and you call yourself a patriot???????????

Originally posted by nemesis9
Nowhere did I say I had JUST come to that realization. However, I did just join this board.

Easy tiger. I'm just joking around with you.

But I do tend to disagree with you. There aren't all that many similarities between Bush and Hitler.

1) He will probably not take away the guns (hitler's great move)

2) He might have pissed off the world by not being accountable to them at all, but we have comlicated trade dependancies with other countries that we have built to use as politcal pressure ( at least my take on it).

Those are just a couple. But to be honest with you, could you see camps in the US? Not me. Guantanimo Bay might be the closest thing, but still, the ACLU and other org. are throwing a fit about that alone.

But I do tend to disagree with you. There aren't all that many similarities between Bush and Hitler.

I agree, the details are not the same, but a higher level is what I am referring to. The ability to get a following of people who have thrown reasoning out the window.

So you're saying that Conservatives are incapable of reason?

That's damned arrogant, if you ask me.

Originally posted by nemesis9
I The ability to get a following of people who have thrown reasoning out the window.

I beleive there is a group of folks in the United States willing to elect a guy with no clear agenda just because Michael Moore, Tim Robbins and Alec Baldwin tell them to hate the other guy. Talk about a lack of reason!

Sorry Seth, but here's an interesting idea, vote for the person that will help your country. You think that's Bush? Look at his record. I, pesonally think that Kerry is weak, but it doesn't compare to the INSANE methods of Bush. Who will he attack next? I wouldn't be suprised if it was the Swiss. And they're neutral.

Originally posted by omega1
my rant...... (there's more where this came from)

I'm sick of anti-bush talk. Guess what..... we are in a war..... so if you know what is best for this country and for it's people, then support your president at a time like this.............

WHAT! And you call yourself a patriot. As an American, I'll speak my mind whenever I want to. I have a Bill of Rights that says I can speak my opinion anytime I want to. And if that means I'm against Bush, I'll say it, and I'll say it right now. I hate Bush, I hate Bush. I dont like Bush. You are NOT a patriot. Patriots speak their minds, they dont back down from anyone. It's people like YOU that make me SICK!!! How dare you suggest that I back away from my GOD-GIVEN freedoms.

Originally posted by omega1
I'm sick of anti-bush talk. Guess what..... we are in a war..... so if you know what is best for this country and for it's people, then support your president at a time like this.............

Bush had his chance. I support the war on terrorism, I support the war in Iraq, I do not support Bush, and here is why. We had a chance to do so much good in Afghanistan, Once the Taliban was out, we should have swarmed the country with food and aid. The war was only 10% of the battle, the rest comes in the aftermath with rebuilding and assisting the people (Bomb them with wheat and rice). We didnt do all we could have, because.....

We invaded Iraq. Not a bad move, I agree on us being there, but....Bush didnt plan very well, didnt think out everything, and didnt have a post war plan. Now we are stuck there, slowly being picked off. There were many mistakes made in this war, and we are now paying the price in blood and in global prestiege.

this war will turn into a vietnam if we withdraw....... because every single family that was pro us will be slaughtered.............. If you value life, im talkin both American and Iraqi.... then you better support bush. All the more cr ap you talk about him... the more hope you give for the terrorists that hate you..

We cant withdraw, I agree, to do so will to be to turn our backs and run. This will hurt the Iraqi people and us in the long run. But again, IMO, Bush has failed to plan out any sort of post war plan that is effective. And with the recent abuse scandle with the prisons, we took a very very serious blow, one that may in the end cost us many many more lives, and a lot of trust on the behalf of the Iraqi people and the Arab states in general, it made everything a heck of a lot worse. It could possible be something that in the end may cost us the war in Iraq. You cant win over the hearts and minds of people this way.

I dont like Kerry either, but in all honesty, Bush had his shot, and did very well at the start, but as things dragged on and his policies started to show, or rather lack of, I began to see that he isn't the man for the job.

At this point and time, I am more than willing to give Kerry the chance to fix Bush's mess.

This is just my opinion on the matter.

I will always support the men in the field, they need our support, but to say and imply that not supporting Bush is bad for the country is just false. Its an election year, we should support who we think is right for this country, I dont like any of the candidates, but I don't want to keep a man in office who cannot plan long term.
And thats just about the war, a lot of other things that I dont like about Bush, his outsourcing of jobs is bad too.
And his smirk...blah...drives me nuts!
I am an AOTB...Anyone Other Than Bush....Kerry will get my vote this year.

I feel as if this is all about money politics and does not focus on the needs of the citizens.

A president which spends more money "securing" Iraq yet does very little to defend the homeland border is pretty much not working to represent his own people. But of course, illegal aliens make good votes... so there is the explanation for that. I do not like paying to give illegal aliens free services... services that most legal American citizens are not entitled too. To obtain these services one should have to be a legal/naturalized citizen, otherwise by coming in illegally, you break the laws of the nation and direspect the people of the nation. So when Pedro breaks his leg on his way across the border.. I have to ensure through taxes he recieves free treatment... while a legal American citizen struggles to pay his medical bills.

Yet he puts more on the national debt.. yet outsource jobs to places like Red China, who is laughing at the U.S. and watching it demoralize and weaken.

I wonder how this war in Iraq helps advance society and promote better conditions for citizens? The president is supposed to represent it's people. This war in Iraq is a prime example of a personal agenda with peoples lives being ruined because of it.

This is idioicy... trying to force a western style democratic form of government onto a peoples whoose religion/culture is not very compatible with such a system. It's not going to happen folks... unless troops force it.

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

Originally posted by Seth Bullock

Originally posted by nemesis9
I The ability to get a following of people who have thrown reasoning out the window.

I beleive there is a group of folks in the United States willing to elect a guy with no clear agenda just because Michael Moore, Tim Robbins and Alec Baldwin tell them to hate the other guy. Talk about a lack of reason!

There are party pundits on both sides.

This is my opinion in bold face:

ANYONE WHO VOTES FOR A SPECIFIC PARTY RATHER THAN THE CANDIDATE IS MENTALLY INCOMPETANT.

"ANYONE WHO VOTES FOR A SPECIFIC PARTY RATHER THAN THE CANDIDATE IS MENTALLY INCOMPETANT. "

I think those who dwell in basic party politics do so because it gives them easy awnsers to difficult questions.

They focus on the game of political parties rather than the moral/social issues... elected leaders are supposed to represent the people and to be a respected person in the eyes of foreign leaders/people.

But instead, all I see the useless debate over party politics than the real issues that matter to the citizens... it is like the political world is a private party and there are no people to represent.

I agree, the focus should be on the candidate and what his plans are to improve society. But as usual, it's the useless spewing of nonsense about political parties.

I'm a Bush-supporter (aside from the gay marriage issue), and a complete supporter of the war. I think it's fine that we're in Iraq. Someone had to do something about it! Just like how Truman was the only president with the Balls to drop the bombs, Bush is the only guy with the balls to enter Iraq. Also, he handled the nation greatly after 9/11.

And Bush is the only guy with the balls to send off hundreds to die, destroy international relations.. and to anger the rest of the world.

Not good for the future is it.. good diplomacy with others is the way to go.. as what the Europeans do with one another in Europe. The U.S. is still doing the primitive imperialistic policies.

Originally posted by RedOctober90
I feel as if this is all about money politics and does not focus on the needs of the citizens.

A president which spends more money "securing" Iraq yet does very little to defend the homeland border is pretty much not working to represent his own people. But of course, illegal aliens make good votes... so there is the explanation for that. I do not like paying to give illegal aliens free services... services that most legal American citizens are not entitled too. To obtain these services one should have to be a legal/naturalized citizen, otherwise by coming in illegally, you break the laws of the nation and direspect the people of the nation. So when Pedro breaks his leg on his way across the border.. I have to ensure through taxes he recieves free treatment... while a legal American citizen struggles to pay his medical bills.

Yet he puts more on the national debt.. yet outsource jobs to places like Red China, who is laughing at the U.S. and watching it demoralize and weaken.

I wonder how this war in Iraq helps advance society and promote better conditions for citizens? The president is supposed to represent it's people. This war in Iraq is a prime example of a personal agenda with peoples lives being ruined because of it.

This is idioicy... trying to force a western style democratic form of government onto a peoples whoose religion/culture is not very compatible with such a system. It's not going to happen folks... unless troops force it.

I couldn't agree more. You said it perfectly Red.

I just can't understand how it seems no money can be found to help our people here in THIS country when it seems there's plenty available for war and building hospitals etc for the iraqi people. I mentioned this on another thread and was immediately beaten up by another individual who shall remain unnamed.

Like you said, we have plenty of money to give our illegals free medical care. But I can't even get the foot support arch I desperately need, and my boss can't get the dental care she needs and has to report to work every day suffering intense pain.

I just don't get this. But I tell ya...even if our citizens were taken care of, and charity began at home as it should, I still would be against war. It just makes NO sense. None. Give me all the arguements in the world and they won't touch me.

Love is all there is.

Originally posted by KayEm
I just can't understand how it seems no money can be found to help our people here in THIS country when it seems there's plenty available for war and building hospitals etc for the iraqi people.

Becuase people in the US are too proud to ask for the help that they need. They would rather go it alone. Those that are willing to suck in their pride a little and ask for help, do get the help they need. Ever hear of welfare checks?

I just don't get this. But I tell ya...even if our citizens were taken care of, and charity began at home as it should, I still would be against war. It just makes NO sense. None. Give me all the arguements in the world and they won't touch me.

So you don't think that the US has any responsibility to the rest of the world to help whenever possible? You would support a new isolationalist movement? Great, it is going to be 1911 all over again.

Love is all there is.

That and superior firepower.

The words jingoism and patriotism are widely misused by liberal media.

This why I don't even listen to em anymore, they are so out to lunch they make America look like fools.

Here's an example of today's liberal news article about how American athletes shouldn't run around w/ a flag if they win gold for the olympics in greece next year, in fear it may discust the spectators and cause an uproar because of the war in iraq.







The spectacle of victorious athletes grabbing a national flag and parading it around the stadium is a familiar part of international sporting competition, but U.S. Olympic officials have ordered their 550-strong team to exercise restraint and avoid any """""jingoistic behavior"""""".
"We're not the favorite kid in the world right now," conceded Bill Martin, the USOC's acting president. "We are sensitive not only to the security issue, but to """"""jingoism"""""""" in its raw sense. That is why we are sending people around to educate the athletes as to the appropriate behavior."




Now if you go to the thesauras.com it means:

"bellicism, fanatical patriotism, jingoism, nationalism" Definition: devotion "



thesaurus.reference.com...



I guess theirs a problem now w/ American athletes running around the track holding an american flag if they win the gold?
But other countries can do it...

They don't understand that athlete's have nothing to do w/ the war.

Sickening. Absolutely sickening.


[Edited on 17-5-2004 by TrueLies]

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by TrueLies]