American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009-Oh man....

A friend emailed me a certified Adobe pdf copy of Obama's new stimulus plan that he signed today. My friend has a polar opposit additude on todays government than I do, but he sent it to all his friends under this pretense: Like it or not, here it is, and if you really want to dislike it at least you will have an informed opinion.

To be prefectly honest, I dont speak very much attourney jargin. There is alot of that in this document. But I did understand enough to realize that the better part of the spending done in the new stimulus package is going to the Federal Government.

I was sick to my stomach as I flipped through the some 1000 pages of text. The majority of this bill is helping to make BIG BROTHER even BIGGER.

I dont know how to post the document here, but I will post the email and the website that my friend found the document at...

Here it is...

"In the interest of preventing anyone from believing any (of the many likely) lies that may come your way regarding the new stimulus bill, I have managed (not easily) to locate a full copy of the new American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 at the Government Printing Office on-line site. Rather that rely on those with axes to grind for info on this, here is an opportunity to see for yourself what is in this bill.

It is a slog, but if it's worth worrying about, it's worth knowing the truth about. If you find anything you don't like (and can't find justification for), at least you will know that you actually have a genuine reason to be upset.

[email protected]


Any thoughts????

Yes. My thoughts are:

The Stimulus swindled us!!

Another fine piece of garbage legislation. Everybody bend over and grab your ankles. Here comes uncle-sam again with another unwanted sepository.

"Whatever else can be said for or against the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, from my initial reading of its provisions, I believe that there has never been a bill passed in the history of this country that has provided for greater transparency of its implementation. Almost every single act of expenditure is required to be listed on a new government site: Recovery.gov.

Anyone, at any time, will be able to go to that site and review the money being spent on every project for which funds from this act will be used, as well as justifications for each expenditure. In addition, the site provides the ability to question any expenditure that a citizen finds questionable.

Transparency may not yet have permeated every branch of our federal government, and will never where genuine security questions are involved, but in the case of this bill, we have reached a level of transparency on a par with pure air, and, provided it all plays out as stated and required therein, an extremely high level of accountability.

Bush and Cheney have left the building!!!"



Whatever anyone believes is happening here with our new President and current government, I sure hope things will be as "transparent" and "open" as my good friend here believes.

I have my reservations, and doubts, but I will always strive to hope for the best, and expect the worst. And I also choose to be a glass is half full kinda guy, because anything less in todays day and age will no doubt leave you feeling pretty empty. Just my thoughts, take em or leave em.

I saw a small tidbit on CNN today and it made me sick. They explained that money would go to the States and then the states would fix roads and Bridges. This would create jobs. We the US citizens that didnt get any of these jobs and already have jobs, would recieve back $18 a week in our pay checks for this in a tax break.

How does that help the economy????

So they maybe employ 100 folks to work on roads? that isnt going to help all the folks that have been layed off. And if we still have a job yeah we make an extra $18 a week big freken deal. That isnt much believe me. And if hubby lost his job that wont pay his part of the bills will it. or the other way around.

Oh and Obama stated that no family would ever be below the Poverty line again?? What does that mean For Amy and her 4 kids? Amy is on Disability and has to support herself and 4 children on a bit less then $700 a month thats way less then the poverty line. Will Obama give her a $1000 Check per month to bring her up to the poverty line?

[edit on 17-2-2009 by pmbhuntress]

Well just like unemployment figures do not count everyone that does not have a job or had to make a huge paycut to have some income. So too can the definition of the poverty line be adjusted.

The cynic in me wants to say that so long as you have a free nickel then you are no longer in poverty...

The problem that I have is that the federal government is not going to take responsibility for the unemployed and struggling. It passes the buck back to the states to handle the details. Yet the states have their own problems with loss of tax revenue and are not as free to create committees to facilitate both infrastructure and employment gains. I foresee that the federal funds going to that states will be used to maintain the status quo with priorities being education, welfare and unemployment obligations.

This of course will do nothing with the base problem of employers not expanding operations. Ultimately it would be just as effective to have distributed $787 billion to the states and said to spend it all on new law enforcement officers. Which come to think of it, could have potentially put more money into local economies to encourage businesses to expand to capture some of that cash in sales.

By giving the money directly to where money ends up going does not encourage growth in the slightest.

First thing I have to say is me and your god friend would not see eye to eye on the government.

Second where is the link to the certified copy? I want to start reading it. I'd like to check it out myself to see if I can find all the goose eggs they left for us.

I doubt that this stimulus is going to do anything. The construction companies are only going to hire the minimum amount of people they need to do the project if they already don't have enough people already to do the project.

The congress coned us.

reply to post by Ahabstar


I do know some of the cash is going to the police, fire stations, and other things like that. Obama was talking about that today. He said that way they wouldnt be layed off.

Originally posted by pmbhuntress
I saw a small tidbit on CNN today and it made me sick. They explained that money would go to the States and then the states would fix roads and Bridges. This would create jobs. We the US citizens that didnt get any of these jobs and already have jobs, would recieve back $18 a week in our pay checks for this in a tax break.

How does that help the economy????

So they maybe employ 100 folks to work on roads? that isnt going to help all the folks that have been layed off. And if we still have a job yeah we make an extra $18 a week big freken deal. That isnt much believe me. And if hubby lost his job that wont pay his part of the bills will it. or the other way around.

Oh and Obama stated that no family would ever be below the Poverty line again?? What does that mean For Amy and her 4 kids? Amy is on Disability and has to support herself and 4 children on a bit less then $700 a month thats way less then the poverty line. Will Obama give her a $1000 Check per month to bring her up to the poverty line?

[edit on 17-2-2009 by pmbhuntress]

Yeah, Ive heard about that, and I totally agree with you. The fact is that we have allowed ourselves to become complacent with the current system. We have allowed ourselves to be distracted by IPODS and Blackberries and HDTV and Calvin Kline and blah blah blah. Over the years, we have allowed polititians to create an elitist establishment that is driven by money and special interests to flourish and grow in Washington DC.

People today define freedom like this: "Who has stuff." If your nations people has stuff, then your a free nation. If your nations people dont have stuff, then your not a free nation. If Iraq had an Applebees and a Walmart down every street, and 90% of the population was talking on the new ij4790 Nokia smart blackberry, than they too would be a free nation. This new stimulus package reeks of over-inflated government, but nobody cares as long as they can watch the big game in HD.

But, in an ever changing, ever evolving world, all one can do hope for the best, and plan for everything.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
First thing I have to say is me and your god friend would not see eye to eye on the government.

Second where is the link to the certified copy? I want to start reading it. I'd like to check it out myself to see if I can find all the goose eggs they left for us.

I doubt that this stimulus is going to do anything. The construction companies are only going to hire the minimum amount of people they need to do the project if they already don't have enough people already to do the project.

The congress coned us.

I have spent some time debating these issues with my friend, and have never found common ground either. Im sure everybody knows someone like that. But he always has an interesting point of view nonetheless.

As far as the certified copy, as I said I dont know how to convert it from my email to a link to post here. But I did supply the web address where my friend found it, in the top of the thread.

Ron Paul said that the congressmen got the complete version the night before they had to make their vote on it. Ill tell you what, man, as I flipped through this thing, I realized that youd probably need a month to go through and understand everything. No one who may have had an opposing vote had a chance to read it! Dems got the majority, so........
GET IN, SHUT UP, SIT DOWN, AND HOLD ON!

Thats not a web address, thats an email address. Any address with @ in it is an email address.

Got a real working link?


Cheers!!!!

OK guys, this isnt a certified pdf copy of HR1 like my friend emailed me..... but it is a link to a web site that has the document for viewing.


www.scribd.com...

Check it out and let me know what you find.

reply to post by pmbhuntress


Not to sound harsh, because I don't mean to be, but in all honesty Obama has said all kinds of crap in pushing this that downright conflict and contradict himself to the point that very little if any is believable.

The premise that spending the additional $878 billion and only stating that this will only gain or retain 3-4 million jobs is beyond ridiculous. 878 billion divided by 4million is 219500. $219,500 sounds like a heck of a wage right? Divide that 35, the minimal average years one of these lucky 4 million would work....$6371.43 per year.

That is if the whole amount was just a lottery for 4 million winners on a 35 year payment schedule.

An honest to god radical emergency stimulus would be to:

1. eliminate direct income tax...which would be an instant raise for all workers.
2. make up for federal revenues by charging a fair import duty
3. businesses no longer having to make matching contributions would have a surge in investment capitol
4. with the increase available personal income, money would be spent, invested or saved in banks (more investment) or perhaps be converted into start up small businesses
5. to avoid import duties manufacturers, may look at domestic production

Total cost to taxpayer: zero. nada. nothing.
Total cost to government: zero. nada. nothing....other than actually having to do the job that they are paid to do in the first place.

And that plan would have fall in line with the Reduction in Paperwork Act than the 1100 page copies of the other bill did.

I just looked at the link I provided, and this may not be the most current version of the package.

Anyone have an easy way of taking a emailed pdf file and turning it into a link? Preferably that doesnt invade any of my privacy?

The world is the way it is, precisely because of people like you! Make no mistake that other peoples creativity suffered for your ego! A topic was being discussed overtly which requires creativity, and along you come with your Need to judge and poke fun at. Such has always been the case with small minds! By your own admission on another of your threads you watch cartoons, and if you think for even a moment that you are so powerful as to be unaffected by the nefarious content that so much television programming contains you are only fooling yourself as was just evidenced by you derailing another's passion, with no regard for anyone other than yourself! How long did it take that Gentleman to author that thread?
If the subject was so beneath you why did you expend the effort? Who were the people behind the keyboards discussing something of their choice, bothering no one? How would you feel if someone did the same to you? You are blissfully unaware of what you say with your words, a perfect example of the society in which you were raised. You embody everything that is wrong with this world and are very simply unaware of how!

Here are your words on someone else's thread!

OMG, I just read a hint at what this thread is about, and I just cant believe it!! Are you people friggin serious? Your going to continue to dredge up this BS over and over again, when there is absolutely no point to it! If you want to talk about "it" somewhere, go talk about "it" with your stoner buddies or sites that encourage that type of thing!

Seriously! Get the **** over it already! Why is it so important to talk about that? The rules say you cant, thats it!

Maybe some of you guys that bring this up all the time arent actually stoners, but at the very least you are definitely malcontents! You can talk about EVERYTHING under the sun here, except that, and it tweeks you out! So you HAVE to be drama queens and bring this crap up every other day.

Like I said......WHO CARES! GET OVER IT!

No seriously, this kind of thing just gets under my skin. I wish there was a "beating a dead horse icon" that I could post here, because I so would! You know, like a little smiley face guy with a 2x4 bludgeoning a cartoon horse with x'ed out eyes!

It drives me crazy that people cant just get the heck over this topic! Like theres some sort of hidden agenda! I know it IS a conspiracy site, but honestly! They just dont want people taking about this, for many good reasons, so why constantly bring it up?

(Notice out of respect, I did not use the forbidden term? Im not trying to poop in anyones cheerios here, I just think its ridiculous! )

OK, so theres rules. Big deal! Most respected sites have rules, and if you want to be a member, you have to follow them. Not such a difficult concept.

Also, how is this topic relevant to the NWO? Wait- before you answer, it's because you want it to be legal and accepted the same as alcohol, right? So some forums dont want you to discuss it, and the Government says it's illegal, so, there must be a conspiracy? I'm sure there are government officials that make money on it, but it's hardly linked to any relevant NWO theories.

Finally, can you think of any other "category" people who would want to continuously dredge up this subject could belong to? Because I promise you, we all fit into some category based on our beliefs. Why is that so wrong for me to mention?


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You just listen to the ol' Pork Chop Express here and take his advice on a dark and stormy night when the lightnin' crashin' and the thunders rollin' and the rains coming down in sheets thick as lead.... just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the poison arrows fall from the sky and the pillars of heaven shake.... yeah ol' Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm square in the eye and says gimme your best shot pal, I can take it!-Big Trouble In Little China

OK, so by your line of thinking, (since you cried "FREEDOM" like Mel Gibson in Braveheart) I should be able to go into your house and talk about how cool smoking pot is to your kids, right?

Yes, you have the 1st Amendment, Free Speech, but this is a PRIVATELY OWNED site, which has rules, just like you have in your home.

Oh, and dont forget about your hypocrisy, your post is defending the right to freely talk about "it" on ATS, but your telling me to take my opinions elsewhere? Think before you post man, you sound smarter that way!


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You just listen to the ol' Pork Chop Express here and take his advice on a dark and stormy night when the lightnin' crashin' and the thunders rollin' and the rains coming down in sheets thick as lead.... just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the poison arrows fall from the sky and the pillars of heaven shake.... yeah ol' Jack Burton just looks that big ol' storm square in the eye and says gimme your best shot pal, I can take it!-Big Trouble In Little China

Also, how is this topic relevant to the NWO? Wait- before you answer, it's because you want it to be legal and accepted the same as alcohol, right? So some forums dont want you to discuss it, and the Government says it's illegal, so, there must be a conspiracy? I'm sure there are government officials that make money on it, but it's hardly linked to any relevant NWO theories.