Michael Phelps, hypocrisy and American Drug Policy

It lools like they plan on making an example of Mr. Phelps;

WIS News 10 - Columbia, SC

What a bunch of fools, guy smokes a little weed, and losing his multi-million dollar sponsorship deal is not punishment enough? Jack-booted thugs.

I've been sent a U2U asking why I haven't responded. I've been sick since Sunday and have been trying to cut down time on the computer. Sorry for any inconvenience. Regard the responses, there's still no repeal for the previous facts presented and certified by those who hold a PhD in medicine as well as to those who can verify with personal testimony of family members who's lives have been destroyed by taking the drug.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by yadboy
It lools like they plan on making an example of Mr. Phelps;

WIS News 10 - Columbia, SC

What a bunch of fools, guy smokes a little weed, and losing his multi-million dollar sponsorship deal is not punishment enough? Jack-booted thugs.

He represents America on the biggest stage in the world. He should not only lose his sponsorships, but be banned from USA Swimming permanently. He's an embarrassment.

Technically america's the embarrassment, he's just like the rest of the (actually) civilized countries that most people wish they could go to.

Just because you have something against people that smoke doesn't mean you should act completely ignorant.

Originally posted by saint4God
I've been sent a U2U asking why I haven't responded. I've been sick since Sunday and have been trying to cut down time on the computer. Sorry for any inconvenience. Regard the responses, there's still no repeal for the previous facts presented and certified by those who hold a PhD in medicine as well as to those who can verify with personal testimony of family members who's lives have been destroyed by taking the drug.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by saint4God]

You obviously don't care, and you edited your post to remove "quote norml all you want", but here are FACTS and studies from those who hold PhD's in Medicine...

Cannabis and Driving

Harvard Study Finds Marijuana Cuts Lung Cancer Tumor Growth in Half

18 of Nature's Most Powerful Medicinal Plants (Cannabis is #1)

UCLA Study finds no connection between Cannabis and Cancer

Cannabinoids promote new brain cell growth: anxioltic and antidepressant

Cannabis and the Brain - A User's Guide

Documentary on Cannabis containing interviews with Physicists, Medical Professors, Authors, Politicians on Cannabis

And since you ignored it before, I'll say it again... coming from the government that still fights to keep it illegal... THE SCHAFFER REPORT, FUNDED BY RICHARD NIXON...

We have carefully analyzed the interrelationship between marihuana the drug, marihuana use as a behavior, and marihuana as a social problem. Recognizing the extensive degree of misinformation about marihuana as a drug, we have tried to demythologize it. Viewing the use of marihuana in its wider social context, we have tried to desymbolize it.

Considering the range of social concerns in contemporary America, marihuana does not, in our considered judgment, rank very high. We would deemphasize marihuana as a problem.

The existing social and legal policy is out of proportion to the individual and social harm engendered by the use of the drug. To replace it, we have attempted to design a suitable social policy, which we believe is fair, cautious and attuned to the social realities of our time.

taken from : Schaffer Report Summary (this link also contains the entirety of the report through other links)

Brain damage myth and Depression myth (it actually does quite the opposite)
"Cannabinoids promote embryonic and adult hippocampus neurogenesis and produce anxiolytic- and antidepressant-like effects"
taken from: www.encod.org...

Smoking cannabis impairs you for days, or weeks myth
"Most impairment studies have found that the adverse effects of acute marijuana use wear off in 2-6 hours, commonly faster than alcohol"
taken from: www.ccguide.org.uk...


The truth is Saint4God, cannabis is not as harmful as you say it is. Can it be harmful? Sure... if the USER is not responsible. Which can be said about ANYTHING in this world. I do not recommend smoking cannabis all day every day for the rest of your life. I don't recommend smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol, popping pain pills, drinking coffee, or eating cheesburgers all day every day for the rest of your life either. And Cannabis is much safer in moderation than all of those I just mentioned.

Also, I noticed in later posts you stated "we can't use personal experience as evidence," which voids your sob stories about your family. If we aren't allowed to use our own FIRST HAND experience, then you sure as heck can't use your SECOND hand experience... and this is according to YOUR OWN STANDARDS. What I have to say about that, is a family member should have stepped in. You should have let them know their priorities were getting mixed up... which is a USER PROBLEM.. not a cannabis problem (if it were a cannabis problem, ALL cannabis users would fall into despair as your family did... and they don't... ask Steve Jobs). If they didn't respond to your plea for help, then you should have resorted to other means aka: an intervention, or maybe call police (that'll straighten 'em out), or have them see a psychiatrist. This happens with alcohol, a legal drug, all the time. MUCH more often than it does with cannabis.

The problem is the majority of society fails to address the core of ANY problem. A great example is everyone is coming up with crazy theories to fix our economy, but only a person or two is calling for the end of The Federal Reserve. Another PERFECT example is cannabis... if someone has a problem in their life and they use cannabis, blame cannabis. Don't question the person's integrity, work ethic, priorities, or mental state... blame it on cannabis. That is ludicrous... there could be a thousand causes for the crap they're going through, but is just way too easy to demonize cannabis. Not to mention there is not one chemical substance that is addictive in cannabis. You can smoke for 365 days straight... stop cold turkey... and your body will not shake, you won't get headaches, you won't become irritable for no reason... which you can't say the same for alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine.

When compared to legal substances such as tobacco, alcohol, caffeine, prescription meds, over the counter meds... cannabis is less dangerous than all of the above.

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by yadboy
It lools like they plan on making an example of Mr. Phelps;

WIS News 10 - Columbia, SC

What a bunch of fools, guy smokes a little weed, and losing his multi-million dollar sponsorship deal is not punishment enough? Jack-booted thugs.

He represents America on the biggest stage in the world. He should not only lose his sponsorships, but be banned from USA Swimming permanently. He's an embarrassment.

LOL. He accomplished more in one Olympics than you will accomplish in all of your life.... AND HE SMOKES CANNABIS.

Who is the emberassment here?

Yes, I removed that quote it because I have no intention of blasting a website, rather the use of pot. It was off-topic hence the removal. Here's the skinny, the PhD's I quoted says "here are the effects" and I saw these effects with my eyes. Proof is verified for me so unless you can come over here and fix the lives of the two people in my family that got jacked up by it, there's really nothing you can say or quote to change their situation. I understand you're agressively defending the drug ImaNutter, I'm not here to take it away for you (that's not my job), rather to present the facts for review and let the reader make an educated decision.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by ImaNutter

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by yadboy
It lools like they plan on making an example of Mr. Phelps;

WIS News 10 - Columbia, SC

What a bunch of fools, guy smokes a little weed, and losing his multi-million dollar sponsorship deal is not punishment enough? Jack-booted thugs.

He represents America on the biggest stage in the world. He should not only lose his sponsorships, but be banned from USA Swimming permanently. He's an embarrassment.

LOL. He accomplished more in one Olympics than you will accomplish in all of your life.... AND HE SMOKES CANNABIS.

Who is the emberassment here?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Because he's a great athlete means he can't be an embarrassment? How about OJ Simpson, or M. Tyson? Would you like to have them represent the US?

Originally posted by stevegmu
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Because he's a great athlete means he can't be an embarrassment? How about OJ Simpson, or M. Tyson? Would you like to have them represent the US?

Not to attack anyone here but the law, why is Phelps an embarrassment for smoking a little herb when its pretty much customary for everyone to indulge in a bit of alcohol every once and a while?

How can you really even put the word embarrassment and Phelps in the same category? 14 gold medals. 14.

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by stevegmu
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Because he's a great athlete means he can't be an embarrassment? How about OJ Simpson, or M. Tyson? Would you like to have them represent the US?

Not to attack anyone here but the law, why is Phelps an embarrassment for smoking a little herb when its pretty much customary for everyone to indulge in a bit of alcohol every once and a while?

How can you really even put the word embarrassment and Phelps in the same category? 14 gold medals. 14.

Alcohol is legal. You have a link for a study or survey showing that everyone drinks? Besides, when was the last time you have seen an athlete in a beer or liquor commercial?

Mike Tyson- former heavyweight champion. OJ Simpson- Hall of Famer. Just because someone is/was a great athlete doesn't mean they can't also be an embarrassment. He represents America. If M. Phelps runs someone down and kills them in a blackout, does he deserve a pass because he won 14 medals?

Sorry but I had to say this...Phelps is NOT a great athlete...Athlete means he is great or atleast good in NUMEROUS sports. Phelps IS the best SWIMMER to ever live...no question...lets just make sure thats clear.

As for the "weed" thing...its simple...as of right now "weed" is illegal, just like stealing, murdering, etc....whether you agree or disagree witht he law...he wanted to be an olympian, he wanted to be the greatest swimmer ever, he did both....yet he didn't have the dicipline or common sense to NOT smoke the drug or atleast do it OUT of the public eye/around other dopers. Noone is to blame but himself...he is a grown man who made a choice. If the day ever comes that weed is made legal then so be it MP...spoke away...but stop the arguing about how the cops and olympics committee ruined his life, career, etc...only one person did that...and hes the one in the picture holding the bong!

By the way...does his getting caught, getting high take away from his accomplishments...NOPE...not in my eyes...just his lack of judgement....

This man has accomplished more than anyone could on the planet and your bitching because of a pic of him with a WATER bong. Alleged marijuana, those things can be used for tobacco to. Double standard my ass. He cant go to jail and should not lose his metals for this specially when its legal in most of the countries of the world.

Originally posted by saint4God
Yes, I removed that quote it because I have no intention of blasting a website, rather the use of pot. It was off-topic hence the removal. Here's the skinny, the PhD's I quoted says "here are the effects" and I saw these effects with my eyes. Proof is verified for me so unless you can come over here and fix the lives of the two people in my family that got jacked up by it, there's really nothing you can say or quote to change their situation. I understand you're agressively defending the drug ImaNutter, I'm not here to take it away for you (that's not my job), rather to present the facts for review and let the reader make an educated decision.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by saint4God]

And the facts are even during 1972 with the Schaffer Report YOUR OWN Government knew Cannabis wasn't as harmful as you make it out to be... and there are more studies in this thread by acclaimed PhD's supporting cannabis than there are against it. You're simply ignoring what you asked for, ignoring what you don't want to hear... because you have family members who screwed up and you didn't help them.

Also, I noticed in later posts you stated "we can't use personal experience as evidence," which voids your sob stories about your family. If we aren't allowed to use our own FIRST HAND experience, then you sure as heck can't use your SECOND hand experience... and this is according to YOUR OWN STANDARDS. What I have to say about that, is a family member should have stepped in. You should have let them know their priorities were getting mixed up... which is a USER PROBLEM.. not a cannabis problem (if it were a cannabis problem, ALL cannabis users would fall into despair as your family did... and they don't... ask Steve Jobs). If they didn't respond to your plea for help, then you should have resorted to other means aka: an intervention, or maybe call police (that'll straighten 'em out), or have them see a psychiatrist. This happens with alcohol, a legal drug, all the time. Ever heard of an intervention? MUCH more often than it does with cannabis.

The problem is the majority of society fails to address the core of ANY problem. A great example is everyone is coming up with crazy theories to fix our economy, but only a person or two is calling for the end of The Federal Reserve. Another PERFECT example is cannabis... if someone has a problem in their life and they use cannabis, blame cannabis. Don't question the person's integrity, work ethic, priorities, or mental state... blame it on cannabis. That is ludicrous... there could be a thousand causes for the crap they're going through, but is just way too easy to demonize cannabis. Not to mention there is not one substance that is addictive in cannabis. You can smoke for 365 days straight... stop cold turkey... and your body will not shake, you won't get headaches, you won't become irritable for no reason... which you can't say the same for alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine.

When compared to legal substances such as tobacco, alcohol, caffeine, prescription meds, over the counter meds... cannabis is less dangerous than all of the above. It isn't unreasonable to legalize cannabis and regulate it in the same way as alcohol and then ask users to practice the same responsibility we ask them to use with alcohol. If you went home every night and drank a 6 pack, you would become an alcoholic and put yourself at risk of many many diseases and possibly death. My father died an alcohol related death so I have seen first hand that alcohol is a very REAL killer. My dad drank like a fish, he's dead.. your family members smoked cannabis, they're alive. You figure it the heck out. If you went home each night and smoked a joint of cannabis, you would live a much more stress free life and not subject yourself to even a fraction of the dangers of alcohol use. And I dare you to find one death caused by any sickness attributed to cannabis....as a matter of fact, in spite of every medical journal, of every study, of every fact I have posted in this thread.... if you find one death caused by an illness directly caused by cannabis and cannabis alone, I will leave ATS forever.... that is how sure I am that despite your profession, you have no fricking clue what you are talking about.

End... of.... story.

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by Reddupo

Originally posted by stevegmu
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Because he's a great athlete means he can't be an embarrassment? How about OJ Simpson, or M. Tyson? Would you like to have them represent the US?

Not to attack anyone here but the law, why is Phelps an embarrassment for smoking a little herb when its pretty much customary for everyone to indulge in a bit of alcohol every once and a while?

How can you really even put the word embarrassment and Phelps in the same category? 14 gold medals. 14.

Alcohol is legal. You have a link for a study or survey showing that everyone drinks? Besides, when was the last time you have seen an athlete in a beer or liquor commercial?

Mike Tyson- former heavyweight champion. OJ Simpson- Hall of Famer. Just because someone is/was a great athlete doesn't mean they can't also be an embarrassment. He represents America. If M. Phelps runs someone down and kills them in a blackout, does he deserve a pass because he won 14 medals?

This has to be the most illogical argument I've ever heard.

1. Alcohol kills more people in one week than cannabis kills in THE EXISTENCE OF MANKIND. (wrap your head around that)
2. Mike Tyson - bit someones ear off (and I don't even remember all the other jacked up shat he did) OJ Simpson - armed robbery
... smoking cannabis is nothing like this! Smoking cannabis is below the harmful scale of smoking a cigarette or drinking a cup of coffee! I am proud to have Phelps represent the country as I am glad the rest of the world and rest of the country will see the craziness in the situation, except for the illogical and unreasonable ones like yourself who believe if its a law then I must follow it. Thank God MLK, Rosa Parks, Thomas Jefferson didn't think like you....

And no, I wouldn't have these guys represent America. Phelps? Yes. An armed robber and an ear-biter-offer.. no. A man with lungs of a whale, 14 gold medals, and an Olympic world record likely to never be broken, and he smokes cannabis... that is a great representative for modern America. And people say cannabis makes you lazy hehehe

You're right, he is the perfect representation of America. A large portion of the country smokes Cannabis, our Presidents smoke cannabis, our athletes smoke Cannabis, our professors smoke cannabis, but is against the law. Don't worry though, you can openly admit it and become President of the US.

AMERICA = EPITOME OF HYPOCRISY

If Michael Phelps killed someone... he should be tried and sentenced... duh. What a toolish argument. Cannabis has been around longer than Christianity for a reason folks...

[edit on 12-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

Originally posted by ImaNutter
You're simply ignoring what you asked for, ignoring what you don't want to hear... because you have family members who screwed up and you didn't help them.

Why would I have 'helped them' if pot wouldn't screw up their life? Oh, but it did and indeed I should have. Now your placing blame on me for being one who used to listen to the same advice you're giving.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
Also, I noticed in later posts you stated "we can't use personal experience as evidence," which voids your sob stories about your family.

The point you've missed is plainly, "just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen to others". You may not have gone to rehab for it, but I know those who have.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
If we aren't allowed to use our own FIRST HAND experience, then you sure as heck can't use your SECOND hand experience...

Observation is the first part of the scientific method, not trying poisons for yourself.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
You should have let them know their priorities were getting mixed up... which is a USER PROBLEM.. not a cannabis problem (if it were a cannabis problem, ALL cannabis users would fall into despair as your family did... and they don't... ask Steve Jobs). If they didn't respond to your plea for help, then you should have resorted to other means aka: an intervention, or maybe call police (that'll straighten 'em out), or have them see a psychiatrist. This happens with alcohol, a legal drug, all the time. Ever heard of an intervention? MUCH more often than it does with cannabis.

Whenever you say "you should...", you're making a series of assumptions that are oft false. Again, first you say "pot is no problem" now you're saying I should have intervened because it's a problem. I'm not so double-minded and am capable of learning from mistakes.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
My dad drank like a fish, he's dead.. your family members smoked cannabis, they're alive.

Alcoholism is deadly, pot can screw up your life.

Originally posted by ImaNutter
And I dare you to find one death caused by any sickness attributed to cannabis....as a matter of fact, in spite of every medical journal, of every study, of every fact I have posted in this thread.... if you find one death caused by an illness directly caused by cannabis and cannabis alone, I will leave ATS forever....

Deal.

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

[edit on 12-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I've been sent a U2U asking why I haven't responded. I've been sick since Sunday and have been trying to cut down time on the computer. Sorry for any inconvenience. Regard the responses, there's still no repeal for the previous facts presented and certified by those who hold a PhD in medicine as well as to those who can verify with personal testimony of family members who's lives have been destroyed by taking the drug.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by saint4God]

What about the PHD's who support it...


Or the families who were made whole again by the drug?

Both of those exist as well. I know plenty of families who's lives have been enhanced and troubles removed because of the drug.




[edit on 12-2-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by saint4God


I am typically on your side. You haven't lost me yet but I have a question that I think only you can answer. Is there a plant, which can be smoked, that is free of any chemical which can naturally produce a high? I understand that any smoke inhaled may eventually cause cancer or another illness but is there an herb or other plant which won't provide a high and will not cause instant death on contact with the lungs?

reply to post by saint4God


Look up the LD-50 for cannabis, that statistic you posted is impossible. Since you're supposedly a biochemist then I know certainly you are aware of the implications of cannabis' LD-50.

Also, cant find an article or anything verifying that statistic and I have the place and the year and hmmm no luck, go figure.. all that comes up is that "information" you posted a link to. This is not a documented case.

In 1995, based on thirty years of scientific research, editors of the British medical journal Lancet concluded that “the smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health."

I trust 30 years of research and a plant that's been around longer than Christianity, not a programmable sheep like yourself. I have wasted too much time posting medical journals and studies that you asked for to have them be completely ignored. I'm done with this thread.

Also let it be known that Saint4God had no rebuttal for the Schaffer Report, a study funded my Richard Nixon in the 70's which found we have been lied to about cannabis... and Saint4God is attempting to continue those lies

The truth will set you free.




[edit on 12-2-2009 by ImaNutter]

reply to post by saint4God



Really, are you kidding? You dont have to be blind to see, but marijuana is the least harmful, least addictive, and by far the least dangerous "drug" out there. I mean, do you consume caffeine, because if you do your taking a drug that has been proven to be more addictive than marijuana. I mean, one simply has top look at the number of people killed every year by marijuana, compared to all the other chemicals that are pushed on us everyday.

Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Tobacco 435,0001
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,0001
Alcohol 85,000 1
Microbial Agents 75,0001
Toxic Agents 55,0001
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,3471
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,0002
Suicide 30,6223
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,0001
Homicide 20,3084
Sexual Behaviors 20,0001
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,0001,
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,6006
Marijuana 0

Drugwarfacts.org

3. How many people are actually killed by drugs?

The number of drug deaths in the US in a typical year is as follows:

* Tobacco kills about 390,000.
* Alcohol kills about 80,000.
* Sidestream smoke from tobacco kills about 50,000.
* Cocaine kills about 2,200.
* Heroin kills about 2,000.
* Aspirin kills about 2,000.
* Marijuana kills 0. There has never been a recorded death due to marijuana at any time in US history.
* All illegal drugs combined kill about 4,500 people per year, or about one percent of the number killed by alcohol and tobacco. Tobacco kills more people each year than all of the people killed by all of the illegal drugs in the last century.

Source: NIDA Research Monographs

www.druglibrary.org...

Originally posted by saint4God

Two of these deaths were reported as being induced, or directly caused, by marijuana (that is, an overdose).

- www.drugwatch.org...

...

This report presents only the numbers of deaths where marijuana was the only drug involved (although alcohol may also have been used).

From your report.

I'm sure every "case" you scrape together of a marijuana overdose will be vague and improperly documented like this.


[edit on 12-2-2009 by Reddupo]