Most/all computer viruses caused by anti-virus companies?

Originally posted by KATSUO
it has been my theory for a very long time that viruses are made by 3 groups..

33%mac (and mac users).. obvious reasons.. lol
33%.paid. anti-virus companies.. (not the free ones.. what do they gain)
and 33% bored hackers who want to make their hacker names known to the hacker communities.

8-D

You should allow a 50% for various government agencies and redo the math.....

Originally posted by GEORGETHEGREEK
should allow a 50% for various government agencies and redo the math.....

Can you elaborate? To what end would the government make viruses for?

[edit on 16/2/2009 by Good Wolf]

It makes sense that anti-virus companies would release viruses. I'm sure there are unscrupulous people working at these companies who think "it just makes good business sense."

They produce a small virus/trojan whatever it is I need and we test it, and then develop an Anti-Virus code to go along with it, which we patch into our program to prevent any outside sources that are similar in code from entering.
~Keeper

Not true at all, you can say something like "similar in code" with computer viruses, you either have the footprint or not, if you don't, then you don't have a patch, simple as that, even for polymorphic code, you still need a footprint on where to base your detection. any way you put it, is not true.

So you own several IT companies? i wonder what they do on your labs.... and i wonder how you came to own them in the first place, from what you have said here.

And you can't use one virus footprint, or whatever you want to call it, to detect a different virus than the one the footprint originated from. The same way you cant use a fingerprint to identify someone who looks a lot like you, but isn't you.

I am dealing with this exact issue. My youngest child clicked on a ad for AC360 which is supposed tobe like a Nortons antivirus software. This Ac360 has inbedded its self in my computer and the only way I can get the pop ups and screen freezing to stop is to access MS task manager & shut it down like a program. I have tried removing this through the uninstall programs menu but it is hiding or not in there!!!!

ARG!!!!

I don't think so for one because the most popular two anti virus companys are so rubbish at detecting them.

I think everyone that can program at some point writes something kind of dodgy although most don't release them into the wild and the vast majority are probably just Trojans.

But saying that there are real groups of virus writers that do compete with each other and the antivirus companys for the challenge/fun of it.

I know of a bunch of very small but very annoying anti-virus and anti-spyware makers who make viruses in a shameless push to get you to buy their software in desperation. Some of them are really nasty, too. In some cases, the anti-virus software itself is malware, and forcibly installs itself without your permission, then makes you pay to have it remove it's ill effects.

The stuff is called rogue software. It's really annoying. IF mainstream software makers produce viruses, they're far more subtle about it.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Kaifan


Umms that would be in response to what we call generic footprints. And yes they do exist, not all codes for these types of things are unique, most software is created with the same idea in mind, they may try to hide in different places and execute differently but in the end they are all trying to get to the same result, that is what we attempt to prevent.

I dont' really care if I get spyware on my network, what I care about is if it can be activated and used and usually the answer is no.

I will agree that most Trojans are unique because they are mostly worked on by groups and not any one individual (the good ones anyway) so my idea of preventing those does not work very well, however patches for malicious software is usually created very quickly by other companies to deal with the problems.

I've acquired my businesses by creating them. I am a Network Engineer, were not you're run of the mill IT firm, we deal government and business contracts.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Kaifan

 

Umms that would be in response to what we call generic footprints. And yes they do exist, not all codes for these types of things are unique, most software is created with the same idea in mind, they may try to hide in different places and execute differently but in the end they are all trying to get to the same result, that is what we attempt to prevent.

I dont' really care if I get spyware on my network, what I care about is if it can be activated and used and usually the answer is no.

I will agree that most Trojans are unique because they are mostly worked on by groups and not any one individual (the good ones anyway) so my idea of preventing those does not work very well, however patches for malicious software is usually created very quickly by other companies to deal with the problems.

I've acquired my businesses by creating them. I am a Network Engineer, were not you're run of the mill IT firm, we deal government and business contracts.

~Keeper

I too, own my own software house, and that's why i don't believe what you said about having developers writing patches on your code for home made viruses, that will not get you anything of value, except for bloated code which is more complex and because of that complexity, even more easy to hack due to possible vulnerabilities added by coders, again, due to the code being larger than needed and complex than it should be.

Bloated network code? what good is that for? and all that bloat is for what, for checking against viruses made by your own team, checks that will never work for any other viruses but the ones you tested against?

That doesn't make sense, one thing is to check for known issues like buffer overruns or other things like that, and another is to add a defect to your own code, and then later add a patch for that defect, i just don't see the point in all that wasted effort, and that's why i don't believe your developers are actually doing that, and if they are, then you need to check what's up because that is not what they should be doing, and no, that's not a standard procedure in any software house, and i know about that, I've worked at IBM for several years, then at GE, as a software developer, later as software designer and project leader.

Nobody wastes time creating bugs and later fixing them, because for each of those fixed bugs, the code probably got more complex, and that by itself adds more weak points to the software, meaning more possible bugs that can become the entry point.

Oh, and something else, please don't get angry at me, I'm just saying this because i know is true.

You can't check for a virus from inside your own software, i mean, the virus will patch the exe file, then, once the app is running, it can't check itself and notice the binary code was modified, because it doesn't know better, that approach is not worth, it will never work, ever, and this is true, there's no point in going through a high technical explanation so...





[edit on 18-2-2009 by Kaifan]

Originally posted by cropmuncher
I think your probably right, it makes no sense for some geeks to make all of the viruses as they have nothing to gain.

The creators of the viruses obtains creditcard info, which most people use online. If they're just a geek, and not part of a major criminal group, there are 'black markets' for creditcard info.
Eastern european organized crime groups buys the information online for aprox. 25$/each.

Can't remember if the statistic was for 2007 or 2008, but atleast one of those years showed that aprox. 31 billion dollars were made selling creditcard info online to major criminals who would later use that information to create a fake creditcard and withdraw plenty. [worldwide]

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Beltha]

I believe many (or most) viruses are engineered by the same AV companies that sell you the solution. Viruses that "only" destroy your HD partition or FAT table come to mind.
But nowadays with internet being massive, I can see a lot of individual criminal activity stealing credit card info, passwords, that kind of thing.
So I believe many computar viruses are caused by AV companies, but a whole lot of them are also made by individuals.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by seb2882]

It's less of a conspiracy than you might imagine.

Though rarely if ever can companies be pinned for purposely "making work" via this logic, it certainly does happen... and not just in software security.

I know quite often companies will leave flaws in their design so that the upgrade looks more desirable in the future... where-as, the upgrade is often just a new skin job, little bit quicker, more indicator lights, and a new set of flaws.

There's no money in making a product that will last.



Of course, when I come across these practices I cringe... but I'm not in a position to do anything about it, nor would I want to intervene with a companies method of income.

Instead, at home, I merely protect myself from these practices by stripping down electronics I purchase, locate the parts that are obviously test grade or lowest bidder and replace them. Re-make the structure, balance the electrical loads better, and improve the thermals.

I basically re-make the electronics I purchase... plus it gives me something to do when I don't have a project on the go.


The software world isn't much different.
Microsoft has been accused countless times of leaving security holes and coding flaws in their programming... each upgrade comes with a whole new set of headaches for the customer.

Eventually the new operating system, though incredibly dodgy, doesn't seem so bad compared to how sketchy the last one wound up becoming.


Like a frog in a pot of water... so long as you slow-boil it, the frog wont notice.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by johnsky]

Originally posted by Sgoat74
I am dealing with this exact issue. My youngest child clicked on a ad for AC360 which is supposed tobe like a Nortons antivirus software. This Ac360 has inbedded its self in my computer and the only way I can get the pop ups and screen freezing to stop is to access MS task manager & shut it down like a program. I have tried removing this through the uninstall programs menu but it is hiding or not in there!!!!

ARG!!!!

May I suggest researching a company named Agnitum?

The only scanner that could find a RAT file I had that was hidden in a non-system drive inside a .EXE file. None of the more popular and others could find it.

Good luck.

Also, I have had the same thoughts the OP brings up here as well.

I wonder how many virus authors have been brought to justice...any demographics or reports on the number?

I've heard rewards are offered occasionally, but I don't recall any breaking news of such a capture.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by imd12c4funn]

I've been saying this for forever.

Say you get a new pc with whatever version of windows it comes with and a free norton subscription for however long. After the norton subscription expires it seems all of a sudden you are attacked by an army of viruses which usually leads to, in most cases I've seen, a complete system recovery.

I'm definetly with you on this one and if its actually true it's a genious way of bringing in the cash for these companies.

reply to post by seangkt


Sounds like you need to work on your internet browsing skills. Either watch where you go and what you download, or make sure your computer is locked down.

What do you expect? Even sites like ATS have inadvertently given people a virus due to malicious code in the images (hence the new policy). Use a decent browser, also.

[edit on 3/5/2009 by Irish M1ck]