If the dollar collapses do we get out of student loans ?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I'm not talking about a legal definition of the word today. I said usury is historically immoral and criminal. This means charging ANY interest.



Here's why:

Each person in our world has a slice of the pie of available money that exists... some have a little, some have a lot. If compound interest is permitted, then whoever has the largest pile of money sitting in the bank collecting interest will be increasing their wealth faster than anyone else. Their huge pile of cash allows them to gather money faster than all their competition.

For example, if you have a million dollars at 5% interest, you have an automatic "income" of $50,000 per year. Great, you say.

A billionaire, however, has an income of $50 million dollars a year. That's a million dollars a week for doing nothing. And the more they get, the faster they get it.

If you follow the flow of money in such a scenario, you'll quickly see that whoever has the most money earning the most interest eventually eats up all the money left in the world, until everyone else ends up with nothing but debt to this person.

I'll say that again: Compound interest lets 1 "winner" get everything, while everyone else ends up with nothing but debt to this person. Understanding this fact brings up questions of morality. Is it ethical to let wealthy people prosper so much simply because they have so much to prosper with? Where do we go once the rich own everything? Is this the economic world we want to live in?

The rich will own it all... it is a mathematical certainty. The only thing missing from making this obvious to everyone is time. Either we permit compound interest to exist, or we permit 1 person to own us all. The choice is ours.

You know how the saying goes... "The rich get richer." This is why.





[edit on 2-2-2009 by username371]

reply to post by username371



Couldn't have said it better. Jesus' number one issue with the Temple was the practice of usury, which the Bible, the Koran and many other holy texts have written against. Interest is, in fact, immoral.

www.payscale.com...=Pediatrician,_General/Salary

3k a year is nothing compared to the salary of a pediatrician. No complaining about med school loans.

I totally resent having to pay more than $100 every time I see a doctor,. If the dollar collapses will your wife treat everybody for free.

If I buy a house and the dollar collapses should the bank let me keep the house without paying?

By the way if the dollar "collapses" your wife would be able to pay off the loan from the income of one fifteen minute visit.

But the short answer really is that YOU have chosen to pay off the loan over a 30 year period. If you decided to pay it off over a 10 yr period the interest would be way lower.

It's pretty nasty expecting the rest of America to have to deal with your loan while you move off to Canada or Uzbhekistan.

reply to post by admriker444


Sign me up too! I have been paying on student loans for about 20years and still can not pay them off. Every time I get to a break even point, I get laid off or something happens that insurance wont pay for and I lose my life savings (divorce) and can not pay off the loans. I'm an Electrical Engineer who is once again out of work. This economy is so bad that if given a choice, I would get a loan from the government and start a small business that employed less than 10 people. I'm not greedy, just want to live without eating Ramen Noodles or Rice all the time. I'm not into anything that costs a lot of money for entertainment, I don't own a TV, and drive an economical car. I just feel shorted when I am working and the first four months of the year are spent working for taxes. Being single, I get hit hard with taxes. I have nothing of real property and nothing to write off. The government has effectively killed the hard working class. I for one have nothing more to give.

reply to post by admriker444


So the Welfare mentality has reached all the way to the upper levels. I knew that but this helps to confirm.

The Government guarantee means that if you don't pay, they take money from taxpayers who could never afford to go to Medical School to pay your wife's debt for you.

If you can afford those payment and a house payment you are already in the privileged class. Your student loan payment is more than most make so you must make a very large salary.

I'd heard of MD's skipping the country to get out of paying. Pretty sad. I would not trust one of them to be my MD.

If your of the opinion the government should bail you out you are the problem.

Originally posted by admriker444
Oh ever read the Constitution by the way ? Your arguments are all moot as the foundation upon which you defend is ILLEGAL. Only congress shall print money and it must be backed by gold.

What's a term for a logical fallacy, which attempts to invalidate the subject of the statement, based on the question of the legitimacy of the addressed institution? Appeals to authority are irrelevant.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by cognoscente]

I have only read this page and the first page, so forgive me if I repeat what others have said.

Sell your house, live in an apt and pay off your student loan more quickly and then you won't have to pay so much in interest. Did you finance your home for 30 years or 15 years? You pay back a whole lot more money on the 30 year mortgage due to the number of years you are allowed to repay

I am sorry, but, you are a big crybaby. You borrowed the money, you have to repay it. We have done the same and there has NEVER been a thought of not repaying the money. At least she does make enough to pay for the loan and mortgage. Maybe you could work a second job, make more money and pay it off faster

What ever happened to people taking responsibility for their debt? For paying what they owe vs pulling up and moving to Canada. I hope the US Government can revoke the medical license for behavior like that.

You really ought to be ashamed. I pay my medical bills even to the doctors that I think ought to have their licenses revoked due to their poor medical care given.

reply to post by projectvxn

Interest is, in fact, immoral.

OK, great. Would you be willing to lend me $10,000 interest free? I'll pay you back whenever I get around to it. If you need a specific time frame, I'll pay you back in 15 years.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Yes I would. A legally binding program would be efficient enough to guarantee you pay back. If you don't it's theft and you go to jail. I can make my profit from processing fees.

reply to post by projectvxn


I'd like to borrow $250 000 from you - I am willing to sign every document you want. Interest free over 30 years that would be the equivalent of about $60 000 dollars that you will get back ( though it will still be called $250 000) Or if America becomes the next Zimbabwe - I will pay you back with a 10 million dollar note and tell you to keep the change because you can only buy a loaf of bread with it.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

reply to post by Mynaeris


And it is for this reason that you need sound monetary policy. Meaning money based on hard valued assets like gold.

Originally posted by projectvxn

Yes I would. A legally binding program would be efficient enough to guarantee you pay back. If you don't it's theft and you go to jail. I can make my profit from processing fees.

If you think Jesus would approve any more of making a profit off processing fees rather than interest, you are misunderstanding WHY usury was considered immoral.

It wasnt the specifics of HOW you made a profit, it was THAT you made a profit from your brother when he was in need and you could afford to help him.

Its all that "treating others as yourself" stuff that Jesus was so big on and modern Christians tend to overlook whenever it is convenient.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by projectvxn

 

I'd like to borrow $250 000 from you - I am willing to sign every document you want. Interest free over 30 years that would be the equivalent of about $60 000 dollars that you will get back ( though it will still be called $250 000) Or if America becomes the next Zimbabwe - I will pay you back with a 10 million dollar note and tell you to keep the change because you can only buy a loaf of bread with it.

[edit on 2-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

 

Yes I would. A legally binding program would be efficient enough to guarantee you pay back. If you don't it's theft and you go to jail. I can make my profit from processing fees.

I will gladly loan you that $250,000 interest free, Mynaeris. However, my processing fee is $350,000 up front. Pay me back the $250,000 loan amount whenever, that doesn't really matter that much.

In other words, I am not a Jew nor am I a Muslim. Therefore, I have no moral problems with usury. (ironic that usury is illegal in the Old Testament, yet most of our banking industry is controlled by people of Jewish ancestry.) I figure that as long as nobody is twisting your arm and forcing you to sign contracts and accept thousands of dollars under high interest rates, it's pretty much the borrower's responsibillity to accept whatever interest rate was agreed upon between them and the lender, regardless of future changes of heart. I do not, however, believe in floating interest rates. Those are predatory and only a fool would agree to them... this includes the millions of fools who hold credit cards whose rates change with the wind. Again, however, as long as the law allows them it's the idiot who agreed to the term's fault entirely.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I'm a Christian, yet I've always been highly amused at the "treat others as you would have yourself treated" victim card. I expect NOTHING from anyone not living under my roof. If I was a moron and did something sincerely dumb in the presence of another, I'd expect to be laughed at or taken advantage of. In fact, I HOPE that's exactly what would happen because that's exactly what I'd deserve to have happen. It's called emotional and educational natural selection.

I have my Bachelors degree. I paid for it using the GI Bill and the balance from school loans. I have paid off both loans, and I have a good paying job and a degree that nobody can take away.

I would love to go back and get my Master's Degree. I can't afford it. I have bills, and a family to take care of. Not to mention, a Master's program is VERY expensive, and I know it would be difficult to pay back.

Are you following me here? Its sure easier to take a loan than it is to pay back. I'm sorry it doesn't seem like such a great deal in retrospect, but then again, who do you think should pay that money back? Who should be responsible?

Even if the dollar collapses, a new form of money will come into use and debts will be converted.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Well, then technically, you are not a Christian. Because that was the teaching of Jesus, the Christ.

Not saying you are wrong for whatever faith you choose to practice, just saying that if you do not follow the teachings of Jesus, you are not really a Christian in the defining sense of the word. You are someone who has another faith, who has adopted the term.

Waaaaaa I'm Irresponsible. I don't want to pay despite that I took the loan. Someone else please pay it for me. Waaaa I was too stupid to actually READ the loan. Waaaaaaa I want life to be easy. Mommy I need you.


Irresponsible people suck, plane and simple. If it wasn't for irresponsible people this nation would not be in such a mess. Suck it up and be a Man. I certainly don't want to pay for your stupidity and that is what is happening. The Tax Payers are paying for idiots like the OP who bought something they could not afford. Whether it is a house, a car, or a loan why should I and everyone else have to pay for their lifestyle. I NEVER take out a loan that I can not pay back in short order. I save my pennies and pay in Cash whenever possible. I work damn hard like an honest man and can't stand those who feel entitled to mooching off of the rest of us.

I know, Join the military and EARN your student loan. Self centered and irresponsible waste of space.

Sorry for the rant folks, but I was taught to stand on my own two feet and that only a loser would put his hand out when they are healthy and whole. This guy talks about running away from his responsibility and going to Canada. Leaving you and me with his debt. Nice. Real nice.

just wondering.......?

What about if they....say...made loans interest free for certain things?

Not everything, but for education (for the topic) and say 1 house per person? (any additional realestate it not).

How would people feel about that?

Seems' the goverment has the $ why not make a bank for the people.

Just wondering or is that like being communist?

me

Is it theft when hospital corporations buy million dollar homes for doctors then say their income is 140.000.00 per year? No they would not try to get out of income tax, live in a luxury home and have the hosptial corp pay for it? See what a lot of people don't realize is that high ranking CEO's and doctors......get a lot of stuff paid for but not with cash. I have seen Cars, houses, stock and local bonds given essentially to doctors without the public knowing it. This is NOT discussed openly. I am not saying get out of your loans....I am saying most medical corporations pay for doctors to come and work and peds is a high risk needed area. I am sure you can find a corporation to assume your debts, you sign the paper and whaaaaallaaaaaaaaaaa it is paid off. I am not sure of the reality of what you discuss.....because in reality, doctors who are thru residency make a lot of money. It is nothing to bill Medicare for millions of dollars....doctors have to be businessmen. Find a deal, have some corp pay off the stupid hoop jump loans......Sounds like someone is still in residency and has no money and someone else wanted money NOW. It takes years to get thru the process..10 years before docs are profitable. However they make up for their slow start in leaps and bounds by working for the corporations that pay them moderate salaries(taxable) and GIVE them other stuff to keep them happy and to hide the money. No further details.....but I personally know this occurs.The money is hidden. period.
Be patient and your wife will be Loaded one day...........pay your loans. They are no big deal, really..........an investment that is going to pay hugh dividends but it takes years. Oh yea the tail on peds cases is to the age of 18 and in some cases 21 years old.......get a lot of malpractice, a good lawyer and a GREAT CPA. Obama will try to take your blood, sweat and MONEY!