Honeybees, HIV, and You.

reply to post by peskyhumans


You're awesome. That's a really good point. Bees are weird. A queen has 32 chromosomes but a male results from an unfertilized egg and has only 16 chromosomes (a drone). Apparently this has no problem itself with bees. In the case of the different species, I'm pretty sure that the number of chromosomes is the same for all species of bee. I tried to look it up on the net, but I couldn't find the chromosome numbers for those two different species. I think that the Africanized/killer bees are more different in terms of behavior, and not form, than the European ones because they are a subspecies. They are both honey bees, which were relatively recently one species. It takes a long time and many more mutations for the chromosome number itself to change. So no, the offspring would not be sterile, I don't think. I also don't think that they would breed. Bees are very territorial and typically remain isolated to their colonies. It would be a big deal for one to move to a different hive, and a bigger deal for it to move to one of a different type of bee.

But I did read in one or two of the articles that another "stress factor" thought to contribute to the immune problems is inbreeding among colonies and populations. Although not directly responsible, it could play a part in the puzzle.

There is only one species that we use for commercial crops and move around to pollenate different things. They interact the most and are the species that is exhibiting CCD that I know of. I'm not sure if other bees are, but I think it is just this type of honeybee. Africanized bees are not typically used for commercial purposes so they would not have interacted with the honeybees. Whereas many beekeepers will bring their colonies all around the world to famous places like the lavender fields in France. I think this is where something contagious would play a factor, and also where colonies may switch up a bit. I'm really not sure, though.

The type of bee that we use is the European honey bee, Apis mellifera. Wikipedia sites a number of bees like Africanized bees as subspecies, which probably wouldn't cross subspecies. I think only mellifera gets CCD and I believe that there aren't populations of mixed bees. I could be wrong, but it's not common.

www.glenn-apiaries.com...
www.indianchild.com...
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 2/7/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Yeah I saw it on a documentary on the discovery channel I think. They showed a beekeeper killing a european queen, tossing it away, and then placing a african queen stuck inside a box sealed with wax in the hive. By the time the european drones ate their way through the wax, they would be under control of the new queen's pheromones, which is how they assert dominance, I guess.

I was just wondering. Thanks for the reply

Its not mysterious. Its not complicated. Its not natural.

What happens to human beings when exposed to high amounts of toxins or experience toxicity? They get confused. Even in the range of a honey bee, they're bound to run into pesticides, chemicals like antifreeze, and somewhat synthetic sweetners that could easily destroy the bee's nervous system.

I've heard on numerous occasions that "ccd" (bull#) doesn't occur too much in strict organic farms, where natural life for bee's is allowed to occur. Eric koston's organic farm in California.

The answer is fairly obvious. All this "its not pesticides" isn't it.

reply to post by peskyhumans


You're totally right, it is pheromones. That I know for sure. They want to reproduce and they need a queen to do that.

My parents planted corn in their garden last year. The seeds were from one of the seed catalogs. Anyway we noticed right away that not many bees came to pollinate the heads. Those that did quickly died. We even found a lot of other dead bugs underneath the stalks as if they were climbing up and fell dead.

Needless to say nobody ate corn from that row. Out of curiosity my dad cooked one ear and just tasted of it without eating and said it tasted like a spoiled lime. He dried the ears out and tried to feed to the chickens and they wouldn't touch it. He pulled up the stalks and burned them.

There is some criticism in the background regarding HIV drugs and reliability of HIV tests and from their own labels "cause AIDS like symptoms" due to the sheer strength of the drugs.

Read the story of Audrey Serrano whom was diagnosed falsely as being HIV positive and put on HIV drugs and developed severe AIDs symptoms and nearly died. She won a 2.5 million settlement but, was hardly given publicity.

If you are slowly poisoned you will have immune suppressive effects. Just because the bees are having immune suppression doesn't mean that they aren't being poisoned. Not saying that is the cause but, it is possible.



[edit on 7/2/2009 by toochaos4u]

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by mental modulator

 

Thank you! Yeah, honey has antibacterial properties. Interesting, right? I was just fascinated by this whole phenomena and I think it has rather important implications.

Did not know about the anti bacterial properties of honey.

What I was referring to is akin to natural immunization to some degree.

Theory goes -

BEES are exposed to a very large variety of particulates.

Pollen, dust, microbes and the like are inadvertently collected with the pollen by the bees.

Next - All of these components are in essence transfered to the honey during production.

The concentration levels of these various substances are hardly detectable....

The concept goes off to say,

"these substances are then ingested ( being in the honey )
which introduces said particles into the body."

"Eventually the particles are encountered by the body's immune system."

"The immune system in turn " learns " how to deal with the particles."

"The weak concentration in the honey provides a "LESSON" to the immune system, but does not trigger a full reaction/illness."

"So next time the body encounters larger quantities of the particles, it already "understands" how to react in the most efficient manner, thanks to the honey."


Great for outdoors allergies.

Just buy local honey and your body will likely get exposed to local allergens.

Kind of like a fLU shot... many swear by it!

Cheers

[edit on 7-2-2009 by mental modulator]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


You don't think scientists could modify bugs for vaccine or other purposes(some devious)

Here ya go

Bio Bugs

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by peskyhumans

 

There is only one species that we use for commercial crops and move around to pollenate different things. They interact the most and are the species that is exhibiting CCD that I know of.

Maybe they got tired of being slaves for the corporate masters and headed for the hills?

S&F, btw.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13

You also say "I see it first hand, the bees are somehow, someway are not returning to the hives and I don't mean they swarm and leave the hives. These bees are actually losing there way somehow" which contradicts what you said about bees dying and being ill in the hives, staying there 24/7. That was in this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

And also you seem to have believed pesticides to be the problem, now GM crops. It's okay, there are a lot of factors that cause honeybee immune systems to be stressed in the first place and you know that, too. The cause is still unknown. I would be really angry and confused if I were a beekeeper through this.

[edit on 2/6/2009 by ravenshadow13]

A little about bees, and farming first hand.

Please don't buy into the rubbish the media spews.

Seasoned and experienced beekeepers are seeing the results first hand.

First off GM crops and pesticides are one in the same or should I say pesticides are genetically altered into the seeds, to produce their own pesticides while growing. Do some research on Google and you will understand this.

ATS is to deny Ignorance.

Basic example GMO altered seeds/pesticides.

www.csa.com...

The new genetically-modified plant will gain drought tolerance as well. Not only can genes be transferred from one plant to another, but genes from non-plant organisms also can be used. The best known example of this is the use of B.t. genes in corn and other crops. B.t., or Bacillus thuringiensis, is a naturally occurring bacterium that produces crystal proteins that are lethal to insect larvae. B.t. crystal protein genes have been transferred into corn, enabling the corn to produce its own pesticides against insects such as the European corn borer.

2nd, What I did say is " When bees become ill they die in and around the hive, period. Why? because that is what bees live for, to service their hive 24/7 365 days a year."

So with this bees are not being found in and around the hives but not returning. It appears bees are fine one day showing no signs of sickness, then out of the blue vanishing without a trace. Bees live to serve their hives, by collecting, pollen, nectar, fanning, cleaning, etc..., they are 100% loyal unless swarming occurs, then you can most likely find them clustered, on a branch, in a tree nearby.

So is it pesticides/GMO's maybe, is it microwaves maybe, is it a virus maybe, but that facts remain that when bees get sick from something they typical are found in and around the hives after they die. This is why I don't buy into virus's or diseases, bees are loyal like no other to their hives.

Get you facts straight and your level of understanding up to par before you post misconstrued facts and twisted quotes, which I do not appreciate at all.



[edit on 7-2-2009 by Realtruth]

Anyone notice how HIV is transferring in different species? Cats (FIV), Chimps, humans, and now bees.

My vote is HIV is (or was) a manufactured virus. either it still is, and this is another part of it's programming' or it's mutated beyond the control of whoever unleashed it.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


the last part of your post only makes sense if you whole heartedly believe those in power have YOUR interests at heart... which the clearly do not.

I've never seen one

I live in Ann Arbor and they are constantly seeding clouds here. If it was happening in your area you would definately notice it going on.

There's tons of 'anecdotal evidence' available on the internet. YouTube has tons of vids on it. Go watch one and then you will know what we are seeing here all the time.

Anyway, another theory about CCD that 'strikes my fancy' is that elevated levels of UV radiation from the sun which appears to be warming up is killing them, or somehow making the bees 'blind' so they can not find their way back to their hives ...

As important as the bees are, they have to know what's causing CCD by now. The very fact that they're keeping it a secret ( IMHO ) is a very troubling one ...

A couple days ago they had a bee keeper on Fox News and they were talking about should bee keepers get any of this money the government is trying to pass and the bee keeper was saying things like you guys have talked about.

Now,,,,,,,,,,, I had a very bad bee problem last Spring so I called the exterminator. He came to my home and told me which he could take care of and the ones he could not. He told me that I would have to get a bee keeper to get the thousands in the tree and around the yard because it was illigal to kill the honey bees.

We contacted like three bee keepers and guess what we still have the bees they didn't want them. One said the hole in the tree was to high and to small he couldn't get to them, another said the same thing basically and that it would have cost me a lot of money to have a bee keeper to take them and I told him if they were so desperate for honey bees they would be taking them for free or maybe if the tone didn't change I would charge them top dollar to have them. The next one came out looked said just leave them there and keep the kids away from the area besides PA isn't having that much of a problem the bees seem to be coming back okay.

Now you tell me..............isn't something off kilter here?

When the season is right my flowers and plants are doing nicely by the way.




[edit on 7-2-2009 by observe50]

I think that industrial farming could be the problem. I'm not a farmer or a beekeeper but it seems to me that farming has become such a big business that more and more huge plots of land are being "developed" for such purposes. That leads to the decimation of natural colonies within that area. The farmers then have to ship in the bees from other areas of the country. Those bees can't be as adapted to the local environment/bugs/viruses, etc. as natural colonies would be. Additionally, they are put into enormous fields to pollinate the same crop for 3 weeks. Do bees need diversity in their diets? Are the beekeepers unintentionally decreasing the viability of their bees through the transport of them to different areas to do their work?

These are the questions I had just from watching the 1st part of the PBS video in the OP. I don't pretend to know anything about this subject although I am very interested in it because it truly does sound like an emergency. It just seems to me that in order to maintain the ability to farm, they should use the natural bee population and not let it grow too big as to decimate one of the things (bees) that it requires. It kind of reminds me of the dust bowl of the 1920s/30s. From everything I've heard, farming's a balancing act and maybe they haven't balanced everything right.

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
I think that industrial farming could be the problem. I'm not a farmer or a beekeeper but it seems to me that farming has become such a big business that more and more huge plots of land are being "developed" for such purposes. That leads to the decimation of natural colonies within that area. The farmers then have to ship in the bees from other areas of the country. Those bees can't be as adapted to the local environment/bugs/viruses, etc. as natural colonies would be. Additionally, they are put into enormous fields to pollinate the same crop for 3 weeks. Do bees need diversity in their diets? Are the beekeepers unintentionally decreasing the viability of their bees through the transport of them to different areas to do their work?

First question, European Honey bees are not looking for any type of bloom/nectar they can find, in fact when a hive is first established beekeepers will put 10 to 20 pounds of granulated sugar inside the hive to give them a good start. They do not need a diversity of blooms for their diet, but when offered wild flowers or anything growing wild over human planted crops, they choose wild flowers. Farmers have to put the hive in orchards or very close to the crops, so the bees will work their crops instead of natural growth. Bees try to adapt to most environments they are introduce to, but what happens is the indigenous bees get pushed out of existence.


Decrease viability, my belief on this is yes. Most Bees today are of the European honeybee descent, they are not a very hardy species anymore. It's a combination of the bee breeders, environment, and ignorance, most indigenous bees are all but extinct.

Genetically modified African bee are amazing little buggers that were introduce around the mid to late 50's, but they are very aggressive, produce less honey, and wax. I have a friend in the business that swears by them because they are almost disease resistant and predators dare but mess with the hives. Example: I saw these little monsters behavior first hand. A typical European bee will follow you about a 100 yards from the hive if angry, but their African counterpart will follow you up to a mile before giving up.


Very good questions.

reply to post by Wildbob77


Bayer is certainly capable of killing bees. They've killed thousands of people over the years since the days of I G Farbin. Pulled a drug off the american market a few years back because it was tainted with hiv and they promptly shipped it to other countries.
We leveled every part of Germany during the war and for some reason all I G Farbin buildings were untouched. I G Farbinlater became Bayer. Codex Alimentarius anyone????? google video that someday!!
BOYCOTT Bayer products!!

Excellent Thread Raven,

FYI and all others if they look at my Signature on this post below you will see the "Mummy where have all..."

Click that link it is a Collection of all topics on this subject till about 2 months ago,

I am sure you will find some very interesting stuff in there, especially the link with Monsanto board members who were also the top of the EPA, and it continues with Obama's administration to.

Many many good bits of info on this there.

Will update it to include this thread asap.

Kind Regards,

Elf

i've been following this thread since it was opened, and i read most of the provided information, and watched the video. It is indeed interesting, and if it is some form of autoimmune disease, then the implications of what that means in regard to further study, and hopefully better treatment of HIV, is huge.

But i went out looking, and found a few testimonies of bee-keepers that match what RealTruth said. There is a bee-keeper in my neighborhood, not quite a large operation or anything, but his bees vanished a month ago. Those are the words he used. Vanished.

Also, i called a few "honey harvesters" in the area and got the basic rundown. Apparently, the farmers on MSM tell the truth, but the MSM has been skewing the output, as it were. Indeed, they are vanishing. And they don't fly away from the hive for the greater good. This simply does not happen. Everyone is just assuming these bees are dead.

After further research, i have come to my own conclusions regarding this mass disappearance of bees. Yes it involves my own beliefs, but it does make sense if these beliefs as i see them are true. Bear with me here.

A honeybee can detect and "spot" different frequencies. These frequencies are one of the ways in which they communicate. Apparently, the bees dance. The dancing generates low intensity 250 hz -300 hz sound. The bees are evolved to being able to detect different frequencies in the air, and attune to these frequencies. They are naturally sensitive to the changing vibrations of the Earth.

Some of the first documented occurences of CCD happened around 1986, which is around the time Earth started ramping up its shift into 4th/5th density.

In a nutshell, i believe the bees are attuning to the higher 4th/5th density vibrations of the earth. They aren't dying. We just can't see them.

sources Dynamic Range Compression in Honeybee

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 7-2-2009 by M157yD4wn]

Bravo!

I never wanted to go into any of what most call pseudo-science, but I believe exactly what you are referring to.

Many people on ATS only have the ability or capabilities of only believing what they see, hear, touch, taste, unfortunately all of these sense can be deceived.

Everything is energy and vibrates at a particular freq.

Here is something to ponder as the freq increase, earths magnetism will plunge to the Zero point. People's memories long and short term are starting to be affected by this, kind of like a hard drive being erased.

Originally posted by M157yD4wn

After further research, i have come to my own conclusions regarding this mass disappearance of bees. Yes it involves my own beliefs, but it does make sense if these beliefs as i see them are true. Bear with me here.

A honeybee can detect and "spot" different frequencies. These frequencies are one of the ways in which they communicate. Apparently, the bees dance. The dancing generates low intensity 250 hz -300 hz sound. The bees are evolved to being able to detect different frequencies in the air, and attune to these frequencies. They are naturally sensitive to the changing vibrations of the Earth.

Some of the first documented occurences of CCD happened around 1986, which is around the time Earth started ramping up its shift into 4th/5th density.

In a nutshell, i believe the bees are attuning to the higher 4th/5th density vibrations of the earth. They aren't dying. We just can't see them.

sources Dynamic Range Compression in Honeybee

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 7-2-2009 by M157yD4wn]

This takes in to account Ocean dead spots Skin cancer and disappearing honey bees.
You guys should check out the UV index in Australia
www.bom.gov.au...

honeybees are blind to red light, but sensitive to UV. Under UV flowers look different to how they do under normal lighting. They take on the appearance of a target with an array of lines pointing towards a dark spot in the center. It is thought that this is the cue which bees use to recognise flowers.

www.setiai.com...

UV-B radiation may directly impair whale vision, lower reproductive success and immune response, and increase the likelihood of disease. Indirectly, UV-B exposure may reduce the survival and reproductive capacity of whale prey of zooplankton and fish species.

www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov...

Dead zones where fish and most marine life can no longer survive are spreading across the continental shelves of the world's oceans at an alarming rate as oxygen vanishes from coastal waters,

www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov...

In the Southern Ocean and elsewhere, it has been shown that most microbial life is sensitive to in situ UV exposure, including viruses, bacteria,