Michael Phelps, hypocrisy and American Drug Policy

reply to post by MichJJC


I agree that drugs at the base product come from the earth but what you aren't understanding is that Marijuana is one of the only ones available today that is grown then smoked without any other chemical process. Crack and Cocaine need to be worked with once taken off the Coca plant, which involves lab work. Opiates such as Heroin also need to be worked with after being taken from the Popi plant. Many other drugs such as Kedimean, '___', and Extacy need to be synthasized in a lab and are almost completely different from the start product. The only other drug that isn't doctored before distribution, that I can think of; is Mushrooms.

So in short Marijuana and Mushrooms are really two of the few drugs not tainted by lab practices.


[edit on 5-2-2009 by TNT13]

reply to post by pyrytyes


I originally posted the vid but either way; innocence isn't that the truth.

1.) Aspergillis
2.) Depression/Suicidal ideation
2.) Amotivational Syndrome
3.) Problems Learning
4.) Schizophrenia
5.) Distorted perceptions
6.) Impaired coordination
7.) Difficulty in thinking and problem solving
8.) Memory failure
9.) Increased Anxiety
10.) Increased mental illnesses risk
11.) Psychotic reactions
12.) Increased Heart attack risk
13.) Cancer (carcinogenic hydrocarbons)
14.) Greater missed days at work/school

I laughed my butt off when I read that list. Thank GOD someone already debunked it...but I'm going in on it too

1. Mold? Okay, don't smoke moldy cannabis. Someone savvy in cannabis is able to spot mold on a cannabis flower and is well aware NOT to smoke it. If it were legalized, regulated, and grown in a controlled environment there would be no issue with mold on the flowers. Not to mention if it were legalized there would geneticists creating varieties of cannabis that are MOLD RESISTANT.

# 2, 4, 10, and 11 are the same thing but thanks for listing mental health issues 4 times. This is a "Reefer Madness" myth. Cannabis may bring about mental issues within people ALREADY WITH A GENETIC DISPOSITION TOWARDS THOSE ILLNESSES. If you have mental health issues, since cannabis puts you more in touch with what you are thinking, IT WILL BRING OUT the screwed up thoughts in your head IF YOU ARE ALREADY HAVING THEM. EVEN ADMITTING THAT MUCH, the cases of suicide/depression/mental illness is FAR FAR FAR less with cannabis than there is with ANTI-DEPRESSANTS... which is kind of strange huh? The average cannabis user has the exact OPPOSITE effects of exactly what you're stating here. It makes people happy and it has an ANTI-anxiety effect. I would love for you to present me one case where someone used cannabis and had a "psychotic reaction."

Your second #2 and #14 are the same as well. Amotivational syndrome is a fancy way of saying LAZY. The fact of the matter is lazy people will be lazy anyway. If Amotivational syndrome was such an issue, why are their so many authors, athletes, politicians, scientists, actors, every day people etc that smoke it? Where is their lack of motivation to write a book, play a sport, work in government, do research, or learn scripts and act? Chalk it up to more government propaganda. Like I said, the fact of the matter is lazy people will be unproductive and those who are productive will be productive.

5. Distorted Perception. Interesting wording. Distort.. which mean changes. Most ATSers can identify that our society is so bass ackwards it's not even funny. Anything that helps someone have a DIFFERENT PERCEPTION than one that perpetuates our society in its current state is only a GOOD thing... hence why it appears as a negative according to our government

6. Impaired coordination. Cannabis has NOWHERE NEAR the effect on coordination that alcohol, a legal substance, does. There is a youtube video of a study done in England on Cannabis and driving. (a legit study, not done by stoners trying to make their case). The driver DID BETTER while under the influence of Cannabis. You can take my word for it, look it up yourself, or if you just flat out think I'm blowing smoke (pun intended) I'll look it up and post a link upon your request...

7 and 8 are the same thing. This is misrepresented. WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE of Cannabis, yes, there is short term memory loss. WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE, you're not going to fly through Calculus or Physics problems... you will stumble.. but I can assure you that you will still get them done. I promise... done this myself... and got As in both courses.. (because I am rational and do not use cannabis before taking tests or quizzes or the sort... but while at home with a couple Physics problems to do, it is quite FUN to smoke a joint and do Physics)

9. Anxiety. I touched on this already... but cannabis USUALLY induces calm, anti anxiety, and happy feelings. Most people aren't aware there a different varieties of cannabis and what is commonly referred to as "Cannabis Sativa" varieties can sometimes cause anxiety. And I will also note that is only SOME varieties and it is completely dependent on the individual user. And if you do smoke one of those Sativa varieties that induce anxiety, it's not life shattering anxiety. It's mostly more like "oh nooo the cops are gonna arrest me" which you could also call PARANOIA

12. Increased heart attack risk. Within the first couple minutes of using cannabis, the user's heart race increases. This is true. But that is the extent of the truth in that statement. If this were true, then you should have no problem finding one case where someone was under the influence of cannabis and had a heart attack. And it has to be a case where the person was in shape physically and did not smoke cigarettes so as to prove that cannabis was the only influencing factor.

13. Cancer. That is a lie... lie... lie. Show me ONE case where a cannabis user who did not use tobacco developed cancer. Just one. As a matter of fact, there is MORE EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST CANNABIS FIGHTS CANCER THAN IT CAUSES IT (because there is none for the latter).

If you question my credibility on any of these topics, I promise I will come back with more reports from Universities than you would honestly look at. I will close my argument with one final statement that NO ONE CAN REFUTE...

Taken from 'The Schaffer Report,' FUNDED BY THE GOVERNMENT...

We have carefully analyzed the interrelationship between marihuana the drug, marihuana use as a behavior, and marihuana as a social problem. Recognizing the extensive degree of misinformation about marihuana as a drug, we have tried to demythologize it. Viewing the use of marihuana in its wider social context, we have tried to desymbolize it.

Considering the range of social concerns in contemporary America, marihuana does not, in our considered judgment, rank very high. We would deemphasize marihuana as a problem.

The existing social and legal policy is out of proportion to the individual and social harm engendered by the use of the drug. To replace it, we have attempted to design a suitable social policy, which we believe is fair, cautious and attuned to the social realities of our time.

Final Sumarry of Schaffer Report

continued from above because of character space...

That report is officially known as: "The Report of the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse...Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding"

Commissioned by President Richard M. Nixon, March, 1972

Nixon was FURIOUS at the findings of the report.. and SQUASHED it, kept it under wraps, and IGNORED the recommendation.

It is worthless to argue against a plant that OUR OWN GOVERNMENT has found to be relatively harmless. MUCH MORE HARMLESS THAN THE FOLLOWING: Alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, prescription drugs.

The debate is NOT whether or not cannabis is safe to use.

The debate IS "why is it still illegal?"

Here is a documentary on cannabis, that never hit main stream media because of the truth and the ramifications it has on cannabis prohibition.. it touches on most if not all of the points I talked about..
The Union - The Business Behind Getting High

Also.. I wanted to edit to add one more nugget of information...

I saw a few arguments pop up about "all drugs are based on a naturally occuring substance." SOME, not all. And what you also aren't aware of is that delta-9-tetrahydracannabinol is NOT the only substance in cannabis that is responsible for its effects. It has other cannabinoids and terpenoids created in the plant that IN ADDITION TO THC, give you the effect from cannabis. This is why synthetic THC pills such as Marinol do NOT have the same effect as natural cannabis.

I would love to hear your take on all this, especially the Schaffer report... Saint4God

[edit on 5-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

All I can say is that I have known a lot of "potheads" in my day, and they have been the kindest, most giving people I have ever known. The only exception to that would be the ones that drank heavily also, they were often jerks. But I couldn't really classify them as potheads because they would do any drug they could get their hands on.

I had one friend who smoked cigarettes and pot, his doctor found a spot on his lung and told him he had to stop smoking. He told her he smoked weed as well and asked if he needed to stop that too. She told him not to worry about the pot at all, but the cigarettes had to go. But at least they are legal.

I've seen drunk people do some repugnant ass stupid crap. But at least alcohol is legal.

Oh come on guys! As if you are actually going to put your National Olympic Hero behind bars on account of a photo??

There are people who Deserve the double standard....and simply people that don't.

IMO Phelps has done enough for the country to deserve to get away with a bong hit photo.

reply to post by ImaNutter


Excellent posts my friend!! I love it how people seem to believe all cannabis users are the same and that somehow it is more dangerous than Alcohol.

reply to post by Nick_X


You have to assume that he's done it before. Wouldn't this be a great argument that pot doesn't impair performance and is in fact mostly harmless?

reply to post by oconnection


Thank you for bringing this up!

I was having a conversation with someone about this and we both decided that they are looking at this situation BACKWARDS.

Michael Phelps is not bad or irresponsible for taking a toke out of a bong.

It shows that YOU CAN SMOKE CANNABIS, BE RESPONSIBLE, AND WIN 8 FREAKING GOLD MEDALS. Or be the President of the United States, or be a musician, or be an author, or be an actor, or be any number of politicians, be a physicist, start a multi-billion dollar company (Steve Jobs), be a doctor, be an engineer, and the list goes on and on and on.....

In that documentary I posted, there is a perfect quote that says...

"Although smoking cannabis isn't addictive, learning the truth certainly is, and the truth is infectious, and you can't deny the truth forever."

Game. Set. Match.

Cannabis has been around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years FOR A REASON... (and it's not going anywhere)

reply to post by Dramey
Why not speak the truth?

Michael Phelps should not be demonized over pot smoking, and should not have apologized for doing it.

Most people that don't smoke pot would be surprised at how normal people are that smoke. They are normal, responsible people, and there are a lot more people that smoke than people think. We just have to hide the fact that we do, because of how it has been lied about. Pot should be legalized.

I worked for the same company for 15 years, and out of the 50, 60 people that worked there, a large portion had worked there for 10 years or more. Fully half, if not more, smoked. Most of the ones that smoked had the best attendance records, were responsible, and were great employees, much more so than the people who drank.

Years ago, my fiancee had to go to court over having some weed, and
during the case, the judge asked him what he had to say for himself, and he told the judge that he was sure when the judge was done with court, he probably went home at night and had two or three drinks to relax which was his drug of choice, and that was ok , because it was legal.

He told the judge that since alcohol was poison to his system, and he couldn't drink, after a hard day's work, he went home and smoked pot to relax. (He owned his own business as a bricklayer, building custom homes)

He then went on to say to the Judge that he had worked in a bar as a bartender, and from personal experience, if anyone was going to cause trouble, it was usually the drinkers that got riled up and caused trouble, not the pot smokers.

When the judge asked him if he had learned his lesson and was he going to stop smoking, he told the Judge that if alcohol was legal even with all the problems it causes, pot, which was a lot less likely to cause problems should be legal, and he would still continue to smoke it, no matter what anyone said.

(The judge admitted he had a point, but it was still against the law, probation, work detail, community service)

A great topic to show who actually thinks for themselves and who just replies with what they are told.

I too, would like to see this topic as a channel all unto its own here at ATS.

One thing that continues to be overlooked in these polarizing rants is the understanding of time and place behavior. Training for the Olympics is not the time for pot, in an airport is not the place for pot. Being in a dorm room with friends after you've scored eight gold medals and all the pressure is off, is the time and place to hit a bong. Sorry, no foul for Phelps here.

Message to Phelps: If they give you anymore crap, go ahead and tell everybody that you've been smoking weed since you were 13 so we can all have this non-sense overturned.

People are quite able to achieve greatness or failure irregardless of moderate recreational drug use......drugs do not have to be illegal to be abused......ask any judge if they need for a substance to be illegal to mandate a rational recovery plan for an abuser....the only real and proven negative side effect of moderate marijuana consumption is the legal side effect.... hopefully, someone new gets the point.


E.T.

reply to post by wavejumper
The Bible says something like "and every good herb for food" which since herbs are meant to be used for medicine also.....The Lord just doesn't want us to over do it with anything, He even turned water into wine.

i guess nothing else is more important these days?
legalize it!

Originally posted by sezsue
reply to post by wavejumper
The Bible says something like "and every good herb for food" which since herbs are meant to be used for medicine also.....The Lord just doesn't want us to over do it with anything, He even turned water into wine.

 

Exodus 30

22Moreover the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

23Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,

24And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:

25And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.

Calamus is a mistranslation. In the hebrew, it is "Kineboisin", also sometimes spelled "kannabosm", which is the word for cannabis.

It is used in anointing oils apparently.

I'm no expert on this, so I can't say for certain this is true. Someone might can debunk it. I tried to find rebuttles to it, but people mostly said stuff like "so what if it's true", and then gave other reasons why god is wrong and it's still bad.

Others like the link below say it's crazy, then go on to make fun of it like "how could someone even suggest it", and goes on to say that the place that said it(Hebrew University in Jerusalem) promoted homosexuality and many other things. And also goes on to say even if it was true, blah blah blah.

www.jesus-is-savior.com...

So basically, I don't know if it's true or not, but the arguments against that I've seen have been weak at best.

There is nothing wrong at all with smoking pot. There is nothing wrong at all with using most drugs as long as you keep it under control and do not fall into addiction.

Methamphetamine and crack are the only two drugs I have a problem with.

As long as you aren't a complete fool and educate yourself to the fullest about what you are using there should be no problem with drugs.

Unfortunately in this society I don't see decent drug education happening anytime soon. Just government propaganda poured down everyone's throats about "Drugs are bad!!", "Drugs kill!!" When in fact that is not the case if you are a responsible, educated user.

I don't like the fact that Phelps said he acted in a youthful, immature way. There is nothing youthful or immature about drug use. Oh, wait, guess because it's illegal it is.

Yeah right, look at alcohol and tobacco which damage the body far more than cannabis does. You don't see people apologizing about using them. Hell even a lot of pharmaceutical drugs are terrible for you.

Unfortunately nothing will be changing soon =/

I posted this in the thread entitled DEA continues pot raids Obama opposes but it is just as appropriate here and needs to be spread to as many people as possible....



Just want to chime in here with some verifiable statistics and information on this supposed [sarcasm] dangerous drug [/sarcasm]

Nobody has EVER died from taking only cannabis. EVER. You want proof? Here you go...

LD50 (the dose required to kill half of the research subjects) is the consumption of roughly 1 kilogram (35.2739619 ounces) of cannabis in 1 minute!!

en.wikipedia.org...

There has never been a documented human fatality from marijuana. Information about THC's toxicity is derived from animal studies. The toxicity depends on the route of administration and the laboratory animal. Absorption is limited by serum lipids, which can become saturated with THC, mitigating toxicity. According to the Merck Index, 12th edition, THC has a LD50 (dose killing half of the research subjects) value of 1270 mg/kg (male rats) and 730 mg/kg (female rats) administered orally dissolved in sesame oil. The LD50 value for rats by inhalation of THC is 42 mg/kg of body weight. One estimate of Cannabis's LD50 for humans indicates that about 1500 pounds of marijuana would have to be smoked within 15 minutes. This estimate is supported by studies which indicate that the effective dose of THC is at least 1000 times lower than the estimated lethal dose (a "safety ratio" of 1000:1). This is much higher than alcohol (safety ratio of 10), coc aine (15), or heroin (6).

www.druglibrary.org...

What is the lethal dose of marijuana?

According to which US Government authority you want to believe, the lethal dose of marijuana is either about one-third your body weight, or about 1,500 pounds, consumed all at once.

In summary, enormous doses of Delta 9 THC, All THC and concentrated marihuana extract ingested by mouth were unable to produce death or organ pathology in large mammals but did produce fatalities in smaller rodents due to profound central nervous system depression.

The non-fatal consumption of 3000 mg/kg A THC by the dog and monkey would be comparable to a 154-pound human eating approximately 46 pounds (21 kilograms) of 1%-marihuana or 10 pounds of 5% hashish at one time. In addition, 92 mg/kg THC intravenously produced no fatalities in monkeys. These doses would be comparable to a 154-pound human smoking at one time almost three pounds (1.28 kg) of 1%-marihuana or 250,000 times the usual smoked dose and over a million times the minimal effective dose assuming 50% destruction of the THC by smoking.

Thus, evidence from animal studies and human case reports appears to indicate that the ratio of lethal dose to effective dose is quite large. This ratio is much more favorable than that of many other common psychoactive agents including alcohol and barbiturates (Phillips et al. 1971, Brill et al. 1970).

Now compare that to the likes of 'legal drugs' such as alcohol or tobacco. It blows them out of the water.

[edit on 6/2/2009 by Kryties]

Wildbob77 touched on what I would add:

Michael Phelps just bubbled away hundreds of millions in corporate ad
sponsorships!!!
At least from all the mainstream companies...Look at Michael Jordan-He's still doing ads, and has become the highest-paid athlete in the history of the world. Remember Phelps saying he wanted to be like Jordan?

That's finished.
Maybe NORML can use him now???

Originally posted by FRIGHTENER
Wildbob77 touched on what I would add:

Michael Phelps just bubbled away hundreds of millions in corporate ad
sponsorships!!!
At least from all the mainstream companies...Look at Michael Jordan-He's still doing ads, and has become the highest-paid athlete in the history of the world. Remember Phelps saying he wanted to be like Jordan?

That's finished.
Maybe NORML can use him now???

Phelps didn't do anything wrong. The idiot that released the picture is what caused all this. And only because marijuana is so idiotically demonized by the media and government.

reply to post by PullThePin

Hey thanks, I agree! Nothing wrong with a little mother nature!
Sorry if it came off that way, didn't mean to; don't pull the pin on me, man!

I just meant all the goody-goody images the major corporations try to keep, ya know?

I say cover the lands with it, brother!

I suppose now he'll quit paying taxes and before you know it on his way to congress!! It seems loke the only career path left for him.