they exempt themselves from law. Why bother to defend you and your's then sit back and let yourselves be knowingly brainwashed by media, because there's some truth in there and you are just the detective to figure it out. Hey, Sherlock's, if there's some truth in there between the lines, it means the lines are lies. You are knowingly getting lied to. What was that gun for exactly? Under the second wasn't it so you wouldn't be lied to and undermined and robbed of your hard worked earnings and so that your little ones wouldn't have vultures praying on their credit before they are even out of the crib? You worry about the man with a weapon coming in your home, what about the man ruining your affairs. Didn't the old ones live for their word, and, their legacy? Didn't they use their guns to protect both? Isn't that why snake oil salesmen called politicians set out to disarm the old west in the first place. You may as well surrender your gun, you not using it for anything meaningful anyways.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by buttafuqua
I think what is under my crawl here, and what has caused me to play devil's advocate, is that this type of fearmongering goes unchecked and becomes accpeted as doctrine on the ATS website too easily.

Everyone wants to tie in all types of fabulous NWO conspiracy theories, as if this is all part of the master plan. To strip away all your rights, take away your guns, load you on FEMA trains, to FEMA death camps, and force you to "take the chip". This is what I take issue with.

A couple posters before someone was alluding to the idea that foreign mercenaries are going to come into this country and attack it's citizenry. I like a good story as much as the next man, but come'on man, that is just so far-fetched. You ranks swell on this board, and each poster trys to outdo one another with a more sensational headline. To somehow prove how this giant conspriacy is just about to show it's ugly face to the world, and you will all be proven right. Those of you with stock piles of food, supplies, amo, and survival manuals. You just can't wait till this whole thing starts, as this will prove you were not just paranoid, and that everyone else will be turning to you for support because you were so wise to see this coming. Then you can play John Rambo... Mr. Big Shot.

And what if they are even within an ounce of being correct?

Or what if they are correct but not for the reason's they think?

And, Europeans should know all too well how mervenaries are used against them. We have them here, we call them body guard's, security contractor's, and cells. Did you know that in Psyops Guerrilla warfare psychological trainig manual FM- 03, that cells are created and embedded within a populace, and await the command for fusion before commencing a coup, etc. that some are educators, scientists, doctors, engineers and professionals that are paid to disinform, planted to subvert, etc. In fact, folks like you for some reason make me think of them all the time and I can't help but wonder if you are one and it ruins your credibility all the more. Sorry. But, it's true. But, fight propoganda with propoganda I always say. Speak on, I will too. Only, I make more sense, I have over 183 IQ and score perfect on all my tests, well 98%, but, I purposely leave 2% off to humble myself, can you do that? Doubt it, I'm the only one I know who does that. But, if you can spin it, I can set it straight so bring ot on Word Jockey. Tell me why the Constitution won't work. You know why it does? Do ya? Huh? Do ya?
Ok I'll tell you, because it is the only set of Laws based on the human Psyche. Didn't know that did you?
The founding fathers were the representatives of an Oligarchy rooted in Communistic and Socialist ideaologies. When they fought them out of Greed frankly, they turned their secreted knowledge that they possessed against the Crown. They created Laws just like Brittain's, but, while Oligarchy's like Brittain and Russia use human nature to oppress, they used it to unoppress. The logic was simple, they were outnumbered and outgunned, so, they decided to convert the masses into intellects rather than just indentured servants. To keep America from Brittain they devised a Consttution that overtly authorized human nature, a complete reverse of Laws before it. They knew the implications of this, and banked on converting the masses to their new government and empowering the masses against the intellect of the monarchs and world dictators, and it paid off. Look at all who have defected here. Granted, many were sent here to undermine it, and it is effective even today, but, doomed to fail, because the founding fathers educated the inner families and some secret ones on the true order of things.

Mob rules, a right is that which none can take away, all are equal, a name and a symbol has no more power than the mind gives it, and on, and on. Read the words of the founding documents closer. They made laws out of things that didn't need to be made laws. Of course everyone is equal and noone has more power than we give them, of course armed or unarmed the majority outnumber and control the few. Of course their is government, but, only because of slick words and intimidating gestures, but, it's so fragile that if you pudsh too far, too fast, it will fade just that quick. Of course you have rights, they give you privelages like driving right? Wrong. You have a right to do whatever you want, they can only stop you if you stop yourself or they make you or you let them. If they make you then you had to be stopped because you had the right to do it a right being simply doing it. A criminal has the right to break the law, a law abiding citizen has a right to stop them. But, we all have a right to stop leading or following, every bit as we all have a right to lead or follow. Because we have a right to do or not do what we are going to do, so does the next person. The only reason I agree to not do certain things is if you stop doing them to, I won't do unto you if you don't do unto me. If you do, then, game on. I will inside trade, because, my leaders have made it law that they can, so, any law or means of enforce4ment to stop me, well, that's your right, but, it's my right to follow the example of my leaders and do as they do. Martha Stewart should have never been jailed, by the same people that do as they accuse her of no less. Only a fool doesn't realize that all powers not enumerated belong to the people, but, guess what, all laws enumerated to Government and State belong to the people too, who do you think the Government or State is, all they do is limit what rights the entities have not the individuals that wholly make it up.

Fear Mongering, Racist, Hater, these are words of frustration, like a psychic prediction or arbitrary statistics and polls they are vague, ambiguous, broad scoped implications that convey neither the energy or the depth of an idea, because, they are deliberately intended to side step debate into the classic nature based game strategy theory of Tit for Tat, which lends credence all the more to someone else buttering your bread, whether paid or not, be it an organization or a group. It is pandering to the appearance of debate but actual leads to a cycle of chicken and egg, or, Tit for Tat, which is irrational and makes the participants lose sight of the true issue: Who pulls Obama's string's and will they make him ban guns? FRBank&Y.

reply to post by j2000


Been lost educating myself. Don't worry, I'll always bee around, if only lurking in the shadows.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


WOW! That was beautiful. Still, I think better arms for a better defended opponent is a great advantage to those of us who have it, but the thought of all those little handgun's going off in one chorus singing Bang, die bad guy, to the top of their tiny little lungs, well, it brings a tear of joy to my otherwise emotionless heart.

That was so beautiful, if only my grandaddy was still alive to read your words.

Just...WOW!

[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by mattguy404
Governments will always have bigger guns, bigger bombs, bigger everything compared to what a civilian population will have.

But anyway, I'm staying on the fence on this one...

I come form a country with strict gun control, so I guess I don't know any better.

You know, history teaches that during the time of Yeshua (Jesus) there were over 2000 people registered under that name. One of them was a conspiracy theorist of sorts. A doomsayer, kinda like the town bum who stands on the corner in a big city and holding the cardboard sign crying how the end is near. Well, one day, Jesus was standing on the town wall, as he did every day, crying how the end is near, the is coming, the end is at hand, the end... he was shot off the wall, the first recorded casualty in the fall of the city. Jesus was the first to go. He stood on the fence, also. See an irony here? I see several.

Actually "thou shall not murder" was translated recently and approved by Vatican, but the original verse stated "Thou shall no kill" and yes - according to God Law - any form of killing it is wrong, but can not be judge by a man and therefore can not be brought in a court of a law.
Consider this: If the law enforcement will enforce current gun law then no one with a criminal history will have a gun and no gang member will have a gun.

OK. Clearly you are not scholarly in Hebrew, first off, translator is traitor. Monotheism is a mockery of it's Elohimistic Holy Writings. The first 13 usages in Genesis for LORD is Elohim (EL Plural) not ELOI (El singular). That Abraham is the son of, Terah, the recorded High Preist of the Pagan Temple and that like father like son, so was he, is missed entirely. Not using Vowels then TRH is remarkably able to, since vowels were later inserted before or after all letters, read as Terah or TORAH, and that in Judaism Abraham is Abram or Abraham, in Christianity the same, through his son Ishmael in Islamic becoms Ibri or Ibriham, and in the Asian religions, just over the desert and past the mountain they supposedly never climbed, becomes, Brahma or Aham Brahaman (I AM Brahma-- the ultimate state of being one with all, Nirvana-- or I AM THAT I AM) and in Pagan, well, that would be the Asian Religions. Hmm, wonder how that is. And everything in the BIBLE can be charted using Ancient astrology, Everything Moses did can, even the 13 tribes, that's right 13. It looks like 12 in keeping with the zodiac signs of Abraham's Temple, DURANKI (Bond Heaven/ Earth) of the Pagan UR of the Chaldean's whom he represented. His daughter (the Virgin) headed a tribe before they entered Canaan, she was removed and replaced by Dan and Ben (the Twins) after entering Canaan.

Everythingdescribed in the Revelation's is the scientific explanation of what will happen as the sun gets older, hotter, even blood red which will reflect in a blood red moon, before it dwindles and dies, thus bringing mankind's guaranteed extinction, or Apocolypse. Which higher temperatures, increased plagues, etc. would lead to many deaths before those left kill each other for the remaining resources and straight feverish insanity, the high temperatures would lead to hallucinations, mirages, delusions, psychosis of all kinds so that man will turn on his own family and prophesy like crazy.

I could do this all day, and I'm an Athiest, however, are you sure you trust the translations to be any more honest than politicians?

Why should a criminal history keep you from owning a gun, if you are that much of a threat, why are you free. Makes more sense that war kills the brave, crimnalizing rebellious individuals, cleans up the brave. With your best and bravest dominant forces eliminated or incarcerated or prevented from being armed who's left...you? Sorry, taking a breath, my sides hurt like hell


[edit on 20-2-2009 by PhyberDragon]