U.S. vs. China

Also Smog in LA is bad but in Chinese industrial cities its even worse, the smog layer is low to the ground and is worse than fog. I don't know about major Chinese cities but here is an image of a Chinese city.




[edit on 23-4-2005 by WestPoint23]

what city in china is that?? and give a link to the pic

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by chinawhite
russia never formally entered the korean war. would you say america entered the russian-afgan war just because they provided aide to the afgans.and the americans went across the yalu river seperating china to korea so thats why china entered the war. read any books any it will say the same.

Ahem, if you read any history of the Korean War you would know that the PLA crossed into North Korea before the Ameriacans got to the Yalu. The Americans NEVER crossed the Yalu, what's with this warped view of history ?

PS. The Russians had 2 Air Regiments flying out of Chinese bases noerth of the Yalu. That's a major commitment. US planes were banned from fkying across the Yalu and attacking these bases. However they used to sneak across and shoot down mostly Chinese Mig-15's, they were easy meat.

never crossed yalu. look at some maps



and anything offical about russian in the korean war???
any links, books to back up your claims

I can't make out anything from that map...
And until recently even I was under the impression that the were no CCCP pilots in the korean war, but i learnt otherwise..
Do a boolean on ATS weaponry and/or aircraft projects and you'll find something..

And what rogue1 said about the Yalu and the No-fy zone and the MiG 15s.. was definitely relevant in NAM.. don't know about Korea..

can you see where china is and where the orange is the black line is the yalu river. as you can see they reached the yalu and in some places even crossed it.

as for the air war. everywhere in korea was free gain for the americans.

Originally posted by rogue1
US planes were banned from fkying across the Yalu and attacking these bases. However they used to sneak across and shoot down mostly Chinese Mig-15's, they were easy meat.

So I guess you're saying the US DID cross the Yalu?

ahh...rogue1 look what picture books can tell you better than all those books you read.. what are you going to say now.

chinawhite 2
rogue1 000



i have sources to back mine up. you have nothing

chinese poilts during the korean war averaged 4 hours and 27 minutes training ina mig15 before they had to go defend the mother land.

www.jamestown.org...

edit: forgot to put source

[edit on 23-4-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite
ahh...rogue1 look what picture books can tell you better than all those books you read.. what are you going to say now.

chinawhite 2
rogue1 000

i have sources to back mine up. you have nothing

I haven't really found anyone here being worthy of being called an idiot but you unofortunately are. LOL, you have sources some dodgy out of focus map, gawd LMAO.

On Oct. 19, the North Korean capital of Pyongyang was captured; by Nov. 24, North Korean forces were driven by the 8th Army, under Gen. Walton Walker, and the X Corp, under Gen. Edward Almond, almost to the Yalu River, which marked the border of Communist China. As MacArthur prepared for a final offensive, the Chinese Communists joined with the North Koreans to launch (Nov. 26) a successful counterattack. The UN troops were forced back, and in Jan., 1951, the Communists again advanced into the South, recapturing Seoul, the South Korean capital.
www.encyclopedia.com...

Like I said try learning how to read and quit with the picture books.

And yes, the Soviets did fly over North Korea, if they hadn't China would have lost complete control it's own airspace let alone North korea. Try a simple search on google, I'm sure you'll find hundreds of pages - but then again you probab;y want to keep your head buried in teh ground.

PS. LOL, I believe that's 2 zip to me

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by chinawhite
ahh...rogue1 look what picture books can tell you better than all those books you read.. what are you going to say now.

chinawhite 2
rogue1 000

i have sources to back mine up. you have nothing

I haven't really found anyone here being worthy of being called an idiot but you unofortunately are. LOL, you have sources some dodgy out of focus map, gawd LMAO.

On Oct. 19, the North Korean capital of Pyongyang was captured; by Nov. 24, North Korean forces were driven by the 8th Army, under Gen. Walton Walker, and the X Corp, under Gen. Edward Almond, almost to the Yalu River, which marked the border of Communist China. As MacArthur prepared for a final offensive, the Chinese Communists joined with the North Koreans to launch (Nov. 26) a successful counterattack. The UN troops were forced back, and in Jan., 1951, the Communists again advanced into the South, recapturing Seoul, the South Korean capital.
www.encyclopedia.com...

Like I said try learning how to read and quit with the picture books.

And yes, the Soviets did fly over North Korea, if they hadn't China would have lost complete control it's own airspace let alone North korea. Try a simple search on google, I'm sure you'll find hundreds of pages - but then again you probab;y want to keep your head buried in teh ground.

PS. LOL, I believe that's 2 zip to me

whats this got to do about the yalu river

"On Oct. 19, the North Korean capital of Pyongyang was captured; by Nov. 24, North Korean forces were driven by the 8th Army, under Gen. Walton Walker, and the X Corp, under Gen. Edward Almond, almost to the Yalu River, which marked the border of Communist China. As MacArthur prepared for a final offensive, the Chinese Communists joined with the North Koreans to launch (Nov. 26) a successful counterattack. The UN troops were forced back, and in Jan., 1951, the Communists again advanced into the South, recapturing Seoul, the South Korean capital."


it doesn't mention anything about the us didn't come close to yalu river. my map shows they were at yalu river or are you still trying to deny that. or maybe they didn't and your right

pathetic

as for the "dodgy" and "out of focus" map you must be blind its clear. ..oh i forgot you have no brain opps. ask anyone if its out of focus.



as for my "dodgy sites" korea50.army.mil... this is the offical site for the defense department on the korean war.




and about the russian pilots

Halliday, Jon. "A Secret War." Far Eastern Econonic Review,
v.156, n.16, April 22, 1993:32-36.
"The US and USSR fought in an air war over North Korea during
the Korean War,and both sides kept it a secret. The truth was
recently uncovered after years of research and many interviews
with the Americans and Russians involved in the encounters."

no wonder i didn't know about the russian pilots.

its 2 : 1

me the nuke and yalu river. you russian pilots ....or are you going to be pathetic and deny it again


[edit on 23-4-2005 by chinawhite]

GAwd, it's like talking to a kindergarten kid. You said that the US crossed the Yalu, which is why China got involved. US forces never crossed the Yalu, even the bombers had orders not to stray into Chinese airspace. DO SOME READING.

And you were also wrong about Kennedy wanting to nuke China in 1962. The options being discussed were either commando raids or a conventional attack with bombers. Do you even bother to read the links and the papers, obviously not.

You can't be that stupid to really believe the satements you are making, they fly in the face of all the FACTS.

OMFG you want proof that Russians were flying in NK? There are also hundreds of pages online that will tell you otherwise Chinese pilots and Russian pilots were flying in N. Korea, Russian pilots were training the Chinese how to fly the Mig-15’s.
Also don't know about you, but on a show about the Mig-15 on the History channel they had Russian pilots from the Korean war talking about their part in the Korean War. To me that the ultimate proof.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
First of all, the Iraqi military fell in 3 weeks, the US is fighting terrorist politically correct and were tying to preserve the country as much has we can. If the U.S. wanted to crush the insurgents we could get real nasty and have no problem's, but that would not go down too well with international community.

I think Saddam Hussein intended those insurgents and guerillas to be there. Remember how he said he will fight a guerilla war? Well here it is, a guerilla war in Iraq. He knows Iraq cannot hope to defeat the US. He wanted to draw US forces into the cities of Iraq and let loose the guerillas. Urban warfare reduces some advantages the US forces have, such as superior range of rifles and superior tanks.

And what do you mean "get real nasty?" The US already has spent a lot of effort trying to fight this guerilla warfare. Already $100-200 billion was poured into it, a good portion of the total troops deployed, along with >10000 casualties (dead & wounded).

The insurgents target mostly civilians and its more of a political tool that a means to defeat the U.S.
But like I said if the U.S. wanted to get real nasty the insurgent problem would be diminished.

But what do you mean get real nasty? If you mean try harder, they are already trying hard, and spending lots of money (and lives) on it.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Taishyou]

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Yes, Los Angelos, New York City, etc....all have had pollution problems; heck, LA even has smog days. But the pollution in Chinese cities is some of the highest in the world, surpassing even the large U.S. cities.

lol lol lol

this is a link to pictures of chinese cities

www.china-defense.com...

Oh brother Chinawhite, you can find nice, clear pics of New York City, Los Angelos, and any other pollution-ridden American city too, complete with nice blue skies and the likes. Tourism pictures are the last things you look at as references.

Originally posted by rogue1
GAwd, it's like talking to a kindergarten kid. You said that the US crossed the Yalu, which is why China got involved. US forces never crossed the Yalu, even the bombers had orders not to stray into Chinese airspace. DO SOME READING.

And you were also wrong about Kennedy wanting to nuke China in 1962. The options being discussed were either commando raids or a conventional attack with bombers. Do you even bother to read the links and the papers, obviously not.

You can't be that stupid to really believe the satements you are making, they fly in the face of all the FACTS.

i didn't say china enter the war because the americans crossed the yalu. china warned america not to cross the 38th parallel when they did china already started to move 500,000 near yalu river.

READ THE LINK I GAVE YOU BEFORE.

can you find a article saying america never crossed yalu????
seeing is believing?? my map speaks for itself..

why was i wrong about kennedy nuking china??? he died before the plans could be Inditiated.

they had orders not to go to chinese air space but they still did even you admitted it.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
OMFG you want proof that Russians were flying in NK? There are also hundreds of pages online that will tell you otherwise Chinese pilots and Russian pilots were flying in N. Korea, Russian pilots were training the Chinese how to fly the Mig-15’s.
Also don't know about you, but on a show about the Mig-15 on the History channel they had Russian pilots from the Korean war talking about their part in the Korean War. To me that the ultimate proof.

i already stated in my post before that the russian did have pilots in korea

But what do you mean get real nasty? If you mean try harder, they are already trying hard, and spending lots of money (and lives) on it.

It has nothing to do with money or tying harder, It has to do with tactics, laws of engagement, treatment once under detainment, level of accepted collateral damage, respect of certain sites and the enactment of certain laws on the population.

Originally posted by chinawhite

i didn't say china enter the war because the americans crossed the yalu. china warned america not to cross the 38th parallel when they did china already started to move 500,000 near yalu river.

READ THE LINK I GAVE YOU BEFORE.

can you find a article saying america never crossed yalu????
seeing is believing?? my map speaks for itself..

Every article and book I've read never mentions the UN crossing the Yalu into Chinese territory. Why don't you find a better version of the map so that you can actually see the river lol.

why was i wrong about kennedy nuking china??? he died before the plans could be Inditiated.

LOL, and just where did you hear this ? You didn't just make it up did you ? What a load of bull.

they had orders not to go to chinese air space but they still did even you admitted it.

Well that was of course after China entered the war. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by chinawhite]