Discussion of Ruling Bloodlines Disclosure

reply to post by universe attracts wisdom



It seems that you've missed the major point, so I'll fill you in...

Back in October, a thread began here on ATS in which a person who called "himself" Hidden_Hand claimed to be from a ruling bloodline family, and that at certain times the bloodlines were required to make contact with their "subjects," abiding by the universal laws of Free Will and Confusion (explained in the thread), and answer any questions that they may have. There were some rules that were laid out, and those who abided by them had their questions answered.

Interestingly enough, this happened before. In 2005, on another forum (GodLikeProductions.com), a person who called "himself" Insider began a thread making similar claims and using similar language, though it was also quite different from the recent Hidden_Hand case, suggesting that these were different people operating from a similar position. Insider was acknowledged and discussed within the Hidden_Hand writings.


Here is a link to the Insider (2005) case. This document presents the thread with only those questions that were answered, and a nice intro which describes what happened:

www.scribd.com...


The original thread of the recent Hidden_Hand (October 2008) case is here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


There were many questions asked that were not answered, and a lot of side discussion. H_H suggested that it might be more valuable if the topic was collated minus any "interruptions" for any people who might wish to read it in the future. So here's a link to a page where all of the questions that were answered and all of H_H's comments are collated:

home.comcast.net...



Thankfully a few of us were able to get our questions in to H_H while "he" was here. Many were skeptical. Some were moved and learned much from this writing. For me, it was a moment of synchronicity because I had just read Insider and was really hoping that something of this sort would happen again and that I could be a part of it, and sure enough H_H came along. I immediately joined ATS and became a part of the discussion.

Not too long ago I started a thread here on ATS in which I asked if the ruling bloodlines from H_H's "Family" could make another disclosure here on ATS. What I got instead was JoanTheBlind. She is not what I asked for, but she has regardless become a catalyst for some interesting discussion. I am still hoping that someone of Hidden_Hand's ilk will return and answer further questions.

JoanTheBlind suggested that we start a new thread in order to discuss H_H. So that's where we are now.

My original thread is here. This is where Joan arrives and explains who she is, with some vagueness:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'




So there's the back story for ya.



JOAN: I think you should resume with questions regarding H_H's message. I will continue to answer. I believe that the thread should continue in this direction, and that you might be well-advised to refrain from answering further questions about yourself and your own views (unless you are willing to come completely clean about who you are, without vagueness, and regardless of any criticism you may receive). I think it is detracting from the value that may come from this thread. I don't really care if you're hoaxing (because I haven't fully bought your story anyway)...if you can generate good discussion of a topic that means a lot to some of the people here then it is valuable. Do you agree?



Keep it alive...

And, Joan, by the way I found this link that you provided VERY intriguing, and I would encourage all to read it.


www.freeread.com...


This is essentially an entire online book that interprets the Bible in such a way that it can be understood within the context of the Law Of One (and similar belief structures), again demonstrating that all of these things are more closely related than we might think. The basic message points back to something that is VERY similar to Ra's teachings, though some different terminology is used. It suggests a common truth among all spiritual thought, though it may be represented slightly differently by different entities who are attempting to describe the truth to the best of their abilities.

I am thinking of starting a new thread just to address this material. But that's a different topic all together.


Thank you, Joan. This is perhaps the most valuable bit of information you have offered thus far.

Yeah, this is the gray area. Or should it be skunked? I don't know.
It's not really important to me if her statements can be proved, it's about ideas and philosophies that exists, a little mix of the law of one and other stuff.

So Simmer down and enjoy, or if you think it sucks then simply don't follow it, I don't see the harm.

My short understanding of Joan's statements from reading this thread:

• she clearly states that she is not part of the ruling blood line
  
• she doesn't have any contact with hidden hand
  
• she offered to discuss questions and meanings regarding hidden hand's thread, and maybe shed light on it from her point of view, her philosophy if you will, which might be close to that of hidden hand's
  
• she has since tried to answer questions people have asked her that reflects her understanding and beliefs in a constructive way
  

Personally I don't know much about these issues, and I'm not very religiously inclined, and I'm still spiritually asleep , but it's interesting to me nonetheless. The more knowledge you have of what people think the better you can understand the world we live in, physical or more.

So Joan,
my understanding of Nephelim (according to the OT) is that they were offspring of angels (or the sons of heaven/god, (or aliens)) and women (the daughters of men).
To me that implies a genetical dependency (physical, race or species), but you seem to disagree, possibly more of a soul connection?
Or is the OT wrong here, and Nephs have an alternative origin than that of the bible? According to the OT they were all wiped out in the flood.
Or if the soul went dinosaur, ..., erectus, sapiens, Neph, sapiens, ... is it the fact that the soul has been a Neph at one time?

HH suggested studying ancient texts to cherry pick the truths, that implies the main religions' books, Mahabharata, Ramanya, Tibetian book of the dead, what else would be a good read?. Anyone can chime in with tips here of their thoughts...

unrelated:
about the international date format confusion, go to MemCenter and change your date display format to "M dd, yy" then it will display Feb 24, 09. Or to some other date format you like.

[edit on Feb 25, 09 by mimer]

[edit on Feb 25, 09 by mimer]

Miner,

Your take on Joan it is pretty much the same as mine. I don't get the alien/spiritual connection other than to say that all of Creation is of God and so all of Creation is made with a spirit. Therefore, if a spirit that originated somewhere else in the Universe wanted to learn what Earth offers, they can come here and incarnate into a human body. I pretty much got this as what was going on with HH. Only, because of the role of his House, they always incarnate into the same family line. You know how folks will say a child is an "old soul"? That could be that the child has a spirit that has either incarnated on Earth many times before or on another location within the Universe. Or, some of us have some of spirits that have hitch-hiked kind of along with the human entity and are "feeding" that entity information. I think this is what is going on with Joan perhaps.

I think that, because there are so many ways this can work, it gets confusing as we, humans, are accustomed to thinking of "life" and spirit only works one way, ie one person, one body, one spirit, all incarnated one time.

There may be one way everything and all spirits originated--thought from the mind of the Creator, but several ways it can take form. Look at how everything is said to have evolved from the ocean on Earth. Now look at all the diverse forms of life we have living here. Well, spirit is most likely the same only you have an endless number of places of origin within the Universe. Given that everything is One, All is more or less aware of what is going on within the One. Folks on Earth are probably some of the less aware within the Universe moving towards becoming more aware. To help us in this effort, "spirits" from other places or of other forms, have incarnated here or are hitch hiking along in a human being. This is my take on it. Thanks for giving me the chance to put it into words.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by Little Star]

[edit on 25-2-2009 by Little Star]

TANS: I thought you guys are "born" enlightened/aware?

J: I would think it rare that people are born this way.

There is this view on ATS, the idea of the textbook Reptile, or evil ruler but the truth is mostly less dramatic than this.

No, I don't think it happens that a child pops out the the womb speaking fleuent Egyptian, enlightening the other family members of ancient mysteries and such. For me it was a combination of psychics and study that allowed me to recognize myself as what I was.

TANS: Why would you need to be awakened if you are of a "ruling bloodline?"

J: Even bloodline members I think go through cycles of sleeping and awakening. If it was not so, they would grow tired quite quickly. It is similar to several ATS'ers, in that they go through periods where they want to know, and where they couldn't care that much about it.

I think if you see their existance as atleast similar to your own, I think a better understanding of them will emerge. It is similar to your own awakening, but perhaps more intense, more immersive.

TANS: And why would you need to be visited by entities when other members of your ruling bloodline family could have just taught you everything they know?

J: Lol, you have this concept of these old, old noble family lines where they are all conspiring, all working together to bring things to pass. It is just as, if not more, chaotic amoung them as it is here at ATS. All of you could be called a bloodline in that you all subscribe to the same underlying tenants of your faith. I don't mean religious faith here either, I just mean that which you accept as right and good.

But you have to understand that there is a spiritual undercurrent here at ATS. If you don't atleast admit it as a possibility it will fly under your radar, and you'll become more subject to spiritual forces by not knowing what to compensate for, what to do with these feelings.

Spirituality is a natural force, like electricity or photosynthesis, just because you don't beleive that its there, doesn't make it vanish. I am happy to see that most ATS'ers do acknoweldge some kind of noble or spiritual side to them.

TANS: It is not my intend to undermine you, it is just not consistent with what hidden hand/insider said.

J: I would gently point out that its not what you interpretted Insider and Hidden Hand to say. We all have our interpretations me included. Having an education similar to these two gentlemen allows me to see what they are symbolically and explain it in these terms.

I don't want you to take my word for it. It either clicks or it doesn't. However as time continues, I think that we will draw closer together in what we beleive about the Universe.

JIA: And do you ALL have to use the same writing style?
Surely there isn't anyone left buying this crap.

J: The reason why we are using the same writing style is because several of us are using our human intelligence in a way that is atypical. When an actual intellectual, spiritual discussion ensues, this is different from usual ATS talking, thus the strangeness of the style. People who are calm, using their rational mind, and speaking intelligently will all sound similar.

I: I am reading the first two links at the same time and they go so well hand in hand. One compliments the other very well.
There is a lot of info that speaks to my heart directly and I just love it.

J: I am glad I could be of assistance Inja. That is why I am here, to provide assistance. I thought an example of a struggling person helping others might be of assistance to ATS. There is so much nay-saying around here that, as said by I think Lao-szu, "If a man shows correct choice, who would dare show incorrect choice."

Jay and others have been quite agressive. They point the finger at me, and say there is the troublemaker. I have not lost my temper once this entire time (however, I have lost my tempter here and there in private, calmed down and continued in my civil behavior). I want to show them by example how these spiritual forces can be handled and mediated. Either that or many of these people are mentally ill, and still need to be attended to. I am not talking of ATS generally but of the ones who find some game in yelling at each other and taking things far too seriously.

JIA: What will your next handle be?

Maybe next time you can echo the name of Saul?


J: These are not questions, but the asking of them degrades the intelligence and civility within you Jay. I would ask you gently to respect yourself more, to enter in with us reasonable and ciilized conversation, and if you have questions, you need not even acknowledge my teacher status, but ask them as one person would to another, calmly.

If you get heated, then do what I do. Walk away from the keyboard, and return when you are calm.

I can tell that you think you have some power here. You do. You have made me angry on occation, but I have choosen rightly in walking away, and then try to find meaning in your incinderary words.

Jay, the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin and through all of history, were they born of agressive, foolish talk, or of Oneness and reason? You are allowed disagree, however (and for one who quotes the TOS agreements so much, it is very much against TOS agreements to spew hate speach) you are not allowed to do it unreasonably.

You pointed out an error that I had accidently performed. I am in process of correcting that error. I ask you know, reasonably and calmly, to halt in your activities that are contrary to the TOS agreements. You can be angry, however, when you come here to ATS, I and others expect you to be calm and rational. I have been here long enough to know this about the culture around here.

NT: reminds me of a bad weatherman "today will be partly cloudy, with intervals of sun, a possiblity of rain with potential for a clearing pattern"

J: LMAO. I need that NT. I found it extremely funny because that's what some of the spirits I converse with call me "Weather girl", because of what you just said. Its amazing to me how we all have these insights into each other that just flash in our minds from time to time.

cont.

W67: If we go by the assumption that this human life is indeed a game. Wouldn't going through these exercies, which may lead to re-remembering, be cheating?

J: There is a hidden truth to this. This cheating, as you call it, has a way of increasing the nastiness involved. If you keep your thinking at a certain level, it keeps Game play within certain healthy parameters.

TANS: Here's a snip from what Hidden_hand said:

Q: What does the term " generational member" mean? Which generation specificaly??

A: It means that one is born into the Family. The Order and it's agenda is handed down, from generation to generation. Only in extremely rare occasions, have outsiders been invested into the Family, and then, even these were of other 'esoterically' integrable lines.

So is your family that rare occasion where outisders that have been invested in the family?

Honestly, so far your own answers have been very vague, general and unoriginal. I don't know whether you ware trying to discredit hidden hand/insider or if you are just doing it for the attention. I think it's time either come clean or bow out while you are so far behind.

J: This is an interesting line of thought.

Firstly, I am vague, general and unoriginal. You will have to bear that particular cross. You will find that my answers have a lot to do with the question being asked. A vague, general and unorignal question will invariably get a vague, general and unorignal answer.

I hope that it doesn't discredit them. My understanding is that them teaching it they desired for it to be taught from many mouths. Echoing Jones, I am not the best teacher, however few are doing it, so I guess it has to be me to do it. If anything my example, shows how a person of low potential who it honestly trying can have more effect than several of high potential who couldn't care less.

So I teach. I've asked others if they can teach, but no one wants to do it. So it has to be me. I'm the only one I can control, so if I want it done, it has to be me.

However, with the right questions, I think you could get more out of the conversation, and out of me.

OK, I'll come out with a better answer for this. The Families have existance both multi-dimentionally and physically. HH decided to talk about the physical aspect. To ensure the continuation of their wealth and power, the physical bloodlines have found that rational thinking and the extablishment of family rules has helped them retain what they have.

However, via multi-dimentional connectivity, the spiritual ties extend far outside of the physical bloodline's limits. Much of God exists within the Autistic Legions (the mentally hanicapped), and in other places you would never think it would extend to. Because of this, its very possible for a person to be spiritually of a House, but not even be related by blood (or perhaps a better way of saying it, is the blood ties have not been recorded in many bloodlines).

What HH is saying is that the cream that rises to the top always seems to be of Starseed origin. In that, you can take the leaders in any given area and upon analysis of their spiritual origins and generational ties, they almost always have "old blood" in them. In a few of the cases, they are from other Houses (what was meant by "other esoterically integratable lines). Very rarely does a pure human rise above a certain level of power, wealth or control.

I have read that Stalin was one of the rare cases. However, there are strong spiritual forces that try to integrate the person into the House they are associating with, sometimes violently. By the time the process is finished they are for all intents and purposes, integrated into that Line.

Its just something that has been measured and found to be an empiracal truth.

UAW: What is the benifet of a bloodline exposing the history to the masses?

J: Part of it is in accomplishing Armageddon, in that the bloodlines require negative emotions to their person in order to grow spiritually.

A quick and easy way of doing that is going to a place where leadership is not respected, stir the pot a bit.

Also, it has a positive effect in that there is a curious relationship between authority and those who resist authority. As with the bloodlines themselves, they have found that only Starseeds participate in this behavior. Pure humans are at their jobs, enjoying their families, etc. etc. and it passifies and inspires the nay-sayers.

By the time Hidden Hand left, even and especially amoung the nay-sayers developed a facination with HH's words, many even studying what he was saying.

The Game is curious that way when you understand it better.

Another example, Jay and I. I was starting to notice that I wasn't being rebelled against, and that there was an imbalance occuring. With skilled warriors/players, we would have dynamically managed this. However, because of lack of education on these matters, Jay's performance was amaturish. However it did lead to balance. Did I make him do this? No, he was responding to Infinite Intelligence. Something outside of himself saw what was occuring and what needed to happen.

Usually in these situations, the rational person will realize that they need to learn The Game better. One of the ways I like to play The Game is through rational, intellectual discussion. It doesn't POP! like how this did. It raises the levels a bit, you stay at those levels for a while, every one bows to each other, forgives and leaves for a while, and then the process repeats, until the Armageddon impulse subsides.

If you analyse the conversation between Little Star and myself, you will see the correct mode of Accusation (the traditional name for this struggling with one another). She chose her "turf" (ie. House affiliation) by flying the colors of Jesus, and I chose mine by flying the colors of Seth. Through rational behavior and conversation, you will see that LS and myself have gotten into some disagreements. We did not filthy ourselves with hate speech and grandeous displays of agressions; instead we reasoned with each other. We accused each other, agreed where we found agreement, and disagreed where we thought the other in error. This is the proper way to work out aggressions. Hell, we are so good at it that we were even working on something beautiful and productive WHILE we were disagreeing with each other!

cont.

OK, I've meandered a bit. No worries. Returning back to the original question:

What is the benifet of a bloodline exposing the history to the masses?

There isn't really. Here at ATS isn't the masses. Sometimes bloodliners will come here to get a few dozen of you to beat on them a bit. It toughens them up, works out spiritual issues, and when done civilly, they just love you guys. And even stranger, you love them right back. Such is the nature of Oneness.

Its almost like we are engaged in some kind of mutual S&M fantasy.

S: My original thread is here. This is where Joan arrives and explains who she is, with some vagueness.

J: What is this thing with vagueness? So I'm vague. Until we learn about each other, we're going to be vague. I'm not vague with LS, Whisper, Blujay, SMC and others. We talk about all kinds of things in a fair amount of detail.

You want detail? OK, I'm a mentally-ill person with a desire to help other people not become so mentally ill. That's it. I'm not a PHD. I'm not a former high-ranking member of the military. I have connectivity to the Sethian Group Mind, I've been through a lot, and thought that this experience might help you guys out. Period.

I know you guys want Hidden-Hands, Insiders, Ickes, and Jones, but there are also the IX-777s, the Mabens and the Joans. This pride has to go, gentlemen. Perhaps you think you are of an importance that the top names should be conversing with you. That every once in a long while you might get to talk to someone like Hidden Hand, that will probably happen, but you've got to put up with the more mundain teachers. Everybody wants to talk to the Buddha, but show some humility and put up with the Devas that are sent. Golly! Who are you that they should?

OK, what I'm doing is getting on Suterlaben's case a bit. This is correct accusation IMO. He's going to get a little miffed about this. No worries. We're just releasing a bit of aggression...the RIGHT WAY. You getting this Jay?

S: Do you agree?

J: That is acceptable. Let's keep on trucking.

M: my understanding of Nephelim (according to the OT) is that they were offspring of angels (or the sons of heaven/god, (or aliens)) and women (the daughters of men).

To me that implies a genetical dependency (physical, race or species), but you seem to disagree, possibly more of a soul connection?

Or is the OT wrong here, and Nephs have an alternative origin than that of the bible? According to the OT they were all wiped out in the flood.
Or if the soul went dinosaur, ..., erectus, sapiens, Neph, sapiens, ... is it the fact that the soul has been a Neph at one time?

J: Yes, that is where Nephilim are talked about in the Bible. The physical line of Adam/Eve married into the indiginous humans around The Garden. Science tells us that humans have been around for about 200,000 years, longer than the period spoken of in the bible. So they just intermarried with people in the surrounding environs.

I was not disagreeing with the physical aspects, rather pointing out that a human being is matter mingled with spirit. To understand a being, you need both his physical AND spiritual bloodlines. In spiritual matters, the spirit has more to do with what's going on than the physical vehicle IMO.

If all the physical plane Nephs are wiped out (as in The Flood) they can choose compatible physical lines and be born through those. A good example of this is the Indigo. They went out of incarnation several thousands of years ago, but have, just in the last decades started incarnating again. Interestingly, they are scattered round and about, choosing not to slowly incarnate into a physical noble bloodline.

I'm of the personal opinion that not all Seriphs will become Nephs. Nephs are a genetic anomoly, born of Intelligent Design, to withstand higher spiritual pressures than is normal. How this has happened is unknown to me. However, Nephs are many times called upon to do difficult spiritual work because of this partial immunity, thus their reputation for being tough bad-asses.

Souls have been people at some point, but have ascended at some point in the past. Seraphim souls, Nephilim souls and Cherubim souls used to be people in the far past (sometimes said "they were people in a previous Solar System").

What I am saying that they are not wrong. I've found, once more information has been gathered, that all of these sources of information have truth in them. Suffienct truth that when you get a sense of their connectedness, that the Bible, Jones' videos and all of these things that resonate, are describing The Truth from their particular points of view.

Joan,

Quite a while back you charged me with the duty of keeping you honest.

I gave it my best shot.
It is true that I enjoyed following the discussion, but at this point, I don't think I can add too much more here. Any attempt at me explaining my actions the other night will be met with a removal of an off-topic post...

(as if discussion content doesn't evolve over the span of a thread's lifetime... eh, I won't nitpick.)

Good luck with your pursuits... whatever they may be.

One thing that always seems to flow under the radar in these types of claims. The soul or energy or spirit or whatever the term of the week is.

The problem is, families grow over time. So if we start with a defined number of souls in the beginning, then the number of physical bodies should remain static.

So in HH family, the number of family members should never grow. So for each death there is only one birth allowed. However, we all know that earths population has grown exponentially over the last few hundered years. So our world has increased its "soul production" in the billions.

Where are these souls coming from? Does our energy grow to a certain point and split off?

Jay,

Your idea of keeping someone honest appears to include being rude and insulting. Most folks don't think the methods you employed are necessary to keeping a person honest. In fact, most would define them as abusive. Maybe someone just got sick of reading your posts related to your efforts. Of course, you will think it was me, but it was not.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by Little Star]

reply to post by PowerSlave


What if one soul has many incarnations?
Yes even simultaneously.
Its all speculative you can think outside of the box.

I want those of you that are engaging Jay to back off a bit if you can.

Little Star, I would remind you of Jesus's codes.

Matt 18: 21-22 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Jay had a "spike". That's it. He's still working it out but I think he's calming down.

Jay, if you are reading this, I'll have the other forum down in 24 hours, so no more of this anger is necessary. If you have any further rational requests, we can talk about it, and, where I agree, I will comply.


[edit on 25-2-2009 by JoanTheBlind]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Ah thanks for that. My intution was right intially despite I couldnt gather to where all this nonsense was coming from. Some of it nonsense I have to say. Overhyped would be the word.

Who exactly is joan anyhow? What does she know that I don't. I'm sure she wouldnt surprise me with anything.

I'm well aware of agendas of other's I'll just sit and watch and see how long this will go on for. Joan where do yu get your info from.


Interdimensionally?? I agree with some aspects of the history. But what about the bloodlines?? Can you tell me anything special about them. Tell me what they can do that I can't?. I have the crappy Type O + monkey blood. Yet I can do all the tihings the powerful bloodlines can do. There is nothing special about the bloodlines let me tell you.

If anything the powers of be just don't want to mix thre loloodlines for specific purposes.

Really wjat are you trying to tell us?

[edit on 25-2-2009 by universe attracts wisdom]

reply to post by JoanTheBlind


Joan,

I never asked you to take down your forum... As if I have that authority anyhow!
Don't pin this on me.

All I did was call you on the BS of using this site to plug and recruit traffic for a forum you were building.

If you chose to take yours down, that's on you.

With that, I am done here.

Let me get this straigtened out. I'm middle ground here on this topic.

To all the naysayers and yes sayers, anti bible, anti darwin, for darwin, anti alien.

I don't care what you are. But the evidence is there, to suggest that HOMO SAPIENS IS A HYBRID.

Accept the facts, and try figure out the missing links and why the hell humanity evolved so rapidly and then suddenly slow down and begin again during pre Noah times. There are far to many missling links as to how we came about.

For example.
Scientists now say we are not closly related to Neanderthal and we didnt ascend from Neanderthal whatsoever, our common link with their species oes back 400,000 years ago. Thats a hell of a long time ago. We are not primates as we have two less chromosomes than any other hominoid or primate. We have distincitive bloodlines that are in fact mutated or alien. We have a blood line that is not decended from our main monkey ancestor, the rhysus monkey. Rh blood etc. Thats another topic, but still valid to my point. We have different colour eyes hair to our hominoid counterpars. We evovled far faster than any speciss of hominoid to a point of only a few thousands years, where other species took 100,000s of years to evolve. We even wiped out a far adapted species Neanderthal, no one knows how or why and why so fast. They are just so many theories. The blood is also a very interesting one. They were adapted to the cold clmates, yet we werent' We survived and manage to wipe tham out litrally. HOW? WHY?

How did we get Maths? Where did we get the knowledge to build Pyramids? why did we build them. Why did our race suddenly advance so quickly. Where is atlantis, why do so many ancient cultures speak of it. Why is it not in our history books


Why isn't darwins theory mapped out?



[edit on 25-2-2009 by universe attracts wisdom]

[edit on 25-2-2009 by Little Star]

Joan,
I haven't forgotten this. I was trying to be more in the teaching mode as I thought his excuse post above warranted some comment. Like when this 3 year old little girl kept kicking my son because she wanted to marry him. I explained to her that her method was not likely to bring about the best results for all. I really don't feel like there is anything to forgive. For me it was more like being knocked a bit off center and now I have to make my way back to center. Okay, re-read my post, I did let anger seep in there didn't I? Okay, I got it. I told ya, I have a temper. I should have stayed away from here for a few days.


[edit on 25-2-2009 by Little Star]

reply to post by PowerSlave


Love your Avatar pic, Powerslave. I listen to Iron Maiden quite often and Powerslave is one of my favorites.

PS: One thing that always seems to flow under the radar in these types of claims. The soul or energy or spirit or whatever the term of the week is.

The problem is, families grow over time. So if we start with a defined number of souls in the beginning, then the number of physical bodies should remain static.

J: Yes, its difficult to argue your logic here. Rather there should be a maximum number of physical bodies that can incarnate, based on sufficient spirits to inhabit them.

In some literature I've read they estimated this in the tens of billions. Thus the human race has room to grow until natural laws bring the numbers down.

PS: So in HH family, the number of family members should never grow. So for each death there is only one birth allowed. However, we all know that earths population has grown exponentially over the last few hundered years. So our world has increased its "soul production" in the billions.

J: I think we just haven't reached the maximum.

PS: Where are these souls coming from? Does our energy grow to a certain point and split off?

J: I don't think so. I think its been the same people (spirits) over and over again, there's just so darned many of them.

I am impressed with your reasoning abilities PS.

C: What if one soul has many incarnations?
Yes even simultaneously.
Its all speculative you can think outside of the box.

J: Yes one of the problems being outside the box, is you have to build a larger box or your thoughts could tumble off into infinity if you let them.

UAW: Really what are you trying to tell us?

J: My purpose here is to conduct a study group of interested participants who want to look at the Hidden Hand material in a little more detail. Its mundain, but with a few opinions from myself that might spice things up a bit.

I'll be finishing up soon as I've already covered the important parts: The Creator, Love and Light, and the Jehovah situation. I intend to only cover the basics within it. The study takes the format of excerpt from the original material followed by some questions to engage human thinking in dealing with spiritual topics.

UAW: How did we get Maths? Where did we get the knowledge to build Pyramids? why did we build them. Why did our race suddenly advance so quickly. Where is atlantis, why do so many ancient cultures speak of it. Why is it not in our history books? Why isn't darwins theory mapped out?

J: These are interesting questions to be sure. I haven't really studied these issues myself, so I cannot reasonably comment on them.

Hello Joan
You know this little monkey has honestly missed you. Hey that pill you gave me seems to be working although i must admit it could just be a touch of paranoia. I was having a dream and i suddenly realised i was climbing the wrong tree as there were two in the garden and i thought now thats a problem as i cant climb two trees at once. It was a strange experience as there were lots of strange objects high up in the branches and i never saw tobit. Its funny really because i am allergic to fruit so i thought it was best not to eat any.
Anyway i dont want to bore you with my fantasies so before i attempt to answer your previous question i would ask a boon of you. I think that would be sporting as even perseus had a shield. I was hoping you would play a game with me as that one you mentioned before sounded fascinating. So this is my proposition that if you draw three cards for me and tell me which cards they are. I will then attempt to answer yourn faus pas. Speak later bye