Raising A Generation Of Losers - The Liberal Agenda

Why did we start saying that kids weren't allowed to win? Think about what happens today. Kids in sporting events often aren't designated the winner, it's the taking part that counts. Now of course taking part counts but if someone wins then stick a badge on their chest or give them a trophy! What is so very wrong with that?

The simple fact in life is that you won't always win, any married man will tell you that We shouldn't be teaching kids that winning isn't important. Winning is what drives people to achieve. Do you think the best people in their fields got there by just relaxing and taking part? No they worked their arses off to get there because they wanted to be the best. There are lots of doctors but only a few at the top of their field.

This all leads back to the extreme liberals. They got so upset when their child cried about not winning that instead of encouraging their kids to train, study, try harder they got a hold of solicitors and started suing people. After a while schools stopped keeping score during games, patted everyone on the back and now we have a generation of children growing up thinking they don't need to try their best to be the best.

The kids who really did try their hardest are also being drowned in mediocrity. Why should they bother when everyone is treated the same? Isn't acclaim what drives great people? Yes many are driven by discovery and curiosity, but in the end the acclaim is what drives them again and again. Once you have had a taste of it you want more and you try harder. If everyone is treated the same way then whats the point in trying?

It really seems to be the extreme liberal parents who are behind it all. They can't stand their child not being number one and so they try and make everyone the same. I wonder if it's really because they are upset to see their child sad, or if it's because they can't stand not having the "best" child. Liberal ego, it'll be the end of us all.

Yes, and those dastardly liberals that implemented the "No Child Left Behind" program should be taken out and shot.

Liberals aren't the only ones that have destroyed the children of America. Our trusty conservatives have done their fair share as well.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
Yes, and those dastardly liberals that implemented the "No Child Left Behind" program should be taken out and shot.

Good point. These parents think that their child has the ability to become an academic, but the sad reality is that not everyone has the brain to become a lawyer, teacher, engineer, scientist. Some don't have the ability to become the best athlete in their sport. Some will be best suited to other things and others will fail in school and end up mopping floors.

It's not nice, it's not good, but it is reality. These programs that treat all children as if they are absolutely equal in their mental capacity are just holding back the more intelligent and harder working kids.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


It still comes back to lazy parenting. Yay if your kid gets a trophy for participating, but the parent should help their child succeed if he or she is genuinely talented in a sport. Who cares if Little Johnny the clutz gets a trophy too, if your kid IS talented, help them get better. Don't rely on your local T-Ball coach to do all of the teaching / pushing of your kids, take an active roll. If he or she isn't, then yes... at least they participated.

The same applies to education. The public school system isn't doing our children any favors. No child gets ahead. You have to help keep your kids driven outside of school. If the minimum is what you want for your child, then by all means let the public schools do all of the work for you. If you want them to succeed, you are going to have to play a part in their success.

I am not advocating the "Toddler Pageant Queen" type of insanity here. I am just suggesting that parents take a more active roll in helping their children succeed in life. My parents were pretty hands off and that is something that I really wish was different with my upbringing.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
It still comes back to lazy parenting. Yay if your kid gets a trophy for participating, but the parent should help their child succeed if he or she is genuinely talented in a sport. Who cares if Little Johnny the clutz gets a trophy too, if your kid IS talented, help them get better. Don't rely on your local T-Ball coach to do all of the teaching / pushing of your kids, take an active roll. If he or she isn't, then yes... at least they participated.

Yes and no. Whilst i agree it comes down largely to lazy parenting i think there is a larger issue here. Take two children, one is simply brilliant at football (soccer) the other is absolutely awful. They play a game, no score is kept and at the end all the children are given a little token trophy or button. They're all hugged and congratulated and told they're really great.

What incentive does a child have to be the best now? What incentive does a child have to try? I can tell you as a kid i played football, i used to try my hardest because i wanted the "man of the match" award. I got it a couple of times and the feeling was great and spurred me on to try even harder.

Without this adulation kids have no drive. This early molding of their mind is going to show greatly later in life.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


This is not a liberal-conservative issue, this touches down to the parents themselves and the schools. I really get the feeling you added "liberal" to your rant as a partisan snipe. Has nothing to do with kids and "winning". To make it worse your pulling this whole "liberal fault" out of no where.

Honestly now.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by southern_Guardian]

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

This is not a liberal-conservative issue, this touches down to the parents themselves and the schools. I really get the feeling you added "liberal" to your rant as a partisan snipe. Has nothing to do with kids and "winning". To make it worse your pulling this whole "liberal fault" out of no where.

Honestly now.

Trying to make out this is a conservative attacking liberals? Well i have voted liberal in my life so this doesn't exactly work. I used the liberal label because it tends to be liberals behind this sort of thinking. It tends to be liberals behind heavy political correctness and other such things.

I didn't arbitrarily add liberal to this, i did it because it seems to be true.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

This is not a liberal-conservative issue, this touches down to the parents themselves and the schools. I really get the feeling you added "liberal" to your rant as a partisan snipe. Has nothing to do with kids and "winning". To make it worse your pulling this whole "liberal fault" out of no where.

Honestly now.

Trying to make out this is a conservative attacking liberals? Well i have voted liberal in my life so this doesn't exactly work. I used the liberal label because it tends to be liberals behind this sort of thinking. It tends to be liberals behind heavy political correctness and other such things.

I didn't arbitrarily add liberal to this, i did it because it seems to be true.

I think the liberal remark tossed you right off the trail.

You are applying generalities and they don't work to describe such a nuanced existence. The true motivator in sucess is hardly external now is it?

Can you drag a dead horse across a finish line?

Of corse!

Will you be the winner in the race?

The point is people succeed because they are driven, perseverant and motivated.

Or they are driven out of passion which seems to infect the true maters.

I'm my case I spent my childhood with in both a conservative household and a extremely liberal household.

I tell you neither could convince me to do what was wanted.

REGARDLESS I was so driven and passionate, that I achieved what I wanted to do.

Everyday practicing in seclusion, without the need for anything that what was NOT inherent in me.

I think you will find offspring of conservatives and liberals that range the gambit of success.

Who was more successful, EINSTEIN OR BEETHOVEN?

While Einstein's mind shaped the corse of history

We can still HEAR BEETHOVENS mind at work all these years later.
HIS music is literally flying in space!







[edit on 2-2-2009 by The Bald Champion]

reply to post by The Bald Champion


I'm not saying Einstein was any more accomplished than Beethoven and i never would. They were both masters of their fields.

What i am saying is that by treating children in a way that never gives them positive feedback for good things and negative feedback for bad things we are raising a society with no clear direction. Afterall why should they bother trying when they get plenty of praise as it is? Can you imagine what happens when these kids hit the real world, where they will be judged on their performance. Why isn't it correct to start this early, like it used to be.

Why is it so awful to award man of the match trophies? Distinction trophies or other awards for excellence instead of treating every kid the same, as if they're all big achievers.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by The Bald Champion

 

I'm not saying Einstein was any more accomplished than Beethoven and i never would. They were both masters of their fields.

What i am saying is that by treating children in a way that never gives them positive feedback for good things and negative feedback for bad things we are raising a society with no clear direction. Afterall why should they bother trying when they get plenty of praise as it is? Can you imagine what happens when these kids hit the real world, where they will be judged on their performance. Why isn't it correct to start this early, like it used to be.

Why is it so awful to award man of the match trophies? Distinction trophies or other awards for excellence instead of treating every kid the same, as if they're all big achievers.

I get what your throwing down here.
I think its fine to start this early, I guess the hard part would be to change back to the previous ways.

For me the accolades would be of little satisfaction... My genuine satisfaction would be in the task of performing the awarded action.

In this I am rather unbiased.

I suppose the person who had the stronger feeling should prevail in the trophy argument.

I do agree that awarding mediocrity is NOT required, even detrimental - in my style of liberalism. I would only protest the award if it were egregiously large. Unless the rules stated such as an outcome.

award the achiever

but do not cripple the underachiever with disadvantage.

IN Mexico they once used to award life to the winners of a few ancient contests.

Think about that kind of motivation...

ARE you an AMERICAN?

The reason I ask is that your position seems is interesting and "foreign" to my typical
Lib/Con discussions.




are you saying RAISING A GENERATION OF LOSERS BECAUSE THEY WERE TOLD THEY WERE WINNERS TO MUCH?




[edit on 2-2-2009 by The Bald Champion]

[edit on 2-2-2009 by The Bald Champion]

reply to post by The Bald Champion


Oh and I do not think the proper way to look at this is AGENDA.

Maybe consequence - however I don't thing the motivating factor is to consciously create losers.

Consequence has my vote

reply to post by The Bald Champion


I'm not an American no, I'm English however the ideas that were once American, like the non scoring of games is now infecting the UK. The problem is as stated. If all children are told they're great even when they play awfully then their drive to succeed will be reduced. Many people are driven to the top of their game by the accolades they receive.

This doesn't mean that the best player, or top academic achiever in lower schools needs trumpets and streamers However the basic awards have always seemed to work well. Small trophies, merits, that kind of thing. Equally it isn't right to hamstring an underachiever, i'm just saying they shouldn't be rewarded for not achieving in the same way as the achiever.

The language of your thread title is divisive and can be construed as offensive. Although I consider myself neither a liberal or a conservative, I notice that the liberal arguments do often tend to align with my own views. This "everyone is a winner" mentality, however, is not one of those areas.

You are right in that competition drives improvement, and the natural consequence of competition is that one party succeeds while the other fails. This drives growth, and it applies on the personal level every bit as much as it applies to the financial, natural, or other such arenas of competition.

Teaching children that there are no winners and losers only breeds mediocrity, error, and halfheartedness - which can have serious repercussions on the way that child will preform when they're older. Or at least, it'll be a hell of a system shock when they're thrown into the real world. No, rather I believe it is far more important to teach children how to be good winners, as well as good losers. Learn to see mistakes and losses as a way to identify flaws their performance and work to rectify them. Teach them humility in winning, because there will always be someone out there better than them, or that have a unique advantage. Nobody is a top performer at everything, so even with competition, we're still all working together at bettering ourselves. Competition is only a mechanism for that betterment.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by The Bald Champion

 

I'm not an American no, I'm English however the ideas that were once American, like the non scoring of games is now infecting the UK. The problem is as stated. If all children are told they're great even when they play awfully then their drive to succeed will be reduced. Many people are driven to the top of their game by the accolades they receive.

This doesn't mean that the best player, or top academic achiever in lower schools needs trumpets and streamers

However the basic awards have always seemed to work well. Small trophies, merits, that kind of thing. Equally it isn't right to hamstring an underachiever, i'm just saying they shouldn't be rewarded for not achieving in the same way as the achiever.

NO WONDER your band of conservative makes sense to me

In the USA the motivator in American conservative ideology is consequence
will in your views it seems to be reward, or maybe not...

Regardless my brand of extreme AMERICAN LIBERALISM I would be in favor of providing the rewards for performance as long as it did not actually hurt the losers.

I side with keeping the tradition, in that it keeps the sport to standard.

To let the bright shine is great!

But if you cook all the losers... Well thats where my liberalness kicks in.




I wish I was this compatible with AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES.

Very different - between the two countries.

The people who would pull this in AMERICA would be spoilt idiots - hell, you'd get a lot of liberals in California on your side. If the kids aren't starving from it, do it.

Our countries should sponsor ideology swaps...

you could replace a couple of Tennessee conservatives here and add some class to the whole joint.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
Our trusty conservatives have done their fair share as well.

Sorry, but No Child Left Behind is not a Conservative policy.

It's a Bush policy.

Big difference.

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

NO WONDER your band of conservative makes sense to me

To write me off as conservative is inaccurate. I'm very middle of the road, conservative with some stuff and liberal with other stuff. This treating of children as all being winners however is going to lead to some rather bad problems.

Take a look at those terrible talent shows on TV. I don't watch them but occasionally i've been round someones house and they have it on. Some of the people are utterly deluded and there is a great video on youtube with some girl in a white fairy like dress trying to sing. She sings like a cat that is having a colonoscopy and yet her parents tell her she's got the voice of an angel. Someone needed to tell her earlier that she was awful because the reality hit her like a sledge hammer.

What happens when these people grow up and have to work? What happens when their boss tells them that they've messed something up and gives them a proper dressing down? will they get upset and cry, deny they're in the wrong and probably get fired, or even get violent as they just can't accept it? Will it have a very large impact on their future and maybe lead to depression as they realise they aren't great at everything?

As you said, teaching children to be humble winners and good natured losers is all part of growing up and learning and it's something that teaches you how to get on with others. This policy really seems to be a liberal policy and it will do damage in future.

It's quite pathetic that to this day we are still blaming one group or another for the state of this country, when truly it is a cult of culture that has caused the homoginization of our youth, the dumbing down of our society, and the overall indoctrination of weakness that has overtaken our people.

It isnt one group or the other, all are guilty.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I started writing my response by telling you that i didn't think the problem was brought about solely by liberals, but the more I think about it, the more i tend to agree with you. I mean, that's not to say that republican parents are up in arms about the issue, but i think it was probably moreso by liberal school administrators than anything else.

In any event, it has got to stop. It seems like parents have left it up to the school system to teach their kids confidence, and that's completely wrong. Schools shouldn't be leading the way in teaching your child how to be responsible, which God to believe in, or how to be confident in themselves.

Since we're on the subject, if schools are going to take over teaching all the really important things to our kids (like how to think, not what to think), then why aren't we seeing any classes about how to balance a damned check book? That'd be nice.

Ok just to cover this point, some people here seem to think this is my attempt at blaming liberals for everything, the truth is far from this however. Conservatives and liberals have both done damage to the country i live in. I only mention liberals in this issue because it seems that it is mostly liberals suggesting and supporting the above mentioned policies.

Originally posted by The Cyfre
Since we're on the subject, if schools are going to take over teaching all the really important things to our kids (like how to think, not what to think), then why aren't we seeing any classes about how to balance a damned check book? That'd be nice.

We actually have these in the UK, they're called "Skills for life" classes. Not all schools have them and they're usually optional.