New Age UFOlogy vs. Logical Belief

Originally posted by Sapphire
Preest, i've always found that to be a far fetched fairy tale. He claims that other people have also seen the same thing. That is something that cannot be measured in full truth. Possible reason could be that some people are able to see things others are not, and the list goes on...

Adam and Eve weren't human but genetically altered aliens created by the 218 species that currently make up a Federation that have visited Earth. Several thousand years ago, the main Federation, which makes up 5,200 species from 4 galaxies were in a heated debate regarding what involvement they should have with mankind after the creation was placed on Earth...after a small split, 9 species left the 5,200 species union and formed, The Council of 9...these species quickly created their own being named, L'ahcifr, which translates to Lucifer. He was placed on the Earth to bring about the destruction of mankinds foundations and set them on a path of eventual self-destruction. This Council of 9 are currently working closely with the NWO...

Now then...I know all of this to be fact because I "know" things and you do not and you can chose to believe it or not but you should believe it simply because you cannot prove it isn't true and not everybody can know what I know...now then...if you didn't know this was all fiction...would you be willing to believe it? Now what if I added that anybody who gave up their lives for Council of 9 would be spared the end of mankind...would I be wrong then? Is there a right or wrong?


(btw, I fuzed my lie with that of somebody elses...does it make it a better lie because the other person claims their's is true? )

[Edited on 4-14-2004 by Preest]

[Edited on 4-14-2004 by Preest]

So its ok and normal to worship invisible god(s) but dont let someone know that you believe OIL is here and many that go to church look at you as if your crazy. What an understanding world we live in.

Originally posted by jrod
So its ok and normal to worship invisible god(s) but dont let someone know that you believe OIL is here and many that go to church look at you as if your crazy. What an understanding world we live in.

I don't worship invisible gods but I understand what you're saying...the point I'm trying to make is not whether the belief in OIL is wrong...what I'm trying to ask is...when DOES it become wrong and when do we keep this belief from being corrupted by crazed buffy fans and crystal hugging channelers?

Who cares what idiots do, so much of human behavior is retardred. Just watch some televsion programs the news and you'll see what i mean. As long as their actions dont harm others then it doesnt bother me.

I love religion and wish I could do more to expand my faith, we already have OIL here that isnt from outer space: dolphins, whales,.....

I dont think humans as a whole will ever escape all the dogmatic ideas out there. Look at all the whack practice of world religions and all the the BS theories about ETs.

Too much ignorance is out there. Denying it doesnt come naturally for everyone.

Originally posted by jrod
Who cares what idiots do, so much of human behavior is retardred. Just watch some televsion programs the news and you'll see what i mean. As long as their actions dont harm others then it doesnt bother me.

Don't you feel that's a bit irresponsible? When and if these actions might hurt you don't you feel you'll be a little too late in the game to say you tried to make things better?

You can't just stand back and let people go nuts and not try to effect some type of positive change simply because they "haven't bothered you yet"...because when they do there's nobody to blame but yourself.

[Edited on 4-14-2004 by Preest]

Here is where I stand, I have faith that there is a GOD, because life is (living breathing thinking, animate life) is so off the chart in the realm of how it exists that there must be something more then just meets the eye in regards to a physical being.

But as for UFO's and Aliens while I can not discount the numerical probability that life does exist else where in the universe I have a difficult time in proving to myself that there is a logical reason why an Alien would travel all the way to this planet to just pop in and out of the atmosphere for centuries without leaving some long lasting mark on the planet or on the people of the planet. If you really are that superior to find our planet which is populated with all sorts of creatures then surely you must have the technology to be able to subdue and subjecate the population on this planet. Since I see no obvious evidence of this and only theories and fantastical hypothysis's on Alien interaction with our planet. I can not conclusivly say that Aliens exist, let alone that little grey alien are flying around in strange UFO's at the bewilderment of the population on earth.

To me the ultimate truth may lay in massive psychologic re-programing of the masses in an attempt to cover up what is really going on. Ie volumes of dis-information and loonys going around throwing out every conceivable idea to cloud the "real" events. No doubt the goverment is with-holding information on energy technology that they have had in development over the last 40 plus years. Technology that will change the scope of how we view "power" greatly. Since this has not only an adverse affect on our "power" Companies as well as in the geo-political arena as well. Considering that many 3rd world countries would want the benefit of this new "power" technology. And in the quest to remain the strongest super power it would be at the detriment of the US defence position to allow other nations access to readily available and powerful "power" technology. Just look at the controls put into place in regards to nuclear power stations. What if you had a system to make 100's or 1000's of times more power with a fraction of the amount of expense it costs to both construct and operate a nuclear power station. What about the weapons of destruction that could be built with compact high output power sources? How do you contain that threat ? What if a 3rd world nation suddenly developed a simplified weapon that could vaporise anything in its path within 4,000 nautical miles of the point of origin ? What do you do as a nation to protect yourself from that type of weaponry ??? Is there any protection. What if a rouge state combined this high output power source with that of an atom bomb. What is the multiplication factor of its output then ? Could you theoretically vaporize the entire atmosphere with a single explosion leaving earth a barren wasteland, bombarded by cosmic radiation and killing off every known species on the plant ?

What are the moral ramification of releasing this technology to the public. Knowing that with a couple small tweaks a simple battery could provide enough "power" to vaporize an hole several feet wide by several feet deep any any material known to man.

Now ask your self again, does the public really need to know about this technology. Would they be responsible enough not to abuse it. Would they simply wipe themselves off the face of the planet.

I fear the day that the goverment actually releases what they have been hiding all this time.

think you went off on a tangent there but a damned interesting one.i agree with you.

as for preest's original question-the line on what is acceptable in UFOlogy and research into OIL should be drawn at either when it becomes an obsession rather than an interest or when it it is unproved but potentially harmful (a nice example would be the bush lizard thing).

and i do agree a lot of the things you see nowadays is BS and has been made up by some lonely old geek who wants attention (no offence to anyone if you are)one thing i think is not deemed important enough is this : of you are going to tell the world something important have information to BACK IT UP!.there is no point saying "i saw this and they did this and then that happened" if you have no proof.this whole "its true because you cant prove it isnt" attitude is a load of crap.it gives all people who research OIL a bad name as they are inevitably linked to some wacko with a completely fabricated tale.sorry if im having a rant here peeps...

You should never believe any wild claims unless you can verify them yourself.

A faith in GOD is your personal faith to share with YOU. Retelling a fanciful tale about conjuring aliens or channeling with an alien society without having any thing to verify against is just trash IMO.

I will believe real UFO's are flying around earth, when I see one land that was not built by a terrestial goverment agency.

Until that time I will wonder and ponder their existence neither denying or accepting that they exist.

How about this, we have just touched the surface on understanding how the world, the universe, and our own minds work.We can not know everything and never will.Eistein once said that human beings trying to understand everything about the past, the world, and the universe is like a 12 year old child walking into a library filled with thousands of books, each in a different language, and the child is merely tring to make some sense of it all.Now that was one of the smartest people ever who said that we cannot and will not know everything about this large and infinite universe, so why are there so many people claiming what is and isn't possible?Every few years the ideologies of what we think is possible and isn't possible changes. .the world is flat,we will never fly, never go into space, never clone another human being, aliens don't exist!See what I mean.It seems that humans are going throught an intense learning process..INTENSE. And people can't learn anything while they are talking...or if they think they know everything!Now that is real!!!!

[Edited on 14-4-2004 by jhova]

Such a tangled Conspiracy web we weave ....

There are too many pieces of information from the past to say with absolution that these things do not exist, yet, not enough to say with absolution that they do. If war doesn't kill mankind, banging our heads trying to figgure out if '42' really is the answer to all probably will.

YES, finally people are seeing the "light" since you can neither prove or disprove you can not rule out that they exist nor can you rule out that they dont. What you can do however is keep seeking "real" tangible evidence by comparing all the data against itself and ruling out the cases that defy any logic you may have gained from the observation as a whole.

This means that while some evidence is just there for you to ponder, like an odd photo, or strange markings in the ground. Other "evidence" ie people saying that this alien (a Zeta) told me about this ancient race and that the Zeta are good and this other race is bad and they all drink Dr. Pepper, you can pretty much rule as being bogus. And thus you can sift through all the "trash" to find real tangible evidence that "something" is at work that we have yet to find conclusive information that fully describes what "it" is.

Originally posted by Preest
...I see believers fighting for national recognization of Lemuria...people CHANNELING alien "entities"...wackos sharing past lives with aliens...fanciful accounts of warring star systems...... Different dimensions are a great possibility but are we constantly to believe that the fat guy down the block with the ponytail and sandals was the one to cross those barriers simply because he said so?

Preest, I have to agree with your comment about the state of ufology today.

Sometimes I feel like book publishers and the Roswell tourism industry are the true benefactors of the ufo culture.

Meanwhile, all we can do is keep an open mind, without believing everything we read and think critically.

Originally posted by senshido
Preest, I have to agree with your comment about the state of ufology today.

Sometimes I feel like book publishers and the Roswell tourism industry are the true benefactors of the ufo culture.

Meanwhile, all we can do is keep an open mind, without believing everything we read and think critically.

Here's what I feel is even worse...so much crap is being fed into the UFO community that quite a bit of the time people with a realistic outlook on OIL & UFO's are being chased away in favor of the weirdos and now even the realistic people that are in the community take a non-committed stance against stupidity because they don't want to be offensive...too PC...too New Age...too weak to resist.

Preest, don't be discouraged. The silly side of Ufology is the result of the relentless gov secrecy and disinformation. The more secrets there are, the more the people will begin to let their imaginations wander. Then rumors are created, spread, and evolve into really outlandish scenarios and claims. (And don't think the gov doesn't take advantage of all this.) Such is the case with any enigmatic and controversial phenomenon. In an open, cooperative, and truly free society, the people are not as prone to fantasy to fill in the gaps and holes. But such is not the case in today's human society.

Just adhere to strict logic, real solid and documented evidence, and the results of serious and unbiased research which many seekers are involved in.

Indeed, I am confident in assuming that the gov knows the real deal (or at least the truth that the public seeks). But as long as they continue this level of secrecy, it is only natural that the people will conjure up such wild beliefs that separating the chaff from the wheat can become an arduous and life-long commitment. The simple fact is that without the gov's indulgence and cooperation, there will always be major missing piece to the puzzle; and the whole field of serious Ufology will remain incomplete (unless of course ET decides to land en masse.)

True to a certain extent. Even with full disclosure there is an ever growing group of paranoid, delusional, lone kooks, new agers, pseudo-spiritual "leaders" and sci-fi nuts who are just going to continue postulating regardless of "the truth". Truth doesn't satisfy insanity.

Originally posted by Preest
True to a certain extent. Even with full disclosure there is an ever growing group of paranoid, delusional, lone kooks, new agers, pseudo-spiritual "leaders" and sci-fi nuts who are just going to continue postulating regardless of "the truth". Truth doesn't satisfy insanity.

This is irrelevent because truth is truth, facts are facts. Only those vulnerable to fantasy will evade or overstretch the truth; and these, we can simply ignore. Nevertheless, even serious scientists often still harbor strange personal opinions regarding their discoveries; but this is not a problem as long they remain flexible, and continue to adhere strictly to logic and the scientific method.

Originally posted by Preest

When and how do many of you draw your lines when it comes to the belief in Extraterrestrials?

I think that right now I'd prefer scientific evidence more than anything else. The theories that are out there are interesting to read about and they certainly help to expand one's idea about what's possible. But I believe that science and fact finding are better for our consensus reality and personal opinions are just too unverifiable, especially when there are so many of them.

When is it time for people with a logical belief in O.I.L. to speak on issues they feel are causing the community more harm?

I don't know what "O.I.L" stands for because I'm sure you're not talking about the oil from the ground.

How and at what do many of you draw your line in the sand at? I see alot of the UFO community on the edge of being Hale Bop Cultists sometimes and I wonder what those of you with a bit of common sense feel.

I prefer to see and read scientific evidence at this point, but my mind is ready to go beyond our accepted scientific beliefs if I must to accept the truth. Those who become cultists in this area of Aliens and E.T.'s I think are making the wrong move when they accpet someones ideas about UFO's and aliens which makes the cult nothing but another controlled religion.

Preest, I am tired of you sitting back like you are somebody!You are not Einstein buddy, do you even have a college degree!You sit back like you are the all knowing, but even old people can learn new stuff, remember that!

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by jhova]

OIL = Other Intelligent Lifeform

Originally posted by jhova
Preest, I am tired of you sitting back like you are somebody!You are not Einstein buddy, do you even have a college degree!You sit back like you are the all knowing, but even old people can learn new stuff, remember that!

Be tired then. I'm currently working toward the last few credits of my associates in multimedia design...and you? BTW...I'm not "old people". I'm still in my 20's.

Originally posted by robertfenix
OIL = Other Intelligent Lifeform

Thanks man.