Boys With Unpopular Names More Likely to Break Law

I read Freakonomics also, a cool book. It really an unnecesary study and I wonder how much money afforded these great findings.

reply to post by catamaran


This is just a guess, but since the researchers are named without an honorific or degree specified, I suspect the research was done as a master's thesis or PhD dissertation.

So, very little money went into it, especially considering that there are no real expenses involved – no special equipment, no need for personal interviews – just get your hands on a couple lists and then do the correlations

Most likely a parent that gives an unusual name is an unusual parent. They think out of the box, don't want to march to the same drummer, etc.

They don't want to be like everyone else, so they teach their kids to buck society.

There needs to be a clarification about what makes a name unpopular, and different from an unusual name.

Someone named Autumn Star is less likely to be a criminal.

Now any girls named Katrina may be used to send a message also.

Now , and I mean no offense to anyone here. But some of these names for boys are not very masculine. So it could be also that the boys get to scrapping to make up for weak name.

Life ain't easy for a boy named Sue.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Life ain't easy for a boy named Sue.

This actually brings up a good point. Although I'm sure you already know, but for the benefit of those who don't know the song take a look at the father's reasoning:

And he said: "Son, this world is rough
And if a man's gonna make it, he's gotta be tough
And I know I wouldn't be there to help ya along.
So I give ya that name and I said good-bye
I knew you'd have to get tough or die
And it's that name that helped to make you strong."

Character is not determined by what the world does to you, character is how you respond to the world.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


I have actually considered looking up successful people's names. I have noticed a trend there too. See what he common denominator is. The names are usually short and strong like Donald Trump or Bill Gates. You don't often hear of Isaac Wakisokazowski being a CEO.

I love that song.







[edit on 5-2-2009 by nixie_nox]

Let's look at the world's richest:

1. Warren Buffett
2. Carlos Slim Helu
3. William Gates III
4. Lakshmi Mittal
5. Mukesh Ambani
6. Anil Ambani
7. Ingvar Kamprad
8. KP Singh
9. Oleg Deripaska
10. Karl Albrecht
11. Li Ka-shing
12. Sheldon Adelson
13. Bernard Arnault
14. Lawrence Ellison
15. Roman Abramovich
16. Theo Albrecht
17. Liliane Bettencourt
18. Alexei Mordashov
19. Prince Alwaleed
20. Mikhail Fridman

Osman Ali Khan, Asaf Jah VII - 5th richest person ever

Cornelius Vanderbilt - 10th richest person ever

www.forbes.com...
www.mentalfloss.com...

Perhaps we should be making friends with the ones with the unpopular names. Per above, the odds they'll become a world's richest millionaire are greater than John Smith.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by nixie_nox


Edit because someone was faster than me and provided the same link. Need to work on those typing skills, it seems...






[edit on 5/2/09 by ziggystar60]

Originally posted by saint4God

Perhaps we should be making friends with the ones with the unpopular names. Per above, the odds they'll become a millionaire are greater than John Smith.

But a number of these names would be popular in their native countries, I imagine.

Alexei and Mikhail, for example, I believe are extremely common Russian names.

Originally posted by ziggystar60
You can have a look at Forbes Lists, perhaps you can find some common factor in the names for the richest people in America, or the world's billionairs?

www.forbes.com...

Pishaw, okay, we'll stay within our dinky country then.

15 Sheldon Adelson
15 Abigail Johnson
20 Forrest Mars Jr
42 Cargill MacMillan Jr
47 Rupert Murdoch
49 Blair Parry-Okedon
54 Pierre Omidyar
57 Ira Rennert
60 Patrick Soon-Shiong
62 Riley Bechtel
66 Sumner Redstone
89 Rupert Johnson Jr
97 Dirk Ziff
etc.

This is just in the top 100.

Originally posted by saint4God

Pishaw, okay, we'll stay within our dinky country then.

I'm still unconvinced

There's no way you can claim Patrick is an uncommon name; and assuming Abigail is a woman that's very common too.

Names like Blair and Forrest are pretty common in WASP society.

And you'd have to compare this to how many uncommon names you find in a random sampling of Americans. I bet it's not too far different.

[edit on 2/5/09 by americandingbat]

Originally posted by ziggystar60
David E. Kalist and Daniel Y. Lee of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania compared the first names of male juvenile delinquents to the first names of male juveniles in the population.

Yep, I'm sure David and Daniel know all about what it's like to grow up with unpopular names.

Originally posted by americandingbat
There's no way you can claim Patrick is an uncommon name;

I'm sure Patrick isn't, but try growing up as Patrick Soon-Shiong "So like, was your mom Irish and your dad Chinese or sumthin?"

Originally posted by americandingbat
and assuming Abigail is a woman that's very common too.

In 1860 you're probably right.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Names like Blair and Forrest are pretty common in WASP society.

What? Where does this society exist in America? And, I'm guessing you haven't seen Forrest Gump or The Facts of Life.

Originally posted by americandingbat
And you'd have to compare this to how many uncommon names you find in a random sampling of Americans. I bet it's not too far different.

Using Google and most famous US serial killers, I found these names:

Edward-normal
Ted-normal
David-normal
John-normal
Jeffry-normal
Gary-normal
Charles-normal
Albert-normal
Herman-not
Coral-not
Richard-normal
Andrew-normal

Out of 12 famous American serial killers, 10 had what's deemed as normal names.

- answers.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by americandingbat
There's no way you can claim Patrick is an uncommon name;

I'm sure Patrick isn't, but try growing up as Patrick Soon-Shiong "So like, was your mom Irish and your dad Chinese or sumthin?"

I'm assuming there isn't a big Chinese community where you live?

Originally posted by americandingbat
and assuming Abigail is a woman that's very common too.

In 1860 you're probably right.

I went to school with a bunch of Abby's. And I'm old, but not that old. I'm surprised actually that this one might be regional, I really thought Abby was common.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Names like Blair and Forrest are pretty common in WASP society.

What? Where does this society exist in America? And, I'm guessing you haven't seen Forrest Gump or The Facts of Life.

Connecticut. I would bet that Forrest and Blair inherited their fortunes.

Originally posted by americandingbat
And you'd have to compare this to how many uncommon names you find in a random sampling of Americans. I bet it's not too far different.

Using Google and most famous US serial killers, I found these names:

Out of 12 famous American serial killers, 10 had what's deemed as normal names.

12 famous American serial killers is not a random sampling! Look, maybe you're right. I've always dated men with strange names so who am I to question it?

But I think it's likely that in both the case of unpopular names leading to delinquency and your theory of unpopular names leading to riches, it's more likely that a certain type of parent both names a kid with an unpopular name and raises a kid in a certain way.

Originally posted by americandingbat
I'm assuming there isn't a big Chinese community where you live?

Not as much as California but more than South Carolina.

Originally posted by americandingbat
I went to school with a bunch of Abby's. And I'm old, but not that old. I'm surprised actually that this one might be regional, I really thought Abby was common.

I've only known one and have known a good number of people. No one calls her Abigail though.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Connecticut.

I'm not too far from there, never heard either name.

Originally posted by americandingbat
I would bet that Forrest and Blair inherited their fortunes.

I'm not sure what this has to do with being a criminal due to an unpopular name. Are we now qualifying it to say "poor people with unusual names tend to be criminals?" To that we could add other qualifiers such as "who don't eat broccoli" or "prefer Tom & Jerry instead of Hello Kitty". Eventually we may get some kind of profile that fits, eh?

Originally posted by americandingbat
12 famous American serial killers is not a random sampling!

Since I don't have a random sampling (P.S. No such thing exists, only a sampling we can draw assumptions from in the whole) I went with a valid point about common names of serial killers.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Look, maybe you're right. I've always dated men with strange names so who am I to question it?

Hehe. From your account, have they seem to be altered towards criminal actions because of their name?

Originally posted by americandingbat
But I think it's likely that in both the case of unpopular names leading to delinquency and your theory of unpopular names leading to riches,

Whoa hey, I never said that unpopular names lead to riches (else I'd be looking for my cut ), only showing a counterbalance to the claim that unpopular names causes lawlessness.

Originally posted by americandingbat
it's more likely that a certain type of parent both names a kid with an unpopular name and raises a kid in a certain way.

I'm more inclined to say that the raising of the child is the keystone of future behaviour and perceptions of the law. A name can be a factor when dealing with high school bullies, but this is true also or moreso with race, behaviour, religion, grades, clubs, and physical appearance. Those subjected to bullyisms are certainly not the same number who seek retaliation. I wonder how many bullies grow up to be delinquents?

[edit on 5-2-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God




If someone named me Coral I might be a serial killer too.

any serial killers for parents who give weird names?

I am not gonna say every successful name is gonna be common, but a majority of them are.

And not all positions are about wealth. I am referring to power. There are a lot of powerful positions that don't pay much. Pretty much anyone making over a mil can go in there too.

Also, Abigail has been making a big comeback.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by nixie_nox]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by americandingbat
I went to school with a bunch of Abby's. And I'm old, but not that old. I'm surprised actually that this one might be regional, I really thought Abby was common.

I've only known one and have known a good number of people. No one calls her Abigail though.

What people are called casually is often not what they would be listed as in a magazine article. Which is another reason to question whether a name has any direct effect on a person, good or bad. Even if their given name is a drag, they can choose to go by a middle name, or shorten their first name to something more acceptable.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Connecticut.

I'm not too far from there, never heard either name.

He said, she said. I grew up there and knew a couple of each.

Originally posted by americandingbat
I would bet that Forrest and Blair inherited their fortunes.

I'm not sure what this has to do with being a criminal due to an unpopular name. Are we now qualifying it to say "poor people with unusual names tend to be criminals?" To that we could add other qualifiers such as "who don't eat broccoli" or "prefer Tom & Jerry instead of Hello Kitty". Eventually we may get some kind of profile that fits, eh?

Whoa there! I'm not arguing that anyone is a criminal due to an unpopular name!

If you check my posts in this thread, I've been saying all along that while there may be a correlation, I don't believe there's a causation.

I think both your success (or lack thereof) in life and your name are reflective of your parents. Not 100% determined, but reflective enough to show up as correlations in a study of this sort.

My guess that Forrest and Blair inherited their money has more to do with the possibility that people who come from money have a head start toward the billionaire list.

Originally posted by americandingbat
12 famous American serial killers is not a random sampling!

Since I don't have a random sampling (P.S. No such thing exists, only a sampling we can draw assumptions from in the whole) I went with a valid point about common names of serial killers.

But to decide if people with unusual names are more likely to end up as billionaires, you would have to compare them to the general population. Maybe you couldn't get a completely random sampling, but there are certainly ways to get a more random sampling than that.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Look, maybe you're right. I've always dated men with strange names so who am I to question it?

Hehe. From your account, have they seem to be altered towards criminal actions because of their name?

*grin*

Okay, first, this is not what I'm arguing for. Again, I'm arguing that your name has little if any direct effect on your criminal or financial tendencies.

But, 3 of my 4 most significant relationships have been with men who have unusual names that are very close in spelling to common women's names. No Sue's, but along those lines. My experience is that it caused some resentment and anger

Originally posted by americandingbat
But I think it's likely that in both the case of unpopular names leading to delinquency and your theory of unpopular names leading to riches,

Whoa hey, I never said that unpopular names leads to riches, only showing a counterbalance to the claim that unpopular names causes lawlessness.

So have we been arguing past each other?

Originally posted by americandingbat
it's more likely that a certain type of parent both names a kid with an unpopular name and raises a kid in a certain way.

I'm more inclined to say that the raising of the child is the keystone of future behaviour and perceptions of the law. A name can be a factor when dealing with high school bullies, but this is true with race, behaviour, religion, grades, clubs, and physical appearance. Those subjected to bullyisms are certainly not the same number who seek retaliation. I wonder how many bullies grow up to be delinquents?

Exactly my point. If there is a statistical correlation between popularity of name and either delinquency or riches, I suspect it reflects more on the parents, and the child's background rather than being a causal relationship.

This article made me think of the book The Giver(I think that's the title). Where everyone sees in Black and White and everything is the same except for one person, etc. It was my favorite book as a child... I'm not one to think everything is a conspiracy, but could this article be a way of 'selling' people to name their children what everyone else is?

As a parent of a child who has a name not common to the United States(surname as well... his name is finnish). We named him for my sig other's grandfather. I'm worried he'll take flack for his name, but to me I'm hoping he'll learn about his Great-Grandfather and take pride in his name. Help him build character... if he wants to he can always go by his more traditonal middle name, of Robert named after my Dad, lol. I guess our motives were family, ya know?

We very well could be discussing past each other, americandingbat. To me that shows there are so many factors involved with criminal behaviour that name alone is not a determining factor...and appears to me a next-to-insignificant one. I like your points, my lack of responding to them is merely a nod that I think we've covered the bases on the topic.

Originally posted by MacSen191
I'm not one to think everything is a conspiracy, but could this article be a way of 'selling' people to name their children what everyone else is?

That was my first thought. I don't understand the motive behind it other than David and Daniel want more kids to be named like them. I'm all for Biblical names but I cannot for the life of me figure out why we'd insist on a naming policy for parents.

Originally posted by MacSen191
I'm worried he'll take flack for his name, but to me I'm hoping he'll learn about his Great-Grandfather and take pride in his name. Help him build character... if he wants to he can always go by his more traditonal middle name, of Robert named after my Dad, lol. I guess our motives were family, ya know?

The fact that your concerned about the effects the given name has on your son demonstrates your caring and concern that he lives the best possible life. If we had more parents who did at least this, I'm confident we'd have a much lower crime rate regardless of names.

hi ziggy!

Good article and in some ways I can relate. My first and last names are both tricky to pronounce for americans so I grew up with the teacher or substitute always butchering my name and everyone turns around and looks at me. I hated that as a kid haha!

I'm a grown man now and I have to admit I break the law everyday! 72 mph in a 60 to and from work..

Boys With Unpopular Names More Likely to Break Law

The findings could help officials " identify individuals at high risk of committing or recommitting crime, leading to more effective and targeted intervention programs," the authors conclude.

What now so your name means you have to wear an ankle bracelet just in case?

This is another one of those stupid pointless study's that prove nothing and achieve nothing.
Who the hell pays for these?
Don't you think that money could be better spent?
The real study's done on offenders at psychiatric levels have proven great findings but nothing to do with this silly name thing.
There would most certainly be more people in prison with common names, than irregular names.
Simply due to the amount of people IN prison.
Don't they realize criminals, mostly have changed there names about 15 times anyway.

David E. Kalist and Daniel Y. Lee of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania.

Oh gee, Dave and Dan.

They have boring names, were beat up at school, and now want to persecute people with cool original names.