Could the hidden knowledge of history really be just this simple?

How did math come before man? If you mean the way we use equations to quantify our physical universe then that's true. But without man to observe and use these calculations then of what use were they before we got here?

Man studies to understand. I suppose you can apply that to mystical things as well.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by griffinrl]

Originally posted by griffinrl
How did math come before man? If you mean the way we use equations to quantify our physical universe then that's true. But without man to observe and use these calculations then of what use were they before we got here?

right going to edit this!!!

think of math as a river that flows,,, we fell into the river

Math was here befor mankind.. its always been here, its infact the very reason why you ARE here.

Math is an OBJECT,, i cant state that enough

[edit on 6-2-2009 by theresult]

reply to post by theresult


Humans didn't know they were human until self awareness.

Processes such as biology and geology would exist whether we understand them or not. We just invented a way to quantify what we observe to test, prove and predict things about our physical universe.

Whether we are here or not and whether we understand them or not has no bearing on how these processes function.


that means Math has ALWAYS been here.. we are just very lucky to "SEE IT". I don't know if it was luck but I agree with what you are saying here.

We didn't discover these processes at all. We try to explain how they work with the knowledge and the tools that we have at this time.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by griffinrl]

Originally posted by rockhndr
Would you please enlighten me on YOUR thoughts on the pyramid and all seeing eye? I know what I've read and try to stay away from conspiracy things your not referring to illuminati or something like that are you? Really just curious as to others philosophies not just conspiratorial type aspects. OH!! sorry to hear about your dad...-grin...

Hi, I'd like to share a thought on Pyramids and structures, wont be THAT enlightening I'm sure and maybe it doesnt fit with your geometrical thoughts, more of a conspiracy theorists ideas maybe...

A quick note first: In this last year I have been delving more into 'Esoteric' things and it has spiralled out of control a little - along with this I have discovered I have a deep seated little known phobia; Bataphobia, the fear of tall buildings. And it has grown to the extent that I must plan journeys with avoidence of certain Buildings or structures. Does this tie in with Freemasonry somehow, somewhere, Architecture?

I began to wonder if buildings and certain designs of structures have energy - both good and bad and did some silly googling on phrases like 'Evil building' and so on, came up empty handed. lol

Now the all-seeing eye on top of the pyramid as you probably know signifies to some the coming of the one eyed antichrist - some call him Dajjal and think his coming is imminent. They believe the pyramid is unfinished (the gap between the main body and the eye) because he hasnt arrived yet. I'm sure there is also latin on the dollar bill with the expression 'He is pleased with us/pleased with our plan'. I'm not saying I believe this.

You could do searches all day long on Pyramids and they will all probably lead to the fact that the Pyramid is one of the most Potent Structures of Energy known to man, amongst others of course. I have to run unfortunately but can I leave with a couple of questions for you and other members??

Have you seen the Kabba in Mecca - the Cubic structure that is supposed to be built on the strongest energy point in the world - potentially a stargate?

The Louvre in France - The Pyramid built with 666 panes of glass - another massive energy point in this world?

The Two Towers - yet another 'Stargate'. Anybody know what they are going to build there next??

Of course the Pyramids of Gizza - are they structured to replica Orion's Belt or is it another energy point?

The Seven wonders of the world, ALL of them built on massive Energy points purposefully??

Forgive me for I am no scholar but I know that most if not all of the worlds ancient structures are built to specific measurements which can only mean that yes - maybe the original point is correct - maybe it is all that simple! Geometry and numerology are VERY powerful to the Freemasons and many secret societies, I'm only guessing that this is true at this point but I really don't see it being anty different than this simple fact. Sorry to cut short the ramble but I really do have to go - very late lol

Originally posted by griffinrl
reply to post by theresult

 

Humans didn't know they were human until self awareness.

Processes such as biology and geology would exist whether we understand them or not. We just invented a way to quantify what we observe to test, prove and predict things about our physical universe.

Whether we are here or not and whether we understand them or not has no bearing on how these processes function.


that means Math has ALWAYS been here.. we are just very lucky to "SEE IT". I don't know if it was luck but I agree with what you are saying here.

We didn't discover these processes at all. We try to explain how they work with the knowledge and the tools that we have at this time.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by griffinrl]

I want to quote so i dont sound like im twisting words please mods if its to long im sorry !

you said : Processes such as biology and geology would exist whether we understand them or not.

is that not my point?? they came BEFOR MAN you are a mathamatical equation!!!

do you not understand what im trying to say here? you are in fact 1+1=2

in a very very very big calculation!!

once you can step outside the "use math" and look at what MATH is then you understand why people use symbols and other "means" to worship life and death.

Math = life itself, its a selfreplication of me and you.. and "it"

its hard getting your head around math untill you understand what it "is".,

trust me after 20 years of "math" i think im better placed to understand what it is more than some "and no im not being a big head".

Again I see the point you're trying to make. But you can't boil it all down to a simple equation. The "math" angle isn't relevant if there isn't someone or something around to apply the data to the equations.

The fact that you can quantify these things now is just a process (and yes it is a "method") of trying to understand our environment.

Do dividing microbes work out a calculation before they split? How about when DNA/RNA replicates? We see it as "math" because it's how we quantify that process.

bah! not enough points lol

basic concept!

universe / math / humans / see math / use math / understand math /

or!

Life / selfreplicats / alows me and you / mirror affect / we see use / we see math / infinity

crazy?

nope very very logical.....

Math is NOT a something ITS REAL like the pc you are typing ON

[edit on 6-2-2009 by theresult]

I think I see what you are getting at. And yes I agree these processes were working long before we attached a name or a discipline to them. But the only power in number and symbols is knowledge...I don't really believe that even if we eventually discover a Grand Unification equation it's going to mean anything that metaphysical. It would just be knowledge.

reply to post by griffinrl


ok we argree!! lol

what i was trying to show, and im greatfull for our lil debate,, is that shapes and symbols used by "whoever" is for a reason..

math is our ONLY way to understand life.. why? becouse MATH is life.. in a dumb ass way.. i mean its not like you can smell it or breath it..its IT!!

its one of the same.. it comes hand in hand with being alive.. kinda thing

its just as real as the shadow the sun leaves on the floor on a sunny day

some like to call it the matrix or some other oddball shanagins.. but iin relaity.,, its simple answer its

ITS LIFE im alive and so is the universe and math is the only connection of our "understanding" we have WITH IT.. becouse its a by product of the creation of our being

cant have one without the other

reply to post by theresult


No worries my friend It's all in the good nature of debate and discussion. I work in IT and actually I work from home...hence my almost constant presence here on the boards. I deal with math and logic on a daily basis and I enjoy the verbal jousting that goes with this type of forum.

reply to post by griffinrl


Its good to debate

Im just putting my view across really I mean the way i view math and symboligy is "i suspect" the "other" people do in masonry..

Very powerfull tool if one undertands it. And im not saying its magic but you can predict the future and the past based on simple math,,

its not like fortune telling and there is a margine of error #

But! just as day follows night You are mathmatical its very off the wall "we are not a computer programm or something btw" just too add

im talking more about spirit and being alive "us" .. no tv show

men since the dawn of time wanted to understand creation.. did creation ever ever tell you? or me? nope xD

we dont need to ask what is creation becouse WE ARE IT .. and math is just our third eye on what "we see" as reality..

people use symbols just to repistent shapes infinity creation!!

kinda daft if u ask me but some people go way to far lol "masons" ect..

its not a secret.. its just they like to think it is when ITS NOT..

You don't believe there is any real conpiracy? You think they're just sitting around twiddling their thumbs and giving each other wet willies all day? C'mon, a bunch of powerful guys in a club based on secrecy and secret knowledge. Don't you know what mischievous young boys do when they get a few minutes alone in privacy? That's when they hatch their next prank or engineering project, of course. C'mon!

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. How much time does your husband spend doing Mason activities?

theresult - I love your presentation of "math and geometry!"

Quote..."It's an OBJECT"...unquote.

I've been quietly following your posts around the various threads, trying to figure out what you might be on about with your 'Loop" references. Sure, a loops a loop, but what does it mean to you, I wondered. Now, this.

You're putting in Words regarding 'math' and it's symbols, pretty much the same thing I've been saying with the 'metaphysical' jargon thrown in. And since this is now in the metaphyscial forum section, I can let loose!

One thing before I make my 'comment': You say you "don't want to say any more about it right now." I pretty much have the same attitude.

Here's my statement, kinda matching yours: (I've stated this over and over in my posts on ATS).

"There was this wondrous terrestrial alien (oh my!), who, over seven days and nights, 'gave' the Diagramatic Structure and Form of The WORD to me."

Well, The WORD is exactly what you are describing, pre-existing EverAll (jargon), pure Geometrical Structuring coupled with Substance, which I often refer to as The Prime Archetypes. And yes, oh yeah, It's Alive! (shades of Frankenstein!)

And I certainly see why you don't care to elaborate: you'd be here until the run down of eternity, discussing the 'infinity' of it. It is much easier to learn to experience The WORD, than ever it is to wrangle with it in a detached way, for we are the actual expression of it, if only as reflection, here on the atomic planes. It actually communicates with you in infinite geometric forms, straight through the top of the head. As I experience it in meditation & spontaneously, meanings are effortlessly perceived, understood, absorbed, and felt as a substance of force.

Yes, the sacred geometry is indeed an Object, One I was Shown as The WORD, and Substance Thereof.

Not only that, I was shown 'how and where' it came from! Astonishing? Strangely, prowling these boards and the posts and links that some of these 'strange' people come up with, I've shockingly come to realize that others know this very thing, also, and have referred to it clearly. It makes me feel as though I'm not alone.

Thanks, theresult.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by SS,Naga]

What I think he is trying to say is math is the same no matter what language you use or if you even have a language the concept of math has allways been there one apple here one apple there you have two apples. No disputes anywhere that you have two.
Geometry shows how many sides you have and the many aspects there are. Just like the many aspects of life.
There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,

a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,

a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,

a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,

a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

sorry for the quote but it shows that there is many aspects of life and you can't live by only one in the game of life. Person has many sides in thought or his mind and action ,and also pyhsically as you take a picture from front or back. Geometry of a person.
Freemasons think of governemnt and hierarchy of command in a way based on the idea of geometry. The many sides and commands all laced together in one structrue all have there job and all are equally important to each the whole. If you have completed functioning in all the roles of geometry you don't move to supreme ruler just enlightened. There are no 33rds in command they are retired and enlighten or taking part in one of the positions as part of the rest.
hope I made since to some of you.

Math is the Universal Language, the language the universe is coded in. Additionally the Universe is actually MADE of mathematics. It is the fundamental "stuff" of the universe. Look up the Theory of Everything - Garrett Lisi on YouTube. Pretty amazing stuff. He basically concludes that everythhing in the Universe is made of - mathematics.

Somehow I always knew that.

Math isn't everything because everything is already there math is just a concept of how to take it all in and discover. Math doesn't create or destroy only observes.

No everything that exists is an expression of a prior mathematical reality. The math also describes it so that we can understand it. It is a self-actualizing Universal LANGUAGE which is the basis of reality and communicates that reality to us. Watch these YouTube videos; physicists all over the world are starting to think this guy has it right.


Video 1

Video 2

Originally posted by rockhndr
First and foremost this is NOT based on conspiracy theory, just theories in general on Freemasonry and ancient knowledge that they may have been keeping secret-due to condemnation of TPTB of the time...

(quote was too long, couldnt fit my post!)

I actually want to tell you that ive come to this conclusion not long ago. the freemasons have been pushed onto this shelf of "evil secret societies" and i believe this concept to be laughable to say the least. number one, i dont believe the masons to be evil what so ever, infact after almost a year of studying mason history and meeting people with connections to masons and such, it started to make sense that they seemed more like they were protecting ancient secrets rather than evil secrets, exactly how you've described it rockhndr... and number two, everyone PLEASE stop talking about secret societies like they're actual secrets. if the freemasons were a secret society, we wouldnt know about them. of course the lodges that we all have in our towns and cities arent exactly the stockhouses for these ancient secrets, but what if it really did have to do with sacred geometry and such? they pay great respect to the GREAT ARCHITECH OF THE UNIVERSE. it seems to me like they simply held some ancient secrets and could quite possibly know some very earth shaking truths, or maybe they are just experts and math and geometry and architecture, since these all go hand in hand. very interesting topic, thanks for the post!

reply to post by theresult


let me make this easy for you...

math to it's greatest extent and understanding yields understanding the small workings and details, each one, on separate bases, but able to piece together through logic or "calculation".

however, if we were to understand the universe in a MACRO aspect, as in through evolved intuition AND logic...then you would understand.

Singularity, balance, oneness? The two hemishphere's need to be SYMMETRIC in influence and power. With too much focus on logic and reason, math and science, we will FORCE an unnatural imbalance in our mental evolution, similar to our imbalancing of our world's environment...
With balance of reason and feeling, sensing and intuition...

Then you can say hello to divinity.

Oh geez if you wanna know the secret that a few people here who think they know like to tiptoe around and tease people with because it gives them a big...ego...

Here it is. Are you ready? You are the creator of everything experiencing a facet of your creation. Don't think too much about the damn logistics. To control life itself is to miss the point of the reason you are here as you are right now.


Freemasonry is absolutely irrelevant, and even with its so-called great and powerful mysteries, will end up amounting to nothing as the horrifying truth of their poking and prodding into the how and why of everything is shattered by the one final lonely realization.

Let me be my small finite powerless self, because being a Godhead is no fun anymore.

Let me experience finity. Let me suffer. Let me be happy with my small insignificant pleasures. Let life be, goddammit!!!! That's what I say.