Violent unrest rocks China as crisis hits

There could be riots in China right now and we wouldnt ever know.

reply to post by Tentickles


I know. The fact that this is even in the headlines makes you wonder just how bad it really is.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

How is that a problem? Isn't that simply capitalism?

What's the alternative? Socialism? Communism?

1) You probably do not know what capitalism or a free market really means. You just use the word because propaganda has taught you that "capitalism=good."

2) You really should expand your thinking beyond the false dichotomy that it is either what we are passing off as "capitalism" or "communism/socialism." There are as many options in between as there are free and reasoned thinkers.

I've seen a few news reports of people in China protesting. I think China is much more capable of dealing with it's problems than the US and other countries has. China, from my point of view, is ahead of the game. They did need to put the brakes on their pollution hazards. Now they have more time to reevaluate what they've done, both right and wrong.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

How is that a problem? Isn't that simply capitalism?

What's the alternative? Socialism? Communism?

1) You probably do not know what capitalism or a free market really means. You just use the word because propaganda has taught you that "capitalism=good."

2) You really should expand your thinking beyond the false dichotomy that it is either what we are passing off as "capitalism" or "communism/socialism." There are as many options in between as there are free and reasoned thinkers.

Actually if you read my original post and what I was referring to instead of looking for dichotomies where none actually are, you would see that I was defending the practice of "saving us" by use of the artifice of "benefit for them".

I said.... "What's the problem with that? That's capitalism."

Then I went on to ask, is that any better than the alternatives of socialism or communism.

Notice how I didn't say capitalism was good, nor did I present a dichotomy, only asked for alternatives from Hungis, because he seemed to think the capitalist method was problematic.

Please, do read the entirety of a post prior to painting someone with a wide brush.

reply to post by The Bald Champion

YA 2 bad, we should just export DNC and GOP... That would seal the deal Those two are models for the whole world to behold

This is coming from "The Bald Champion"? I can't believe what i just read. Most of the posts I read from you is mostly hardcore hate at Republicans. This surprised me. You are starting to see that both parties are selling us out?

Maybe i'm just interpreting it wrong?

I heard about China today. I'm sure it's probably worse than we are being told, but the unrest is everywhere. Mexico is on the brink of collapse. North Korea is threatening war with South Korea. Israel/Gaza. Riots and protests in a huge list of countries.

It's going to keep getting worse. It's funny that much of this info is kept out of the media spotlight.

They are trying to hide the information so most don't know how bad it's really getting.

So far the United States has been pretty much immune to the protests. It's coming though..

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I actually did read your whole post, including what you quoted from Karlhungis.

Your contribution was the two lines I quoted in their entirety.

Unfortunately, your most recent explanation has not clarified your point to me, if your point was not, as I assumed, that the mega rich saving themselves was merely an example of capitalism.

As to why it is a false dichotomy, that is because you offered us with an either/or choice,

ie; EITHER we use this type of capitalism OR we become socialists/communists.

There are more choices than that. What we call capitalism is not really capitalism. Not pure capitalism anyway. Our wealthy do not want a free market for one hot second. They love government intervention, government programs, government aid, government regulation. As long as that aid goes to them, the programs work towards their aims, the intervention is on their behalf, and the regulation is of us. Read the Wikipedia article on capitalism and see for your self how diverse schools of thought are within that label.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here in the US, our business leaders tend to say they prefer "free market" capitalism. If this "economic collapse" has shown anyone anything at all it should be the fallacy of "American capitalism" that wants independence from government intervention. The "free market" battle cry of American industry is nothing more than a lie. Used to justify hacking away at the rights and entitlements of the lower classes while quietly building up the rights and entitlements of the upper classes.

So while the mega rich acting purely in their own self interests COULD be defined as part of capitalism in action,

Adam Smith's attack on mercantilism and his reasoning for "the system of natural liberty" in The Wealth of Nations (1776) are usually taken as the beginning of classical political economy. Smith devised a set of concepts that remain strongly associated with capitalism today, particularly his theory of the "invisible hand" of the market, through which the pursuit of individual self-interest unintentionally produces a collective good for society.

None of the other elements of Adam Smiths model are in place. Perfect competition, perfect information, etc. Without the entire model being in place pure self interest is just pure self interest. Its not the definition of capitalism.

Originally posted by WatchNLearn
So once they take control, Americans will be introduced to the brutal socialist regime, complete with Gulags (FEMA camps), Gestapo and regional dictators. It's feudalism all over again.

If this becomes true. Oh.. my.. god.

Originally posted by munkey66I think I can hear the chinese gearing up to ask for their money back, possibly in gold.

If you're talking about the US debt to china, I don't think the US will ever pay, at least not without a little bit of manipulation.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

How is that a problem? Isn't that simply capitalism?

You have a strange definition of capitalism. The scenario I described is manipulation and exploitation. Forcing a collapse of the global economy in order to gain more power over the masses is a lot closer to terrorism than it is to capitalism.

Unfortunately, it seems to be more and more difficult to discern between the two these days.

You know how China have a 2 trillion $US reserve basket? Well, no more... or kinda.

Read this article... China is really screwed. Here

reply to post by Vitchilo


Are you sure about this?
If this is true, then you have my thanks. This is the info that I've been looking for. I think Obama and Geithner are holding to this, that sure clears up a lot of things.

The Chinese will revert to communism and wait out the economic upheaval under the picture of Chairman Mao. When things improve, they will turn back to tentative capitalism or whatever they've been running there. Dynamic social and political systems are the ticket to this new century. Turbo-charged capitalism bolted to Marxism-Leninism supported by radical Machiavelism laced with Greek philosophy taking care of things on holidays is the road to travel between 2076 and 2089. The radical cloning technology available around 2100 will bring back leaders of the past and neoconservatism will rule next one hundred years. After that, due to an enormous computing power available, computer models will run politics and economy flawlessly.

As for China having civil unrest and protests, the question is where? Don't count Hong Kong as being the same as the mainland. I haven't seen any protests or civil unrest where I live, Zhongshan. Everything is quite peaceful except for the fireworks. Its Chinese New Year. People here are going about business as usual, moneys good, plenty of jobs.

The economy is still growing at around 5%-6% though that is a drop from the 10%-11% last year. For the past six years China has been dumping the dollar at a rate of $130,000,000 a day to the population and billions onto 3rd world countries that have no choice. They are not going to be stuck as bad as some think. They are diversifying there portfolio quickly so if and when the dollar tanks they won't be caught with their pants down.

The longer the dollar is propped up the better off they are. With a 1.4 - 1.6 billion population they can sell to themselves and keep their factories running until the storm blows over. Don't think that isn't in their plans.

Any unrest is very localized and not a gauge for the rest of the country. I really feel sorry for people in the US and Europe, your in a world of hurt that we just don't have here. This is not to say that it can't happen here it could, just not yet.

One last point, people here live on cash not credit and pay for things 100% no payments. That includes their homes, cars everything. A word to the wise, you might want to start doing the same thing in the US and Europe.

everyone was taught to share by their parents but oh well... Just be happy, it's your outlook on life anyway.