Tell It to the Apes - We don't need everlasting life!

try telling this guy that he's got 5min to decide what to do with his everlasting soul.

AND YOU BETTER BE RIGHT!

where does god get off handing us an ultimatum like that? what kind of whacko nutcase would walk around telling people to choose between singing the same song for the rest of eternity or going into the burning lake of sulfur? it apparently didn't bother god enough to keep the bad people from committing their terrible deeds. and it sure didn't stop the christians from watching it all go down.

how am i, or any other rational person, supposed to be responsible for my everlasting soul based off of a single decision? isn't their a learning curve? some type of warm up round? or at least a free throw if i get fouled? how about overtime if there's a tie?

but let's take this at face value for a minute. let's suppose this wonderful romantic story of victory and defeat is true. what do the winners get bob-o? tell 'em what they win!

how about an "all bills paid all inclusive trip to the golden city!!!"

15The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia[a]in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits thick,[c] by man's measurement, which the angel was using. 18The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.[d] 21The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.

144 cubit thick wall? wow that's some protection huh? wonder what they'll be needing that for? maybe it's to keep out all those burning skinless pedophiles that keep crawling out of the lake of fire! this place would be as good as disney world if only it had rollercoasters, cotton candy, a 7ft goofy and you could leave whenever the kids started to get pissed off about the long lines. at least at disney world you can pay on credit.

i don't know about you. but i'm not spending eternity without wireless internet! and i didn't hear one single mention of pizza/beer night on thursdays! count me out bob-o i'll take the consulation prize.

here's a short list of the "bad people." the ones who just didn't quite make it.

notice that:

your ...hole boss, people that cut you off in traffic, and irs agents aren't on it.

15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

no dogs?!?! are you kidding me? does that mean my maltipoo is getting tossed into the burning lake while mr. bigshot gets to sit on a throne and have his praises sung for eternity. looks like david blaine and houdini are gonna be roasted as well. and if you've ever participated or watched american idol then i think your chances are pretty slim too! which murderers get counted in and which get counted out? does war count? well there goes a few 100 million people right off of the bat.

rubbish rubbish and double rubbish.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by Mozzy]

[edit on 12-2-2009 by Mozzy]

Those are called parables. You need to at least make an attempt at going back in time mentally and imagining how those people thought when discussing those stories.

You could also think of the City of God from a functional-structural perspective. The City of God could metaphorically exist today, and the kinds of people described in the passage you provided are the people whose personal and moral character exact a significant burden on the established social order, and therefore contribute to its instability. If the maximization of happiness (to a pragmatic extent) for the largest, equitable distribution of people is the ultimate goal in society, then the way we perceive morality will be naturally selected for to meet that end in the most efficient manner. The way we accomplish this happens to be the politicization of morality, and the ostracization of people who exhibit particularly ineffective personal and moral character traits.

I agree with you in that the people purported to be running around the twenty concentric walls and engaging in moral debauchery are probably not indicative of the type of people we would consider immoral today. People had to be much more conservative back then to maximize their chances for the survival of society. Today we can have a fair and equitable society, which is indifferent to the existence of mangy dogs, sexual "deviation" or rather exploration in the modern sense of the word, magicians (they're lame but they might be fun for some people), and even an outright rejection of the existence of God Himself is not going to encourage the the dilapidation of society.

wait a second. i thought all that was required of me was to accept the lord and savior in my heart. now i have to go back in time to figure out what someone else is thinking to understand the reward?

at which point does the story stop/start being a parable? are the seven church letters parables? is the 10 headed dragon a parable? is god a parable? how come this book doesn't have more instructions?

Originally posted by Mozzy
wait a second. i thought all that was required of me was to accept the lord and savior in my heart. now i have to go back in time to figure out what someone else is thinking to understand the reward?

Eh, try looking at what Jesus says, rather than someone trying to sell you a "free gift".

at which point does the story stop/start being a parable? are the seven church letters parables? is the 10 headed dragon a parable? is god a parable? how come this book doesn't have more instructions?

Think of it like the movie the Matrix. Do you see where that movie is talking about society today and how it applies? The bible is like that.

An artist often tells a lie in order to reveal the truth. But only "those with ears" will see the truth behind it. Everyone without ears see's the action of the matrix, thinks it's got great cgi effects and action, those with ears understand where it is talking about our own reality today. Same way with the bible.

So, would you rather be someone who talks about the action, or someone who understands the truth being shown behind it all? Right now, you are focusing on the literal words, and so that is like focusing on the action of it.





[edit on 12-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


you must really like the wachowski brothers.

I love the picture of the baby ape, but seriously . . .

OP, what is the point of this thread?
Did you make it simply to bash something you don't agree with?
Or is there a greater purpose here that i'm missing?

[edit on 2/12/2009 by JPhish]

+*/+**well what's the point of your post? i like my thread.

as far as a greater purpose. wtf is that supposed to mean? the main purpose of this thread is to show how revelation is such an absurdly strange and freaky book it's absolutely shocking that anyone takes it sseriously. and more to the point. i don't believe anyone does take it seriously. it's sort of like watching dr phil; you hear what he says and it's usually decent advice but in the back of your mind you're thinking. this is just a dog and pony show and we all know it.

this thread is trying to show you how taking a literal view of revelation brings out the madness of what's written there. it's easy for people to give the most common answer. oh, it's symbolic. oh you have to understand the artist's conception. no i don't. i can read it in plain english. where are you going to draw the line between fantasy/parable and reality? how do you know the author of revelation didn't actually mean a 10 headed dragon?

what about god sitting on a throne. have you ever actually contemplated what that would mean? no self respecting diety would ever be caught dead sitting on a throne. that wuold be like micheal jordan walking out onto the basketball court with a crown and a bright pink sash that says "i'm the greatest" on it.

take a look at that ape. he's just been told about christ, that's his response. a big HUH?!? ME NO SPEAK ENGLISH. according to the bible that ape will be burning in hell for all of eternity along with all the lemmings, spiders, cats, hippies and mormons.

at some point your logical mind should kick in and realize that good advice can be found on any street corner in the world. you don't need 1,000 pages of threats to go with it.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by Mozzy]

I'd S&F you twice if I could.

...Not just for making some very good points backed by good humor, but also because, well, Penfold rawks.

it apparently didn't bother god enough to keep the bad people from committing their terrible deeds.

We have free will.
Even the little guy here can make a choice, whether to sit in the corner and be happy eating his Banana.
Or bite your face off.

Originally posted by Mozzy
+*/+**well what's the point of your post?

The point of my post was to inquire about the possible knowledge that I may have missed in your first post, or that in turn I may receive by following this thread.

i like my thread.

I’d hope so.

as far as a greater purpose. wtf is that supposed to mean?

I was alluding to the possibility that the thread may not be as self-regarding as I thought.

the main purpose of this thread is to show how revelation is such an absurdly strange and freaky book it's absolutely shocking that anyone takes it sseriously. and more to the point.

Not really, people are absurd.

i don't believe anyone does take it seriously.

Believing won’t make it so.

it's sort of like watching dr phil; you hear what he says and it's usually decent advice but in the back of your mind you're thinking. this is just a dog and pony show and we all know it.

Clever analogy.

this thread is trying to show you how taking a literal view of revelation brings out the madness of what's written there. it's easy for people to give the most common answer. oh, it's symbolic. oh you have to understand the artist's conception. no i don't. i can read it in plain english.

It wasn’t written in English.

where are you going to draw the line between fantasy/parable and reality? how do you know the author of revelation didn't actually mean a 10 headed dragon?

Does it really matter if it has 7 or 10?

what about god sitting on a throne. have you ever actually contemplated what that would mean? no self respecting diety would ever be caught dead sitting on a throne. that wuold be like micheal jordan walking out onto the basketball court with a crown and a bright pink sash that says "i'm the greatest" on it.

“Apples and Oranges” doesn’t even cut it as a retort for that one . . .

take a look at that ape. he's just been told about christ, that's his response. a big HUH?!? ME NO SPEAK ENGLISH.

Actually, the ape is probably crying and you think its’ expression is a “huh?” because of the anthropomorphic affects of your mind.

according to the bible that ape will be burning in hell for all of eternity along with all the lemmings, spiders, cats, hippies and mormons.

I must have missed the part in the bible where the animals were condemned to hell.

at some point your logical mind should kick in and realize that good advice can be found on any street corner in the world.

Where I live the only things you can get on street corners are dime bags and pros. Where the heck do you live???

you don't need 1,000 pages of threats to go with it.

judging by the current state of the world. We needed more than 1,000.

I have to say I thoroughly understand the questions being asked. And a logical mind immediately gives the correct answer. The Bible is a political, and possibly et, history, and true Spirituality is a journey within.

reply to post by Mozzy


You post is quite similar to most post that God bash.
Your opinion - God is some narrow minded old man sitting up there in the clouds more concerned over who’s in who’s bed, rubbing His hands together in glee over roasting souls in hell instead of contending with the suffering and the needy, and, you try to get us to subscribe to your version of God all the while you tear it to pieces.

That just makes absolutely no sense, and, the *version* of God your spending all this emotional bashing over doesn’t even resemble God.

In fact, I don’t think most people can even begin to understand who/what the True God is.
Though man tries, God knows man tries - thus the fighting and the bickering and the moronic bashers.

I say moronic because you’re gnashing your teeth and screaming out in frustration over a straw man/God of your own creation.
You might as well spend your time shadow boxing.

There is something out there - something alive and spiritual, something everlasting that always has been - and always will be - that is so much bigger than anything you can even fathom it isn’t even funny.

Another thing to save you a lot of teeth gnashing and a sack of bandwidth here on ATS.
True believers will die for their faith.
No way to fight that.

peace

Great post Mozzy (as usual). S&F

--------------------------------------------

I agree with Badmedia wholeheartedly on, "artists use lies to tell truth, and rulers use truth to tell lies". The bible is supposed to be interpreted as a fractal, in that it grows with us as we learn to better understand the world around us.

For example, originally the pyramids were thought to be just "pyramids in the sand" but as our knowledge of the stars and mathematics increased it went from being an elaborate "tomb of death" to an infinite "tome of knowledge".

The garden of Eden takes on a whole new light with our new understanding of Genetics and DNA. Nothing needs to be changed, just our "static" interpretation of it... as TRUTH. The bible is true but only when used as a lens to flow your understanding of reality through. To many people mistake the lens for a mirror and get caught staring at themselves for eternity. Forever will they be slaves to the moment, unable to accept the wavelike connectivity of reality.

William Blake said it best; "Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read black where I read white".

PEACE





[edit on 12-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

[edit on 12-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

[edit on 12-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

Originally posted by Mozzy
how am i, or any other rational person, supposed to be responsible for my everlasting soul based off of a single decision? isn't their a learning curve? some type of warm up round? or at least a free throw if i get fouled? how about overtime if there's a tie?

translation: "WHAT KIND OF SADISTIC GOD WOULD ACTUALLY HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY ACTIONS!"

look first off, the choice isnt heaven and hell, its life or death (nonexistence, eccl 9:5,10)

second, you dont need a learning curve because the bible is very clear on the morals one should have which boil down basically to "dont hurt others"

i know you and most of the rest of the world loath even the possibility that you are actually responsible for the things you do, but to make it sound like its ludicrous is... ludicrous! lol

and no, you are not an ape, your alot smarter than you give yourself credit. so comparing the 2 is like apples and oranges

i know it's easy for people to make this argument personal and say that i'm taking the wrong view of the bible. this argument isn't about religion. it may loosely be about a spritual path as previously said.

what i'm saying is that revelation is very clear, if at times seemign to be a little cryptic. we, as a species, are smarter and better than we were two thousand years ago. this may not seem to be the case if you focus on all the negatives in the world that are still the same as they were such a long time ago. but you also have to consider that our knowledge base and capabilities for understanding are much greater now then they were then.

if you can look past the hub ub and bedrock lvl "spirituality" you can see that revelation is simply "the kitchen sink".

and no, i'm not saying that god should or should not make me responsible for my actions. i'm saying that there are more than just two choices. limiting yourself in this aspect is paramount on the spiritual path. focusing on the two extreme options given in revelation makes you think that there is a thin black line defining what's right and what's wrong.

Originally posted by Mozzy
and no, i'm not saying that god should or should not make me responsible for my actions. i'm saying that there are more than just two choices. limiting yourself in this aspect is paramount on the spiritual path. focusing on the two extreme options given in revelation makes you think that there is a thin black line defining what's right and what's wrong.

if the bible wasnt what it is, then i might agree with you.

but even jesus himself spoke of only 2 paths.