Lets Talk About The Market

So, what happens around 3PM every day???
Like today for instance, the DJIA was -225 and falling like a rock as the second 3PM hit, it went up, up and up. Now it is looking like an even close today.

Tuesday had a similar last-hour.
Forgive me for being a market n00b, but is this normal? I imagine it is just people putting in buy orders before the bell to cut some losses or something?

Well guys what can I say today was madness. Im guessing Goldman must of got some inside info on how the banks will get bailed out in the "secret meeting" they held. If pictures speak 100 words then I say this...




Last hour of the trading day changed my whole damn perspective of whats going down. After a candlestick like this one has to turn bullish in the near term.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
Ok well the market is going lower today. Retail news was just Ok and claims not good. I think over the next couple days we are going to attempt the 7500 mark again. Lets sit back and see what happens.

There have been days of much, much worse news and we could see a 300 point increase..

Today we got some .. well for the times, good news (retail sales) .. unemployment breaks another record to equal it out, and we see a 200+ point drop.

Irrationality in the markets is concerning to me, when at such low levels we are seeing such massive swings in the markets. 240 points today is not the same as 240 points when we where at much higher levels, like the 11,000-14,000 levels.

Holy shhhhhhhhhhhhhh#### .... watching my live Etrade charts I am seeing the markets shoot through the roof! ...

I have noticed, when ever the markets get to close to the 7,600 or lower mark, something, someone saves it..

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


What the hell was that about?




At 3:30 I thought it a normal rise, but thought it was done with.. then it just shoots on upward.. almost near positive.. one hour, 220point increase?

(first time in a while that I have seen anything that appeared to be the PPT at work.)

[edit on 2/12/2009 by Rockpuck]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by tjeffersonsghost

 

What the hell was that about?




At 3:30 I thought it a normal rise, but thought it was done with.. then it just shoots on upward.. almost near positive.. one hour, 220point increase?

(first time in a while that I have seen anything that appeared to be the PPT at work.)

[edit on 2/12/2009 by Rockpuck]

I am baffled. I dont know what else to say when your short like me and you see that it turns your stomach. Fortunately I dont have much money in shorting but still losing money sucks

What you saw there was the government telling the banks we are getting rid of mark to market and you need money we'll give it to you. Heck if you need some "me love you long time" the government will give that to them to. All technical pointed down but once again it just shows you that things can change in a hurry. In the short term one needs to be bullish.

Bloomberg's headlines are even confused:

Story link says: "•Most U.S. Stocks Gain as Market Erases Drop in Final Hour; Coca-Cola Rises "

Inside the story:

"U.S. Stocks Drop, Extend Global Slump, on Stimulus Skepticism "

Obviously, they cannot change their own story that fast.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Generally when you have a candlestick longer than my johnson you know something is up Im sure many news agencies are making some changes. An hour and a half ago we were down over 200 pts then....wow what can I say. Time to buy I guess. Im gonna let my shorts expire. They are feb contracts so Ima just let them expire out.

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


In the past few weeks (since the Admin change) when the market was "severely negative" there has been rumor released ALWAYS around 3:15 ET that turns the tide.

And we used to b***h about Bush and market manipulation!!

3:15pm seems to be the time TPTB like to change the market direction (Of course only on down days

As per GARELJ on Marketwatch Post

Last Thurs 3:15 - Dodd Suspension of MTM

Wed 3:15 - Stimulus agreeded on

Thurs 3:15 - O's big mortgage subsidy

Edit to add examples

[edit on 2/12/09 by redhatty]

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


I feel for you in your position, I personally have stopped "Day Trading" and have used my funds to purchase stocks for my long-term portfolio.. I have added many bank stocks, as well as GE, Ford, GM, and several others..

These are companies that, in my mind, the Gov would never let crash.. and if they did, we would be in such a dire situation, my portfolio wouldn't matter, nor would my dollars.. so I buy them in the hopes that in a few years, their value will be much, much higher .. you know.. once we are past all of this.

The markets are to volatile for me, I don't have enough money to take the burden of swings like we saw today.. and I have been in your shoes more then once since summer.. It used to be .. you see good news, you knew it was going up, you saw bad news, it was going down. Now we could see a Durable goods delivery drop significantly, unemployment break records, or any other piece of bad news, and the markets could rise. *sigh*

For long term investing, I think I am getting some good prices.. it's like buying JP Morgan at discount whole sale prices..

I will be adding more metals to my portfolio though, silver to be exact.. after I find a place that can make a physical delivery anyways..

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by tjeffersonsghost

 

In the past few weeks (since the Admin change) when the market was "severely negative" there has been rumor released ALWAYS around 3:15 ET that turns the tide.

And we used to b***h about Bush and market manipulation!!

Who knows maybe that was government going in and buying up stocks. I mean to reverse like that ....that had to of cost $700 billion or at least close to it. Someone threw down some money and I think someone just created our bottom.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by tjeffersonsghost

 

What the hell was that about?




At 3:30 I thought it a normal rise, but thought it was done with.. then it just shoots on upward.. almost near positive.. one hour, 220point increase?

(first time in a while that I have seen anything that appeared to be the PPT at work.)

[edit on 2/12/2009 by Rockpuck]

Hook'em 'Horns!
And people wonder why the general public is starting to get suspicious that something big is going to happen soon. You witness enough counterintuitive stuff in everyday life and you start wondering if somebody is pulling the wool over your eyes.

Another instance is last Friday... we had headlines like this:
“U.S. Jobless Rate Rises to 16-Year High of 7.6%; Payrolls Fall by 598,000”
“Hartford Financial Cut by Moody's After Insurer Posts Second Straight Loss”
“S&P 500 Dividends May Decline 13.3% This Year in Steepest Drop Since 1942”
“U.S. Said to Hire N.Y. Bankruptcy Lawyers to Advise on Automakers' Bailout”

BUT!
“Stocks in U.S. Climb on Speculation Job Losses to Spur Action on Stimulus”

At that time the Dow was +212 and climbing.

Desperate hands, invisible hands... too many hands.

reply to post by redhatty


I always defend the President when it comes to the economy.. regardless of who's in office. It's not them that manipulate the economy, the markets etc.. in fact.. I would hazard a guess that they know very, very little about the economy.. when you look at Obama's investment portfolio you can see he was very amateurish about his investments, and the only good one he ever made happened to be a bird flue company that he just happened to support a bill for.

In short.. Obama knows the same, or less, about the economy then say, me or anyone else on this board.

It's not his forte if you get what I am saying.

They give him his que cards, give him his cliche speaches, and make his decisions for him. It's the people that the public forgets their names that run this show.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I have my long term in silver. I feel silver is going to out perform not only gold but also stocks over the next 3 years. I have that I just set some money aside for some swing trading. I dont day trade I usually hold on for a week or two. I shorted Goldman Sachs that is the short I am in. If I luck out at have a down day tomorrow Im getting out otherwise Ill just ride it out through next week when the contract expires. Wow Im still trying to get over that move.....

reply to post by Rockpuck


Maybe you are right, but the timely release of the "news" and/or "rumors" is getting quite ridiculous. As I edited to add above...

3:15pm seems to be the time TPTB like to change the market direction (Of course only on down days

As per GARELJ on Marketwatch Post

Last Thurs 3:15 - Dodd Suspension of MTM

Wed 3:15 - Stimulus agreed on

Thurs 3:15 - O's big mortgage subsidy

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

Maybe you are right, but the timely release of the "news" and/or "rumors" is getting quite ridiculous. As I edited to add above...

3:15pm seems to be the time TPTB like to change the market direction (Of course only on down days

As per GARELJ on Marketwatch Post

Last Thurs 3:15 - Dodd Suspension of MTM

Wed 3:15 - Stimulus agreed on

Thurs 3:15 - O's big mortgage subsidy

I dont think thats anything new though red. The 3 to 4 hour is when the big boys step in and they take it wherever they want to then use news as an excuse for doing it. The sad thing is the banksters have the inside scoop.....so much for a fair and free market...

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


Not to mention to move the entire dow in a complete reverse direction you would have to purchase a large amount of stocks across all 30 companies.. not to mention the S&P 500, and the Nasdaq.. it takes tens of millions to move the market in a direction by a small amount, we are talking billions to increase it by 3-4% in 1hr...

Simply amazing.

Still short are we man?
LOL

reply to post by tjeffersonsghost


But that is the point, it isn't anything new...

We are not seeing change in the way things are run.

Maybe Obama tried the change with the early Geithner announcement of a plan to make a plan, and after seeing how well the market reacted to that, and yesterday's barely hanging on to the point, then today's 200+ point tankage that was happening, they decided to try the Bush way, and release the news of the mortgage program at a "strategic" time.

The point I am making is that whether it is behind the scenes (the invisible PPT) or blatant in your face timing of news and rumor, it is still market manipulation.

Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost

Originally posted by stevegmu
I mostly trade in commodities, but have been on stock buying spree of late. I bought a good number of GE shares last Friday at $11.11. Now, GE normally wouldn't interest me, however, after I heard J. Immelt was named to Obama's Economic Recovery Board. I imagine they will be benefitting greatly from the 'stimulus' bill.

Your a brave soul to be buying right now. Im personally shorting till the dow hits 6k and the S&P around 600. That just my personal opinion. You can always cost average down.

I bought SiriusXM yesterday, so I must be crazy. Of course I'm counting on EcoStar to make a big move before bankruptcy. I'm at 24% return so far this year-mostly quick trading GM and Ford, while I only averaged 17% last year, so this 'depression' has been good so far.

I'm thinking 7700 for the bottom, with the big fish moving in shortly after to scoop up the bargains.

Ahhh CNBC says the reason the market jumped was because the government is going to subsidize mortgages....*cough* yeah right *cough cough* do you smell manipulation?