A voice from the past.

reply to post by seawolf197


Yes. I'm struck by how her arguments are as relevant today as they were more than 50 years ago.

Here are just some of her points relevant to the current financial crisis:

...You are moving toward disaster, until and unless, all the welfare state conceptions have been reversed and rejected...It is precisely these trends which are bringing the world to disaster, because we are now moving towards complete collectivism, or socialism- a system under which everybody is enslaved to everybody...

...I am for the separation of State and Economics...

...it sprang up from the same source as the abuses, if by abuses you mean the legislation which originally had been established to help industries, which was already a breach of free enterprise...

...capitalists with government help are the worst of all economic phenomena...

...You know that both parties today are for socialism in effect...for control...

...all depressions are caused by government interference and the cure is always offered- so far- to take more of the poison that caused the disaster...

Fascinating, isn't it?

[edit on 8-2-2009 by loam]

Thanks for the posts S&F!!

You are correct what she is describing is central to our current predicament!

You will find most right wing nuts describe Ayn Rand as being seminal in their awakening. Like Mr. Bubbles- Alan Greenspan Yuck.

Do you trust anyone who calls their own philosophy "created out of my own mind"...objectivist??? Hi my name is Leo and I am objective what are you?

Many college students go from Ayn Rand to believing in some sort of enlightened Anarchism. Then there are those few who end up using their objectivist philosophy to justify naked greed and selfishness. Then there is the majority which realize neither of these extremes will work in a functioning society...except when the aliens land!

A refugee from Soviet Russia makes a living criticizing "collectivism" in America during the cold war. Sounds like a good gig!

I will say that Ayn Rand is a smart woman and both are excellent books.

EXCELLENT FIND LOAM!!

Everyone pay attention -

She says: "Depressions are caused by Government interference, and their solution is more of the poison that caused it."

Exactly! And look what the Bush and Obama administrations just did to us.

If she wasn't such a 'Secular Humanist' her insights would have held more sway even back in 1959. She was actualy the founder of this movement in America and Europe. Her books, especialy 'The Fountainhead' are a great example of how one man (or woman) can take possession of their own lives and what they create and buck the system and ignore others in their wake. Her discertation on the 'total self' has always been kind of selfish and very uncaring of her fellow human and I think that's where she lost so much of her power to change the minds of her readers. She was brilliant by any standard but she seemed to be much too cold and calculating for me!
Zindo

I like the idea of self determination where no one, including the gov. stands in one's way....which means of course, that I must not harm anyone in the process of living out my free existence. I can think of a dozen business ventures I could start tomorrow if it wasn't for high taxes, government regulations, red tape, bureaucracy, or some governement official getting his nose out of joint and ruining my life.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
If she wasn't such a 'Secular Humanist' her insights would have held more sway even back in 1959. She was actualy the founder of this movement in America and Europe. Her books, especialy 'The Fountainhead' are a great example of how one man (or woman) can take possession of their own lives and what they create and buck the system and ignore others in their wake. Her discertation on the 'total self' has always been kind of selfish and very uncaring of her fellow human and I think that's where she lost so much of her power to change the minds of her readers. She was brilliant by any standard but she seemed to be much too cold and calculating for me!
Zindo

She talked about the value of a man being found in his "virtue". Compassion and empathy are virtues, so I wonder how that fits into her ideology. I realize, as a human being, that if I don't take care of my mind, body, and soul that I am not going to be any good to my fellow man. So perhaps she was on the right track in that regard. I have helped people and self sacrificed(got nothing in return for it) and ended up facing ridicule and hatred from the very people I helped. I'm not saying I wouldn't help people again at my own expense, but I do question my own actions because of what happened to me.

PS: Nice avatar by the way!

[edit on 8/2/09 by John Matrix]

While that woman may have a few good ideas on politics, she has absolutely no concept of love or what it is, she seems to be a bitter person too, just from a reading of her in that interview.

So I suppose babies do not deserve to be fed because they cannot feed themselves.
Children should not be loved because they made a mistake.
Senior citizens should not be cared for neither the mentally retarded.
That's according to her faulty philosophy.

She seems would fit right in with the satanists seeing how that fits right in with her views, caring only for yourself and such.

Actually, I take that back about the satanists, they're not that evil, she sounds like one of the people who carry out "cremation of care" at the Bohemian Grove, of course women aren't allowed there, probably because they are not as valuble as men, according to her philosophy.

-Lahara

reply to post by John Matrix


The point is that in her writings, she seemed to disavow her beliefs. She was vilified by some (as you saw in the interview) and praised by the elite. Kind of a discordant theme with her beliefs! She was at opposite ends of the spectrum in what she said and what she wrote.

Zindo

She is a wingnut! It is the same old argument of what is good for the individual and the good of society. There is always a balance in everything and this woman is way out on the right. She loves her philosophy more than people. i wouldn't want to be married to such a person.

great videos,,,

boy,,,she hit the nail on the head say 40 years later

wallace just couldn't except what she was sating and each time he tried to trick or disprove her,,she fired back and won


wow,,, to see wallace smoking a cig on air,,,that was maybe my favorite part


this lady is weird though,,, her eye movements and such,,, seems like theirs no love behind those eyes,,,,like a machine almost

still she's amazingly smart,,,on point
what weould wallace think now ehh?????

Maybe she is right and what this world needs is a little less compassion... after all wasn't it too much compassion (or love for fellow humans) that got us into trouble in the first place. Obviously there was some truth in there for example corporate/government partnerships are the road to fascist dictatorship, but like many others involved in what she was (occult, Luciferianism) double speak and mixed messages are well planned. Most of us aren't stupid enough to let Shell or another go unregulated just off our shoreline. How about letting our mentally/ physically disabled people just rot in the street. Where's the virtue in that? I'm sure someone callous out there is thinking natural selection... the betterment of our species. I'm sure we can all think of many examples of people who have shown to be great contributors to our race who wouldn't have had a chance. I would bet my eye teeth that when she wrote atlas shrugged she was the type of person who disagreed with government spending for wheelchair ramps. Thanks for posting those clips!, but according to her you shouldn't have given a crap to do so.

Originally posted by TheRealDonPedros
reply to post by David9176

 

I find her to be cold and detached. Her whole philosophy extends around the individual, and the individuals rights to "happiness" as a moral purpose.

Don't fall for it, remember that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[edit on 8-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

[edit on 8-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

That is what I thought. the philosophy I find interesting, but very very cold and possibly selfish. If some of what she said could be applied to our lives I think it could help, but based on some of the other post, Allan Greenspan ?....... could it be the "intelectuals" have already be following her???

Heck, I never even heard of her before. I did notice that Mike Wallace actually let her talk. Imagine an interview like that today? Like the Peter Schiff interviews.....

By the way, "the road to hell" comment, are you a Bruce Dickinson fan or is that a major quote from one of the MANY books I have not read?

I'm sure most fans of Rand know...but the creepy video game Bioshock is based on Rand's ideas.

radicalsforhappiness.blogspot.com...

Her words are motivating. But humans are usually not run by compassion and logic, they are run by the ego...so I fear unchecked individualism going too far.


Mike Wallace smoking away while interviewing...didn't he and 60 Minutes play a big part in taking down big tobacco? Ironic.

Funny I would see this today. My 16 year old brother sent me several similar videos a few days ago, with Mike Wallace interviewing Aldous Huxley.

This man also had a pretty good idea of how things were going to go in this country.

Part 1



Part 2



Part 3

reply to post by loam


yeah, teach them youngsters

Even today she'd be way ahead of her time and shocking to most.


[edit on 8-2-2009 by Skyfloating]

Seems some of you are having a hard time with the "Compassion" part of all this.
Let me give you an example that happened to me yesterday when I was traveling. This would be based on her view.

I pulled off the Highway to get some gas and coffee west of OKC.
I was gasing up and notice a man going from one car to another speaking with them and on to the next. Didn't think much of it. Then he was speaking with the person next to me. I caught just the part when he said "I don't want money, just some gas".
Well I've been around LA enough to know that they thought he was just a beggar. He was not even going to approach me, and was walking back up to the building.
I "choose" to ask him what he needed. I asked him a few questions and found out a few things.
He was working a construction crew out west and was sending all his money home to his wife for the family.
The contractor replaced him and several others with some illegal's from our buddy's to the south.

He had a Chevy Tahoe with OK plates and offered his Driv. Lic to show he was not a complete bum.
He just wanted enough gas to get home, about 85 miles from where we were.
I chose to give him 20 gallons of gas so he would have some when he arived home. He had to push his truck to the pump because it was out.
After we had left, I was getting on the on ramp and a guy was on the side of the road, clean cut, dress shirt, etc, with a small bag.
"I" decided not to stop. I had just helped someone else and I could not do this all day as I had to make a certain point in travel.
It all works fine, I helped the one with the gas when no one else would not.
Three cars behind me, someone picked up the other fellow and so his need was met.
If I were to do it the way we run our country, someone from the Govt. would have put a gun to everyone's head in the gas station and collected one dollar each, wait make that ten dollars each.
Then the Govt. person would have filled up the one mans tank, and bought a taxi cab for the one on the side of the road.

Now do you get the difference. What they are doing to us now is exactly like this. Someone will take care of the one's that need it.


sorry for all the typo's






[edit on 8-2-2009 by j2000]

reply to post by loam


Most of the quotes you pulled were the same ones I wrote down as she spoke. "Separation of State and economics" - that's an eye-opener. Imagine the corporate world cut off from welfare! The idea of how they would scream and freak out brings a smile to my face.

Originally posted by LiquidSun
Funny I would see this today. My 16 year old brother sent me several similar videos a few days ago, with Mike Wallace interviewing Aldous Huxley.

This man also had a pretty good idea of how things were going to go in this country.

Thank you so much for juxtaposing Mr. Huxley with Ayn Rand. I would say Aldous Huxley has prophesied much more correctly the future of our democracy than Ayn Rand could even have imagined.

Advertising, drugs, propaganda(media) being used by the oligarchy to manipulate the masses into a complete and utter capitulation of individual rights and freedom based on the powerful force in human nature of greed and a craven obsessive desire for control. Hitler modeled his propaganda campaign from American advertising. This is well documented.

The first topic Mr. Huxley mentions is overpopulation. It is the elephant in the living room that humanity cannot seem to confront. Resource wars etc. Aldous Huxley was a genius and an intellectual soothsayer of the highest order.

I would venture to say his vision has been realized in the US today and that saddens me deeply.

Again thank you so much for presenting a decent man who did his best to protect freedom and democracy from tyranny!

Also I would like to comment on the early days of television. I am amazed that thinkers of this magnitude were given an open forum to discuss their views. However it is easy to see how Mike Wallace was directing this conversation towards the Soviet Union's sins and not recognizing our own faults.

WOw this indeed is powerful stuff. I had NO clue who this lady was till this thread. This is why I like ATS I can learn new stuff every day. Time to do my research on her now.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


Although "Brave New World" was one of my favourite and probably the most influential books I have ever read, Aldous Huxley suffered from the same elitist attitude that Rand was afflicted with. Its a by-product of them being smarter than most around them but considering the amount of people they influenced (good or bad) its part and parcel with what made there works great.

As a recreational entheogen user I disagree with Huxley's view that entheogens were only for the educated "elite", and should be kept from the masses. Most people don't know this but his wife administered '___' to him on his deathbed (twice, the second time he scrawled out a barely legible request due to his weak state robbing him of his voice), this was a man obsessed with the potential of entheogens, yet he wanted it only for himself.

Somewhat of a thread derailment but the alternate views on Rand and Huxley should be part of the package in terms of "where have their ideas gotten us".

Peace



[edit on 8-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]