$3,000 gift card Stimulus?

$3,000 gift card Stimulus?

w ww.marketwatch.com

Recognizing that monetary policy has gone about as far as it can, the government must turn to fiscal policy. In my opinion, the most effective way that Washington can use this tool would be to send everyone over the age of 16 a Federal Victory Card -- in essence a gift card -- with $3,000 loaded on it

(visit the link for the full news article)

This would amount to about $705 billion. That's close to what gov wants to spend.
To be effective, this must be spent within 45 days from the date of mailing. In other words, use it or you lose it. Further, funds on these individual Cards cannot be used to pay down debt or put deposits into savings accounts.
The money could be spent all at once, as part of a larger payment (car), or piecemeal. In this case, the balance would remain on the card until used up.
Retailers or service providers, in turn, must use the proceeds from these purchases to replenish supplies, pay existing workers, hire new ones, etc.
This would get lots of new money into circulation quickly and efficiently, without the need for another layer of government bureaucrats. It also would ensure people will decide what to spend their money on, not the politicians.

w ww.marketwatch.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

something like that might work so there not much chance of it happening

im pretty sure this is all part of some master plan and we will all find out what that is soon enough

i mean who in there right minds gives money to banks thats just retarded

reply to post by Bejing



It's an interesting concept. I'm still not happy about 'creating' anymore money but if they are going to do it (well, they are so we have no say in it now) then this may be a way that I could support. And not because I would get $3k to spend but because it would guarantee that the money goes to the businesses.

However, I believe that it is once again a short term solution to a very long term problem.

Still interesting though.

The age of 16... You're kidding me right? What do a bunch of runny nosed kids need with $3,000??? And what have they contributed to the system to deserve $3,000??? Yeah, selling thousands more Brittany Spear CDs and the latest fashions are really going to jump-start the economy.

No offense, OP, but posts like this truly demonstrate how little people really understand about Finance and Economics.

Originally posted by dean007
i mean who in there right minds gives money to banks thats just retarded

Obviously not a graduate of any Finance or Economics programs

Um, just to clarify... Just about every business or wage earning citizen gives money to the banks. In the real world, we call them "Deposits"!

That would only provide a short-term stimulus, wouldn't it? It does nothing to solve our long-range issues such as out-sourcing of American jobs, crumbling infrastructure, education, energy, health-care, tons of citizen debt and a crippled and ineffective government.

We will not consume our way out of the current problem, on the contrary, that is what has caused much of the turmoil. IMO.

reply to post by kozmo


We are not talking about your kids.
They could buy a computer for use in school work or college, down payment on car, healthcare (zits) or combine with mom and dad for $9,000 to use for family purchase.
Who are you? a congressman?

Wow they cannot even trust the people with cash?

After all of those hundreds of billions given to bankers, and then disappeared unaccounted for, they are afraid of how the PEOPLE will spend $3k ?!

Yeah... no... not surprised

Originally posted by Bejing
reply to post by kozmo

 

We are not talking about your kids.
They could buy a computer for use in school work or college, down payment on car, healthcare (zits) or combine with mom and dad for $9,000 to use for family purchase.
Who are you? a congressman?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhhttttttt Cuz 16 year olds are super-duper responsible with money and are likely to buy a computer for school or pay doctor's bills. Let me know when you return from your trip to Fantasy Island, K?

Who am I? Let's see... I am a college educated, white collar professional, married, father of 1, tax-payer, mortgage holder, investor and realist. I obviously have way more worldy experience than you and I have completed enough master-level credit hours of Finanace AND Economics to hold a degree in each or an advanced degree in one or the other. I am not a Congressman. Now, how about you? Let me guess... You are a 16 year old idealist. Anything else you'd like to add?

Originally posted by kozmo

Originally posted by Bejing
reply to post by kozmo

 

We are not talking about your kids.
They could buy a computer for use in school work or college, down payment on car, healthcare (zits) or combine with mom and dad for $9,000 to use for family purchase.
Who are you? a congressman?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhhhhttttttt

Cuz 16 year olds are super-duper responsible with money and are likely to buy a computer for school or pay doctor's bills.

Let me know when you return from your trip to Fantasy Island, K?

Who am I? Let's see... I am a college educated, white collar professional, married, father of 1, tax-payer, mortgage holder, investor and realist. I obviously have way more worldy experience than you and I have completed enough master-level credit hours of Finanace AND Economics to hold a degree in each or an advanced degree in one or the other. I am not a Congressman. Now, how about you? Let me guess... You are a 16 year old idealist. Anything else you'd like to add?

Kozmo do not take this as a flame.

Throwing out that you went to college does not make you smarter then anyone who did not goto college. I have everything you have but I have 1 more kid who is disabled and which made me stop being a EMT and be a stay at home father to raise her.

Again Not flaming you but that whole I have a college degree is just more of a look at me feature then anything else.

Edit to add:

I agree most 16 year old's would not spend it wisely and blow it on things that dont help anything. The limit should be raised t o18 the same age that it takes to Vote

[edit on 3-2-2009 by HolydarknessVA]

This is probably a better idea but the government never trusts the people to do the right thing and they want to control the outcome. We are just the lab rats in this experiment and rather the stimulus helps or not its beyond our control.

so kozmo tell me one way the banks are going to help anyone but themselves
at least if they gave it to the people first someone would get some use out of it before the banks end up getting it

they should have just let the banks collapse there are better models of banking to go buy
whats funny is the government is just borrowing money from one bank to give to another

there is no real intent to solve anything yet
i would guess that there still digging the hole we will all be trying to get out of for the next few years

reply to post by HolydarknessVA


It's cool. Sorry if you misunderstood. I brought up college only to support my claim that I have studied, in depth, advanced financial and economic theory under professors who have doctorates in such studies. I have had the pleasure of being exposed to theories and models that most would not come across in daily life. I in no way meant that as an affront to anyone who didn't attend college. Would you not agree that a doctor who attended med school would be a better doctor than one who learned on the street?

Certainly any intelligent person can sharpen their chops on the street. After all, it doesn't take a genius to understand that racking up more debt doesn't solve a liquidity crisis - yet, it does take more knowledge than the average 16 year old would have.

Originally posted by dean007
so kozmo tell me one way the banks are going to help anyone but themselves
at least if they gave it to the people first someone would get some use out of it before the banks end up getting it

they should have just let the banks collapse there are better models of banking to go buy
whats funny is the government is just borrowing money from one bank to give to another

there is no real intent to solve anything yet
i would guess that there still digging the hole we will all be trying to get out of for the next few years

Aha! Now you've stumbled onto something. Keep in mind... I did not attack your overall idea, only the notion that a 16 year old could constructively contribute.

Yes, the original TARP money probably would have been better served in the hands of the general public, i.e. all of the people who pay taxes in the first place. Now, you simply can't give back taxes already paid for a number of reasons not worth covering here. Next, you cannot give EVERYONE a stimulus check as a.) some never paid taxes and therefore do not deserve a rebate and b.) many who do pay taxes are extremely wealthy and would not benefit themselves or the system by receiving a rebate.

[HYPOTHETICAL] Treasury would need to figure out the range of income tax payers to provide a rebate and develop a tiered system to pay out. As an example, Let's just say single tax-payers earning less than $75K would get $2,000, married under $75K would get $4,000 plus an additional $500 for each kid. Single earning over $75K but under $250K would get $3,000, married over $75K but under $250K would get $6,000 plus an additional $750 for each child. [HYPOTHETICAL]

Here is what it would do, without restrictions... Those experiencing a liquidity crisies could use the money to pay off debt. That benefits the debtholder as it pours liquidity into the banks and reduces their on-book debt while increasing their capitol. This could be credit card debt, mortgage, home equity, student loans etc... The point is you immediately begin to disolve all of the outstanding CDOs, CDSs, derivatives and bad loans etc... that are gumming up the banking system.

Those who have enough in reserve and simply want to save or invest would benefit either the market or the banks by injecting capitol into a system which has seen a drought o new capitol as consumers have become so much more risk averse.

Those who prefer to spend it can do so which would help to deflate the over-bloated inventory of goods clogging up the supply chain which have led to massive layoffs as companies struggle to meet rapidly declining demand.

"Buy American" incentives can be layered in by offering a "Sales Tax Holiday" on any capital goods purchased that are manufactured in America.

I could go ona dn on, but I think you get the idea...

reply to post by kozmo


While I agree with you that 16 is probably to young to get the impact we are looking for unless it could be shown with facts, I disagree in how your labeling all 16 year olds in your post.

When I was 16 I started investing in my first stocks and by 20 had purchased my first house and by 26 had my first year over 6 figures. My point is not to boast but to show that not all teens are punks and would spend the money in ways they could help them in life.

On the other hand selling more Britney spears CD's and other junk still means people have more money being circulated that then goes other places in the economy. Will this fix things? I don't think so. But I also think printing more and more money along with keeping companies a float when they should be let fail will be the death of our current system. I'm also not sold on that it wasn't the plan all along anyway to crash the system.

Originally posted by kozmo
The age of 16... You're kidding me right? What do a bunch of runny nosed kids need with $3,000??? And what have they contributed to the system to deserve $3,000??? Yeah, selling thousands more Brittany Spear CDs and the latest fashions are really going to jump-start the economy.

No offense, OP, but posts like this truly demonstrate how little people really understand about Finance and Economics.

What do some balding, overweight fogies need with $3,000? Fact is no one needs it, old or young. At least the 16 year olds were born into this mess and have nothing to do with the cause. You guys are the ones who in one way or another let the economy get to where it is. On top of that, the younger generation will be paying of your 10 trillion dollar debt (around 55 trillion actually with financial obligations) and your lifestyle that was well beyond its means. Your luxury will be their poverty. The middle class manufacturing jobs and others have been outsourced over seas, and low paying service jobs will be the future for many. So who really "deserves" it? You need to control your ego a bit.

And really, at least the profits from a "Brittany Spears CD" would STAY in the American economy. The adults would probably buy something from China like they love to do. So much for knowing your stuff. All the "smart" college educated economists and the like were all proven wrong, Greenspan included. Many of the economists said that outsourcing would have basically no harmful effect on the economy, which is a load of crap. All the while people with no economics background were seeing the negative outcome and trying to get their points across. Ron Paul being a good example having no formal economic education and he has a greater understanding than about anyone. He actually was right in his predictions.



[edit on 3-2-2009 by ghaleon12]

First they must provide emergency bonuses as well as FEMA penthouses for all those poor wall street execs, investors and bankers.

Then maybe they'll have a few million to give to everyone else.

We'd be lucky to get a gift certificate for a McDonald's happy meal when all is said and done.

Originally posted by kozmo
Would you not agree that a doctor who attended med school would be a better doctor than one who learned on the street?

Hmm, kind of a tough call there as even DO's who specialize in learning homeopathy as well as traditional medicine are not well versed in beneficial and negative pressure points.

While working as security at a hospital a few years ago I was called to control a semi-unconscious man that would thrash and fail whenever moved. By applying a thumb and index finger to a pressure above the wrist, we could freely wheel him all over the hospital. I was questioned directly by a DO how I did it and why it worked.

I explained that noticing his reactions was only caused by movement and not by touch, that the pressure point for counteracting seasickness and vertigo would settle him down as it would lessen his perception of movement. After discussing a few other pressure points she decided to take a class on them as part of continuing education credit requirements.

I hold no degree in martial arts nor college curriculum. And would say nearly anything taught in college courses can also be learned from reading appropriate texts, practicing the information learned and asking questions of those more knowledgeable...which really isn't all that different from undergraduate study when you think about it except for cost and meeting arbitrary liberal arts requirements.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Ahabstar]

Originally posted by kozmo
The age of 16... You're kidding me right? What do a bunch of runny nosed kids need with $3,000??? And what have they contributed to the system to deserve $3,000??? Yeah, selling thousands more Brittany Spear CDs and the latest fashions are really going to jump-start the economy.

No offense, OP, but posts like this truly demonstrate how little people really understand about Finance and Economics.

I 3,000 percent agree!! 16 yr olds, heck even 18 yr olds have not worked enough to even put a .01 percent contribution to the tax system yet, and those of us who have been working for over 40 years deserve alot more than a pittiful 3 grand.

How about 25 grand. 50 would be nice, and 75 grand would be fantastic.


Cheers!!!!