Why would anyone say ‘religion’ is here…to ‘control’ people?

reply to post by cancerian42



Thank you C for the answers....and your time...OT, too, is glad it loves us...


Have a good night!

OT

Originally posted by OldThinker


1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?
2) Why?
3) Your evidence?
4) Did you once believe?
5) Did you change?
6) Why are you an atheist?
7) Why are you an agnostic?
8) Why you are a christian?
9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?

1,all religions have a set of rules for the faithful and how the faithful should respond to the unfaithful
this sets the faithful (chose a religion) against the unfaithful,nonmembers of typically one is required to support and succor the faithful and exclude by whatever means the unfaithful

2 why? to further the political economic and military goals of the Elite who are mostly placed as God or agents of Gods will

3 my evidence is simply the whole of history and it reasons for conflict and war as described in almost every Holy Text that has ever been written

4 I did once believe (christian) I was very interested in the bible and I studied it until I no longer believed in it

5 did I change ? not essentially I just feel happier and more grounded now

6 I call myself an atheist so I'm out of the rest of the questions

reply to post by invisiblewoman



Thanks...note 7-9 got cut off...

OT

reply to post by OldThinker

1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?
2) Why?
3) Your evidence?
4) Did you once believe?
5) Did you change?
6) Why are you an atheist?
7) Why are you an agnostic?
8) Why you are a christian?
9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?

Hey OT how goes ?

1] Yes
2]Because it can
3]CONTROL 2 a: to exercise restraining or directing influence over : regulate b: to have power over : rule c: to reduce the incidence or severity of especially to innocuous levels
intransitive verb

10 Commandments

Golden calf

Sodom and G

Council of Nicea

Numbers 16:41-49 But on the morrow all the congregation of the children of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, saying, Ye have killed the people of the Lord. And it came to pass, when the congregation was gathered against Moses and against Aaron, that they looked toward the tabernacle of the congregation: and, behold, the cloud covered it, and the glory of the Lord appeared. And Moses and Aaron came before the tabernacle of the congregation. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Get you up from among this congregation, that I may consume them as in a moment. And they fell upon their faces. And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the Lord; the plague is begun. And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people. And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stayed. Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred, beside them that died about the matter of Korah.
To be continued --------

4]NOPE
5]n/a
6]n/a
7]n/a
8]n/a
9]commander Data

[edit on 4-2-2009 by moocowman]

PAUSE!!!!!


Guys, thank you so much for the posts/thoughts/etc...


I have to go for a bit...dinners calling...in THE SHOW ME State this week...

Co-workers are calling, I'm the DD tonight...


I'll check back later...

OT

PS: Please keep um coming...and hey, if you are still hanging out here..please encourage the new folks to answer the questions with their first post, ok?

See'll ya'll in a bit, ok

reply to post by moocowman



mooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It goes good, gotta go, for a while...I'll be back man!!

How's kids?

OT

Originally posted by OldThinker

1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?
2) Why?
3) Your evidence?
4) Did you once believe?
5) Did you change?
6) Why are you an atheist?
7) Why are you an agnostic?
8) Why you are a christian?
9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?

1) Like previous posters have said, organized religion, or dogma is all about controlling the masses.

2) Keeping people ignorant by hiding/distorting the truth. Making money when poor people starve.

3) Priests/bishops driving BMWs and Mercedes while their "children" are starving. If this isn't a complete perversion of Jesus' "If you have two, give one away" then I don't know is.

4) I did and I do. I lost faith in the people saying I need them as medium between me and God (i.e. the priests). I didn't lose faith in God, I lost faith in those who use His name.

5) See #4

6) I am not an atheist.

7) I am not an agnostic.

8) If a christian is one who believes in Jesus' teachings then yes. If christian is one who belongs in one of the many denominations then no.

9) I think God should be exactly as He is You cannot improve on perfection, can you?

Nice thread OT

reply to post by OldThinker


I've been very into reading slave books and slave narratives. In the past couple days I've read Incidents in the life of a slave girl and Thirty Years a Slave. In quite a few of the books I've read, they mention this. They didn't want them to be able to read a bible because they would read other parts that didn't mesh with what they'd been told about slaves. Therefore, a slave owner controlled his mass of slaves with lies from the bible.

I agree with another poster who says that people are controlled by religion because they are told if they don't " accept god as their personal savior, they will go to hell eternally." That is controlling people by religion.

reply to post by 420prajna


Christianity allows you to make that decision, like in todays world. You can kill someone and go to jail, there are necessary punishments would you want anyone to go around and steal or kill without punishment? Would you rather there not have be punishments? With freewill there comes tremendous responsibility and tremendous conseqeunces.

Luckily christianity says this what you need to do to go to heaven, follow it or not, it is your choice. Your personaly decsion.

I have a few questions, if you may…please no flaming, ‘civility and decorum’ expected, right?

1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?
2) Why?
3) Your evidence?
4) Did you once believe?
5) Did you change?
6) Why are you an atheist?
7) Why are you an agnostic?
8) Why you are a christian?
9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?


1) No. I believe that the offer of salvation through Jesus is a free gift for anyone who wishes to recieve it. Let it be known it is as if a blindfold was taken off your eyes after this.

2) Because of the realization of my own salvation (peace beyond all understanding, desire to know God more and more, I could go on and on)

3) Seeing first hand the life altering effects Jesus has on people. For the better I mean. This is my own evidence that I can clearly see. Have you ever noticed how you can bring up almost any topic to a group of people and they will respond with all kinds of opinions and chatter. But as soon as Jesus is mentioned people scatter ? That's a spiritual response.

4) Yes.

5) Oh yeah. I believe I mentioned the life altering thing up there somewhere.

6) N/A

7) N/A

8) I am a Christian because I accepted Jesus into my life. Once this is done I believe there is no going back. Why would one want to ?

9) Who am I to say ?


I liked the topic and had to respond. I hope I did the quote thing right.

Originally posted by OldThinker
1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?

Tricky question. I don't think it's there for that purpose, but that purpose has surely been the purpose that has been put to the most use(read my sig).

Overall, I think I would have to lean to yes.

2) Why?

Well in my experience, you don't actually need religion or a book to obtain these things, there are basic things which can be natural if not filled with fear. Jesus says to seek the truth and so on. When you are talking about things like the holy spirit and the father, these are not physical things found in a book. These are real things. Also, when people get into idol worship and don't understand, they do not follow the path.

3) Your evidence?

All of history, up until today. Directly after the church is created we enter the dark ages. Where the prophecy of Jesus comes true at their hands, and anyone who does not agree with this new religion in the name of Christ is killed. As well, the physical image of Jesus among the church doesn't meet his actual description, he is portrayed as physically beautiful as a good idol needs to be. Focus is taken from the message to the idol, and people worship the bowl instead of drinking the milk. A narrow path was made broad to appease politicians.

4) Did you once believe?

Yes, and then I rejected it because of the hypocrisy of the church. Then I looked for the truth myself, and now I do not believe, I know.

5) Did you change?

I have changed a good bit since I gained understanding.

6) Why are you an atheist?
7) Why are you an agnostic?
8) Why you are a christian?

I like to say I'm not a christian, I actually follow Jesus.

9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?

This question I find a bit odd. Like asking me if what it would look like if an ant ate his own head.

To OldThinker and TheMythLives, thanks very much for the kindness. I'm an admirer of both your posts and any time I get to know that something I've said moved someone else is moving for me.

To add to the discussion, I'd just like to say, and no offense to anyone who has disagreed, but religion is just a set of ideas. These can not be enforced without someone to enforce them. I don't see any logic in blaming or laying any effect on religion at all. This to me is about as useful as banning a book. The physical word may be gone, but the idea is not so easily erased. To put it another way, while slavery may be upheld by the law it is the mind and will of the slaver that enslaves and the mind and will of the enslaved that sets them free.

I myself am not religious, so I'm not defending religion based on my beliefs. I'm just offering something to think about since it's my opinion that too much blame is laid where it does little good. Just as I believe that in these same things too much faith can be placed.

Originally posted by gnothiseauton
[9) I think God should be exactly as He is

You cannot improve on perfection, can you?

Nice thread OT

gnothiseauton, Very good, wise point here!!!!


Appreciate the thought...

OT

Originally posted by virraszto
reply to post by OldThinker

 

I've been very into reading slave books and slave narratives. In the past couple days I've read Incidents in the life of a slave girl and Thirty Years a Slave. In quite a few of the books I've read, they mention this. They didn't want them to be able to read a bible because they would read other parts that didn't mesh with what they'd been told about slaves. Therefore, a slave owner controlled his mass of slaves with lies from the bible.

I agree with another poster who says that people are controlled by religion because they are told if they don't " accept god as their personal savior, they will go to hell eternally." That is controlling people by religion.

First paragraph...sounds like an interesting read, for sure...

Second paragraph...posters didn't ORIGINATE either quote...have you seen John 14:6? Its hard to ignore, for me atleast...it says "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

NO ONE...those hard saying freak me out...but something says I better listen...I dunno?

reply to post by jackflap



jf, aaww, the quote/response technique will come in time, don't worry...


Nice answers there...appreciate the time!

OT

reply to post by badmedia


badmedia, Always thoughtful responses from you...

Question...if you believe God is all powerful....and I think you do....could He not preserve his written message? Even with imperfect humans messing with it? Isn't that logical? Certainly He wouldn't allow 'HIS'message to be changed, if he wanted to convey, right?

OT

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
To OldThinker and TheMythLives, thanks very much for the kindness. I'm an admirer of both your posts ...

I myself am not religious...

Appreciate that...


I'm not 'religious' either....empty stuff, heck there's anew one started every month...scary!

I, do, however, love the Lord Jesus, with all my heart....see...here... for what I believe... search.live.com...


Thx!!!!

OT

Originally posted by OldThinker
I have a few questions, if you may…please no flaming, ‘civility and decorum’ expected, right?

1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?
2) Why?

It may be more accurate to characterise organised religion as an opiate to the masses. Promises of rewards on the other side as long as one is willing to endure injustice and cruelty and as long as one doesn't dare question religious authority.

Big religion is big business. Adherents are 'controlled' much as an employer 'controls' his/her employees by promises of a paycheque for enduring the trials of employment.

Originally posted by OldThinker
3) Your evidence?

Historical records, common sense and logic.

Other posters have provided specific examples.

Originally posted by OldThinker
4) Did you once believe?

I was raised in an environment of religious freedom. I have studied all of the major religions and have drawn my own conclusions.

Originally posted by OldThinker
5) Did you change?

No.

Originally posted by OldThinker
6) Why are you an atheist?
7) Why are you an agnostic?

No and no.

Originally posted by OldThinker
8) Why you are a christian?

Not a christian.

Originally posted by OldThinker
9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like?

Still working on that one.

1) Do you think faith/religion is here to control the masses?
Faith is a control mechanism in of itself and can be very dangerous if it is blind. Religion continues to control the masses throughout history resulting in many deaths, wars, prejudice, and close mindedness.

2) Why? People like power, prestige, and money!

3) Your evidence? Where do you start from twisted meanings of bible verses to young girls being denied insulin and dying. From witch burnings, to crusades, from destroying cultures, to destroying an individual's spirit. From Falwell's Claims to Swaggart's shame.

4) Did you once believe? I would say until 14-15 yes.

5) Did you change? Absolutely as the world isn't a black and white set of rules as you can see variations. What is right is wrong for some and what can be viewed as gray is debated. I learned to go by what I felt inside that came to me regarding beliefs and found parallels between most beliefs.

6) Why are you an atheist? Yes and no! I believe in a universal power that encircles all people whether or not it is sentient is another story. I've felt it many times and even once when I nearly drowned. It was very peaceful even in the extreme circumstance.

7) Why are you an agnostic? lol see 6.

8) Why you are a christian? I have not been for many years.

9) What ‘SHOULD‘ God look like/act like/be like? God is what it/he or she is or is nothing.



[edit on 4/2/2009 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by OldThinker


Thank you for sharing. Whatever we call ourselves, we largely agree on the most important level, as I see it.