WONDERFUL: Governments take without permission.

Everyone I know and virtually everyone in the world supports governments that take without permission. I feel alone in the shadows for not supporting it.

Why can the government take without permission? Because it is for the greater good? Stealing is okay when it is for the greater good? ... Or stealing is okay when it is for the greater good, but only if you work for the federal government. Or taking without asking is stealing unless you have a certain name... "uncle sam"? Are government taxes voluntary? No, not in any state I know. They take your money and they take it without permission.

The government makes the rules. Its a little odd to me that the only organization who makes the rules has made a rule that it can take without asking for the greater good, but nobody else is allowed to take without asking for the greater good "because it is wrong"... do as I say not as I do. Hypocrisy?

Why isn't being forced to labor 20%+ of your hours for the federal government purposes considered slavery? About 20% of my income goes to the federal government. 20% of my hours are government hours... 20% of my hours are federal government work hours. That is not slavery? I have a choice in the matter? I won't be punished if I don't put in the mandatory government work hours and tell uncle sam to shove it?

We all easily accept that being forced to work on a plantation is slavery. Being forced to work for the government is not slavery? Being forced to work 20% of my hours for the federal government is not slavery? Or am I to pretend that I'm not working for the federal government by force? When I give 20% of my wage and 20% of my labor to uncle sam? Or perhaps slavery is good and well as long as it is for the greater good. Perhaps we need to bring back plantations if a situation pops up showing they are for the greater good.

Oh, it is not that simple! Really? We didn't seem to need much taxes in 1776 in the United States of America when we revolted against taxes. We need property taxes. Really? We didn't need property taxes in 1776. It is impossible to collect the money through volunary means? Is it impossible to collect money for what is good for America through strictly moral means? Society will fail if we try to live a life where we do not advocate taking one's property without their permission? Examples? Somolia is an anarchic mess because there was too little taxes and no generous people there? The solution to Somolia's problems is taxes?

Our roads are necessary. Perhaps there is a moral means of collecting the resources to build and maintain them. Food is necessary. Perhaps there is a moral means of collecting the resources needed to feed our poor? Shelter is necessary. Perhaps there is a moral means to collect resources to provide shelter for those who need it? Perhaps taking without permission is not a moral means of doing so.

Perhaps we should not thow people in prison if they decide they do not want to pay the portion of their tax that goes to pay for the Iraq war. Perhaps we should not throw people in prison if they should decide to not want to pay the portion of their tax that goes to finance abortions. Perhaps we should not force people against their will to give up their posessions "for the greater good" because "we know better" because "we have higher morals we need forced on them". Perhaps we have low morals for taking their money with the threat of violence against them should they fail to pay up the extortions.

I'm not advocating no government here. I'm just posing some pointed questions that demand solid answers. I question the social contract. I question Obama's solution to our problems being forced labor... the "right to welfare"... the "right to a doctor's labor", the "right to other people's food", the "right to other people's labor". The right to take without permission, because of who you are, and because of what you're going to do with your spoils of extortion.

I wish the American people would realize they pay more in taxes than medieval SERFS did.

I think maybe you should think about where you are throwing your blame. Abortions and poor people should not be resented.

Maybe you should look to corporate welfare, and politicians that think we must keep growing the government bigger and bigger.

They like to make you think fellow Americans are the problem, so we can blame each other instead of them.

You are lucky if you lose only 20% of your paycheck to income taxes, by the way. Many people I know, lose much more of their slavery hours to taxes.

You are right to be upset though. I hope more people will become upset at the state of the world, and the thievery put on the everyday working people. If we are lucky, the whole system will crash, and we will construct something much better. But with my luck, the same people in power now wouldn't want to give up power, and we will always be stuck as slaves.

reply to post by LostNemesis

You are lucky if you lose only 20% of your paycheck to income taxes, by the way. Many people I know, lose much more of their slavery hours to taxes.

And this doesn't include the taxes you pay on anything else you buy except for food...not including fast food.

Yes, in reality we are all double taxed. They tax our income then tax us on anything we buy. They tax your property. TAX TAX TAX

"The United States Government shall TAKETH and GIVETH away"

We damn sure don't know where all the money we pay in taxes goes. But, as I have often said "the Feds have one hand on my butt at all times!"

S&F because i feel exactly the same way! 99% of us are basically endentured servants, and 98% of those 90% don't even realize it. taxes are killing my ass, i would be living a much different life if this double and triple taxation wasn't happening.

reply to post by mpriebe81


You think it's bad now....the burden we are leaving on the generations to come is going to be FAR worse.

They will hate this generation with a passion for what has transpired.

Has anyone ever really figured up how much tax we actually pay?

Suppose for the sake of argument we take $100 bill ....

$100 - minus federal and state and other assorted taxes
??? - minus what we buy to Survive off like food?
??? - minus the taxes we pay for services like phone, electric etc
??? - minus assorted other taxes before its gone?

I really think we are in the area of 70% tax on it or am I just thinking wrong on this ?

reply to post by mpriebe81


Thanks, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one to feel the same way. I'm even shocked that nobody seemed to come in strongly with anything to tell me how I'm wrong. Like Newsweek says, Americans in general have become socialists. I guess maybe I should point my questions at other crowds.

No you are not alone.
Many also oppose these tyrannical machines.
They were once elected to make our lives better.
Then slowly they were infiltrated and corrupted to make our lives worse.
But its just the design of it, that makes it easy to corrupt.
No 1 man should be governed by another, or even by another few.
Everyone should be personally responsible for there own actions.
Once you get a herd mentality going, then its easily corrupted.

I was wondering if we can get some sort of tax-exempt "religion" status. The religion of liberty perhaps?

I dont feel like being an indentured servant from cradle to grave. Call me a religious zealot.

reply to post by svpwizard


You're absolutely right.

And whn you shine this light onto the tax-lovers they come back with something along the lines of : "we pay that much and compared to other (usually European) countries we get so little in return?!" and the debate suddenly shifts from "end all taxation" to "tax us more so we can get all the neat 'services' the Euro-trash has become so dependent on" because the tax-lovers just love being taxed and the tax-haters figure looking to get 'value' from the extortion is a decent place to start.

Woo-hoo.

Destined for slavery.

Consider yourself lucky

Wanna trade places? I'm an indentured servant for 40% of the time. 60% if you include VAT.

I get free healthcare where I can go in for a routine operation and come out with MRSA or worse. I have to wait for months on end if I need a major operation.

For every function that I use, I face an additional tax. Road tax, fuel excise duty, VAT etc etc


Gotta love the UK government... with them its not only death and taxes that are assured; its also taxes after death.

Originally posted by svpwizard
Has anyone ever really figured up how much tax we actually pay?

Suppose for the sake of argument we take $100 bill ....

$100 - minus federal and state and other assorted taxes
??? - minus what we buy to Survive off like food?
??? - minus the taxes we pay for services like phone, electric etc
??? - minus assorted other taxes before its gone?

I really think we are in the area of 70% tax on it or am I just thinking wrong on this ?

I would say you are fairly close.

Corporations and business also get slapped with taxes. The amount they pay in taxes and the amount of money they spend on accountants to figure out how to pay those taxes all gets transferred into the price of goods and services.

So the price of food is inflated by taxes, as is gas, as are other services.

There is a very good reason why the most expensive places to live are also the places with the most taxes.

reply to post by Aakron


OP - based upon the responses you have received I would say you are fine.

I am not like you... I expect that a certain portion of my piss poor check to be gone
anyways. In fact I have never looked at my check and thought about the money I don't see, or better put I do not get caught up in it.

I will certianly be BBQed for saying it, but I don't mind putting into the system.

Although I would rather pay high state taxes and less fed, by reversing the two around.

I don't care if they stopped taxing the regular folks - but I do not trust CORPS- unlike government you cannot change them. So I am very pro top earner heavy taxation...
The only way I will change my mind on that is when I'm dead. Sorry you guys have to pay taxes.

BULLSEYE or CHRISnPITTS?




in fact I have a similar feeling towards the people who issue bills

reply to post by mental modulator


Do you mind that the money you put into the system went into the bonuses of top "earning" Wall Street bankers?

Do you care if the taxes that regular folks are forced to pay go into "too big to fail" corporations?

Do you think that a government run by people who don't have to pay their taxes unless nominated to a Presidential cabinet spot is a government that can be changed?

Do you think that a certain portion of your check goes to the government contractors in highly overpriced amounts?

High taxes are a form of slavery. A certain amount of taxation is fair, we expect a national defense and basic infrastructure. This however is different. The government extracts your effort, time, and sweat to further the goals of those that are truly in charge.

The U.S. did fine without the system for its first 100 years, fought a civil war and recovered, fought the European superpowers Spain and Britain (and won), hugely expanded its territory, and set the foundations to be a superpower. The U.S. did this before the IRS existed, I am sure the U.S. will do just fine without the IRS and its Federal Reserve master.