Sea Shepherd Protesters Ram Japanese Whalers in Intense Clash

Sorry double post I meant...

"Paul Watson makes us all look bad" Yes he does , we are sitting behind a computer giving our opinion while he actually does something ( though be it very clumsily ).

Is that what you meant ?

Originally posted by mystiq

Originally posted by Leto
The protesters have been pushing too far. As long as the whales aren't in danger of going extinct these whalers should be able to make a living.

Whales are probably the most intelligent being on earth. This is the most heinous act of murder, and is primitive and barbaric, a prime example of the truly grotesque nature of the renegades who run this planet!!!!
Go Sea Shepherd Go!!!!!!!!! You've been my hero's since my childhood!!!!!

Most intelligent being on Earth? You're the first person I've seen who's called a whale a person. But you go much farther than that, you even say it's possible that they're more intelligent that us.

I'll go ahead and debunk this quickly for you. Can whales read? Can whales build and use tools? Can whales control their sexual inhibitions? No, no, no. Let's go further, can whales recognize themselves if a mirror is placed in front of them? Has this experiement been carried out yet? Can a whale make a coherant speech? Can a whale debate with several people? No, no, no. Whales can't even meet the criteria for intelligence.



[edit on 6-2-2009 by Leto]

reply to post by bigfoot1212

i am a big hunter and WILL NOT tolerate cruelty to animals.

good to know

I know you understand what I'm talking about

I'm also sure you've run across a hunter or two who doesn't share your ethical approach

gutting things while they're still alive is only part of this - but it is a very real part of whale slaughter

maybe you can see why it's easy to make the argument that there's no honor involved in this

I can also understand your views on PETA - and I have to say - I'm caught in the middle - I see both sides

some people are against hunting - completely - and it's not like I don't understand their point of view

you see the balance in this world differently than many people - everyone attacks everyone else - it's never ending

thing is - I know you can understand why people are horrified by much of it - even if you view hunting and killing from a completely different perspective than they do

So, the "captain" of the Sea Sheppard made claims, lets take a look at them.

He claimed the Japanese used sound weapons on him and his crew.

Video of the incident clearly shows the crew of the Irwin attempting to foul the prop of the Japanese ship while pelting the ship with chemical weapons while the Japanese try to use this sound weapon as a defensive weapon to try to protect their ship.

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He claimed that the Japanese shot him.

He said he "felt a thud" and discovers a bullet lodged in his vest. Sorry, there is no way in hell that any weapon that was accurate enough to hit a man from another moving vessel would make a "thud". It would knock him off his damn chair and break ribs.
Even though the entire incident was captured on video, there is NO evidence that the Japanese ever fired a shot.
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He claimed the Japanese took his crew hostage.

The video of the incident clearly shows his crew forcing their way onto the Japanese ship and being taken into custody. The "captain", instead of trying to get his crew back, actually jumps for joy and immediately gets on the phone to tell the press that they were taken hostage. What a load of crap.
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Now he claims that the Japanese turned into his ship and he was unable to move out of the way fast enough.


The video of the incident VERY CLEARLY shows the Japanese boat heading in a straight line and the Irwin turning to ram it. Pure lies and BS from the "captain".

Now, no matter what you feel about the whales, you have to agree that the method this POS "captain" is using are despicable. He doesn't even have the balls to own up to what he is doing and tell the truth. EVERYTHING from his mouth is pure bullcrap designed to make people hate the other side.

I have no problem with the fact that he is doing what he is doing. He is convinced he is doing the right thing and his crew is fully informed of his intentions. I have huge problems with his moronic act of innocence throughout the entire thing.

Every time I hear him say something I am reminded about the Rob Reiner episode of South Park. Rob would say and do anything, including killing children, as long as in the end he could make it look like the tobacco companies are evil.

People like this only shove people away from your side of the fence, even if what they are fighting for is just.





[edit on 6-2-2009 by Tiloke]

reply to post by Kalrana

Well considering my reply to an earlier question in regards to torture, i thought it would be clear that i dont support torture of any animal and that includes humans or cruelty, something i cant the same for is NATURE. It can be pretty cruel at times....

don't need the nature can be cruel speech - we're talking about humans here - and there's already been enough arguments that separate "us" from "them" - so comparing the levels of cruelty between the two is irrelevant

also - nature isn't cruel - perfectly willing to have a good debate on that one

and as far as what constitutes cruelty when waiting for something to die - in a large scale operation like whaling - time is money

that's the bottom line - not concern for the creature they're harvesting

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Leto

 

Do you have any clue as to the species they hunt?

Humpback Whale

Fin Whale

BOTH of these species are on the endangered species list. How on earth can you say such things Leto? Where do you get your information?

The Australian people want then Japanese GONE from Southern waters and the very fact that the Japanese government blatantly LIE about why they are hunting these whales - coupled with the fact that they HARPOON the poor creatures is a disgrace - an utter and absolute disgrace.

How would YOU like to be harpooned Leto? Wouldn't feel to nice eh?

Unbelievable. I am flabbergasted.

Enjoy your harpooned Mum and Baby whalemeat dinner Leto.

[edit on 5/2/2009 by Kryties]

I've never had whale before. I wonder what it tastes like. I'll have to try that.

reply to post by Kalrana



"You have obviously never been on a cull where all animals young and old are wiped out."

So you are now saying its an organized "cull" of whales , so killing everything you come into contact with is the actual aim of the Japanese .

Not scientific research or hunting ?

I will say again , if you do not understand the difference you are no hunter. Been razorback hunting lots before with an SLR back in 85 , never shot prege hog or one with young in tow yet. And you are talking about hunting a pest there , not even comparable is it ?

I was in the Navy for a long time , and I will tell you one thing , you can see the young alongside the mothers , they stick very close. So it is deliberate .

reply to post by thedeadtruth

Is that what you meant ?

When you say sitting behind a computer doing nothing, do you speak for yourself? You know nothing about me or what I do.

Whaling is a horrible violent act - why stoop to their level with more violence and aggression? It's entirely possible to stop whaling peacefully and that's exactly what Greenpeace is doing.

reply to post by bkcrt


whale tastes like a tuna steak crossed w/ a delmonico- best reference i can give. kind of like explaining what lamb tastes like- it's impossible. and the blubber is very nutritious but fatty and pickled it is delicious

reply to post by Leto


Original quoted text in bold.

Most intelligent being on Earth? You're the first person I've seen who's called a whale a person. Since when did intelligence become part of only the human species? But you go much farther than that, you even say it's possible that they're more intelligent that us. Typical superiority complex over animals.

I'll go ahead and debunk this quickly for you. Can whales read? Can whales build and use tools? Since when did these become a requirement for sentience? Can whales control their sexual inhibitions? Does that matter? The following sentence of yours answers my question. No, no, no. Let's go further, can whales recognize themselves if a mirror is placed in front of them? Has this experiement been carried out yet? Can a whale make a coherant speech? What, do you want the whales to tap dance for you? Whales have their own speech and speech patterns. Don't expect them to jump through hoops for you to prove anything to you. They can understand each other well enough in their own ways. Can a whale debate with several people? Again, does this matter at all. See next sentence of yours. No, no, no. Whales can't even meet the criteria for intelligence. Are whales sentient? (Are they aware of their own existence?) Yes. Whales are highly intelligent in their own way. Humans have no business deciding what animals are worthy of living or not, or if they are ‘intelligent’ or not.


[edit on 2/6/2009 by Epic Wolf]

Originally posted by bigfoot1212
reply to post by bkcrt

 

whale tastes like a tuna steak crossed w/ a delmonico- best reference i can give. kind of like explaining what lamb tastes like- it's impossible. and the blubber is very nutritious but fatty and pickled it is delicious

Thank you for the description. I'm in America and would thus have to leave the country in order to taste it. Maybe Canada? Can I try whale there?

reply to post by tamusan


Yes , I was poking fun at us , conversing on the nature of the tactics used , when we are safe and dry risking nothing.

Greenpeace have done NOTHING to stop the whaling by the Japanese. At least Watson is making the news. As all ATS members know attention is EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by bigfoot1212
reply to post by bkcrt

 

whale tastes like a tuna steak crossed w/ a delmonico- best reference i can give. kind of like explaining what lamb tastes like- it's impossible. and the blubber is very nutritious but fatty and pickled it is delicious

I actually thought it was bland but there really was no "fish" taste at all. It was more like pretty rare beef soaked in sugar . The Sushi Chef told me before hand it was bland and thats why he served it with a few types of sauces and wasabi.

I didn't try the blubber as I couldn't stop thinking of it as fat.

has anyone seen the show Whale Wars??? well if you want a good laugh then i would definitely recommend it. LOL in one show the captain claimed the japanese shot him. It showed the bullet he pulled out that had "hit his badge and was stopped by his bullet proof vest" even though he had NO BRUISE and in the scene that he was supposedly shot he was smiling. he said he felt a slight prick. major BS.. obviously if you get shot even with a vest on you are going to go to the ground in pain and have massive bruising. getting shot in the heart with a vest on can STILL KILL YOU. this guy is a major douche who just manipulates his crew to do dangerous things while he sits back and reports false crap to the press to get attention. seriously the captain of this ship is the biggest douche in the universe.. forget john edward.... i hope he gets eaten by an orca

Originally posted by Epic Wolf
reply to post by Leto

 

Original quoted text in bold.

Most intelligent being on Earth? You're the first person I've seen who's called a whale a person. Since when did intelligence become part of only the human species? But you go much farther than that, you even say it's possible that they're more intelligent that us. Typical superiority complex over animals.

I'll go ahead and debunk this quickly for you. Can whales read? Can whales build and use tools? Since when did these become a requirement for sentience? Can whales control their sexual inhibitions? Does that matter? The following sentence of yours answers my question. No, no, no. Let's go further, can whales recognize themselves if a mirror is placed in front of them? Has this experiement been carried out yet? Can a whale make a coherant speech? What, do you want the whales to tap dance for you? Whales have their own speech and speech patterns. Don't expect them to jump through hoops for you to prove anything to you. They can understand each other well enough in their own ways. Can a whale debate with several people? Again, does this matter at all. See next sentence of yours. No, no, no. Whales can't even meet the criteria for intelligence. Are whales sentient? (Are they aware of their own existence?) Yes. Whales are highly intelligent in their own way. Humans have no business deciding what animals are worthy of living or not, or if they are ‘intelligent’ or not.


[edit on 2/6/2009 by Epic Wolf]

I was responding to someone's post about intelligence, not sentience, but now that you mention sentience no I do not believe whales meet the criteria for sentience.

Animal activists would like sentience to mean the ability to feel pleasure or pain. That'd mean even plants are sentient. Most philosophers and rational people say sentience requires intelligence, self-awareness, and consciousness. As I noted in my previous post whales don't meet the criteria for intelligence, and as far as I know it hasn't been proven that whales are self-aware.

I actually thought it was bland but there really was no "fish" taste at all. It was more like pretty rare beef soaked in sugar . The Sushi Chef told me before hand it was bland and thats why he served it with a few types of sauces and wasabi.

reply to post by Tiloke

I actually thought it was bland but there really was no "fish" taste at all. It was more like pretty rare beef soaked in sugar . The Sushi Chef told me before hand it was bland and thats why he served it with a few types of sauces and wasabi.

I thought the taste of whale is more like horse, which tastes like a sweet beef. Flavor probably varies from species to species and how many years it was in deep freeze.

See, I have never had horse and never would have made that connection.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to
and as far as what constitutes cruelty when waiting for something to die - in a large scale operation like whaling - time is money

that's the bottom line - not concern for the creature they're harvesting

Its both actually. Agree that time is money. BUT remember the longer an anima is dying the more certain hormones are released in to the animal. These can taint and change the taste of meats, tense muscles etc. Bleeding of a lot of animals especially fish, is very common.
Now a point to remember an animal can be dead but still appear alive. Ever seen a chook get its head chopped and still try to run. Ive shot deer and even though theirs no pulse or breathing the rear legs are still twitching. Their DEAD they just appears their alive
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"So you are now saying its an organized "cull" of whales , so killing everything you come into contact with is the actual aim of the Japanese ."
No not all my comments were aimed at " killing young mothers or pregnant pray (PREY) is considered the lowest of the low." Done plenty of culls with ssaa cpm and parks victoria where any and all non-native animals were destroyed. Young, pregnant, old it didnt matter, they had to be destroyed. Better with a bullet than a slow death via poison

"you can see the young alongside the mothers , they stick very close. So it is deliberate ." Spent a few hours whale watching waiting for tuna to come on the bite, out off Eden a few years back about 5 km from shore. Great watching them dive BUT on a few occassions either the calf or its mother would surface at differnt times depending on how deep they were diving.
This is what i was my basis for the above scenerio