should the cannabis industry be supported in our current global downturn

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by cooler

Originally posted by stevegmu
Would legalizing marijuana and other drugs make them free? Is marijuana free in California, where it is essentially legal? The biggest problem I have with drugs is that addicts turn to crime to feed their habits. Making marijuana easier to get would simply increase property and other crimes.
I'm sure many will say making marijuana legal would decrease the price. Such is not the case, however, in California, where marijuana at cannabis clubs sells at street prices.

you have pointed out a common myth here, yes some crime is commited by some cannabis users as it is by alcahole drinkers, & many various kinds of people. the trueth about crime in a lot of countrys is that poverty is the biggest cuase of crime, & there is a lot of crime commited out of greed too, lets not forget the bernie madofs of this world, so cannabis in my opinion will not increase crime, but may even reduce crime.
& if cannabis were to be used in society then of coarse its not going to be free, regulation of cannabis products means it can be controled & taxed becoming a source of revenue.
you also speak of drug addicts, cannabis is not addictive compared to things like heroin, coc aine, valium, where the user is unable to function in every day life without regular doses, although cannabis may become habit forming, the cannabis user can still function normally in every day life without cannabis.

The problem I have is that it wouldn't be free. Were marijuana legal and readily available, I imagine it would be somewhat expensive, and many who smoke it would resort to crime to buy it- just as many do to procure other drugs.
Sure people could grow it, but I can't imagine many would go through the trouble of doing so- just as few grow their own tobacco, or brew/distill alcohol.
From what I understand, marijuana is psychologically addictive. I'm sure many regular marijuana smokers have said they can quit any time they want, but after years of regular use, I'm sure many can not.

if cannabis were available on a recreational level i would expect it to be various prices, eg medical cannabis may be cheaper or free via a doctors script, in a cannabis cafe more expensive you pay extra to be seated in comfy atmosphere, slightly cheaper if it was a take out, you get my drift ?,
people who end up resorting to crime will do so weather its cannabis, alcahole or the latest fashon, posibly driven to take short sighted action by poverty or greed. people on harder drugs may be in physical distress & dependant on a drug to feel normal, if they do not get a dose of that hard drug they may take extreme actions to get a dose, cannabis does not do this to people. you suggest cannabis is psychologically addictive the same can be said about tea & coffee, sugar.
i have been useing cannabis for some time becuase of my illness, & i can & often do stop taking cannabis when it suits me, as a result of not useing cannabis i may drink more tea or coffee as a result.
you seem to be trying very hard to paint cannabis as a negative thing for society, which in reality it is not.
cannabis has been successfully used by several societys for several thousand years as a positive material in industry & recreational use, with no apparent negative side effects, its only been over the last 100 or so years that cannabis has become the unfortunate scapegoat for fear mongers & the ulterior motives of a certain buisness class.
i dare you to remove sugar from your diet, & come back in 2 weeks & tell us how you feel about addictive drugs ?.

Actually, I'm all for legalizing drugs- all of them- as long as they are free, or nearly free, as long as there are severe punishments for anyone doing them in public/driving/walking down the street high, and under the condition that anyone committing any crime while high be charged with a felony, and sentenced to work camps. The crime associated with drugs are what I have a problem with. The two inevitably go hand in hand, and always will- regardless of legality.

Originally posted by stevegmu
The crime associated with drugs are what I have a problem with. The two inevitably go hand in hand, and always will- regardless of legality.

Wow. Just wow.

"Hi everybody, I have no idea what I'm talking about."

Originally posted by stevegmu
Actually, I'm all for legalizing drugs- all of them- as long as they are free, or nearly free, as long as there are severe punishments for anyone doing them in public/driving/walking down the street high, and under the condition that anyone committing any crime while high be charged with a felony, and sentenced to work camps. The crime associated with drugs are what I have a problem with. The two inevitably go hand in hand, and always will- regardless of legality.

i`m not so sure about all drugs being legal becuase it will lead to many people being tared with the same brush, this would be iresponsible.
& major pharma compenys would not back this idea, as it goes against regulation & revenue.
also trying to enforce your idea is not very realistic.
the crime you assume goes hand in hand with drugs, is misleading, in the uk every weekend 30% of all crime & much of it is violent crime is a direct result of binge drinking, so alcahole is infact the most likley cuase of weekly crime, followed by poverty wich is more often linked to thefts & breakins.
cannabis crime is more often associated with young people getting stopped with a small personal amount on them, or some times a propertie is searched for a grow opperation. the drug crime you suggest is more likley harder addictive drugs like heroin, coc aine, speed,
& less likley to be cannabis.
to try & blame just one part of society with crime is misleading & incorrect.
crime goes up every full moon, the police have been aware of this for some time now. you going to say send the moon to a work camp for being associated with crime ?

in our current downturn or should i now call it nosedive ?, every day i see a few countrys move a little closer to protectionism, if this trend continues wich its going to for a while yet, protectionism will be the straw that breaks the camels back !!, if or maybe when this happens, the 1930`s crash may end up looking quite mild, as there is now over 6 billion people on the planet.
i think in times of extreme turmoil & famin, people realy need to be thinking about a plan b & even a plan c, on a basics level thats food & some thing to trade. its in times of upheaval like this, that cannabis as an industry should be realy looked at. just about any one can grow it as a local trading material.
i heard it mentioned yesterday, that to realy sort things out, a bail out of 1000 trillion dollars was needed !!!!!
& so far bailouts have made no difference to the economic nosedive, so currently the most likley outcome would be protectionism, as soon as 2 or 3 countrys do this, the global export/import trade may collapse & take who knows what with it ?.
if & for now it is if, this happens, it will be the black market that takes over as a matter of ergency, that will mean any thing goes all drugs & the smuggleing of any thing & every thing, & with a serious posible level of violence not seen since the second world war.
so ide suggest people think about supporting a local industry like cannabis.

reply to post by cooler


Marijuana is perfectly harmless in essence.

Eating a whopper from Burger King is worst then smoking an ounce of trees.


About 65% of Inmates in American Prisons are Non-Violent drug offenders about 80-85% of these inmates are marijuana related charges.

Now tell me would you rather have non violent pot heads in jail...Or rapists, thief's, murderers etc...

-Psycho

Originally posted by Psychonaughty
reply to post by cooler

 

Marijuana is perfectly harmless in essence.

Eating a whopper from Burger King is worst then smoking an ounce of trees.


About 65% of Inmates in American Prisons are Non-Violent drug offenders about 80-85% of these inmates are marijuana related charges.

Now tell me would you rather have non violent pot heads in jail...Or rapists, thief's, murderers etc...

-Psycho

eating cannabis is harmless, the act of putting any type of smoke into the lungs is harmfull.
whoppers are just not healthy.
yes i agree many cannabis users in prisons are there for small amounts of cannabis & should not be inprisoned for personal use,
so no i am not going to tell you that ide rather see cannabis users in prisons instead of rapists, thiefs & murderers.
for most of this thread i have been suggesting that cannabis should be used in industry wich includes the recreational use of cannabis, but recreational use of cannabis should be regulated, like the use of growing permits, cannabis being available from pharmacys, & some thing like a cafe culture similar to amsterdam, where cannabis can be used in a safe environment, wich also offers quality control. if cannabis were regulated in some way like this it would simply mean that cannabis is available to people & at the same time allow it to be taxed & used as a source of revenue.
& that several industrys would also be able to use it. a win win situation for every one.

reply to post by Psychonaughty
Drinking to much water can kill you

Originally posted by stevegmu
Actually, I'm all for legalizing drugs- all of them- as long as they are free

Steve, this plant we are talking about, is free. You did know that, didn't you -That we are talking about a flowering/fruiting plant here? That it costs nothing to bury a seed in the ground and to tend it?

Perhaps like many Americans you have little connection with the soil anymore? Perhaps you do not even have a little garden or maybe even a single fern in your home?

Apples, as one kind of fruit, are free to me and people like Johnny Appleseed. It might seem to you that I wouldn't be able to grow an appletree, but I am certain that I could. And if I did, it wouldn't threaten the apple farmer one bit. See, he loves apples too.

This thing you call "drugs" are actually things other than cannabis. These things are: Viagra, Lipitor, Celebrex, MDMA, etc. The 'fruit' (if you will) we call pills are actuallycultivated by pharmers, and their fields are diverse and span the globe. Their goal is noble, and I agree with your idea that they should provide all their wares for free or next to free, like one might imagine a plant, or a weed, is free, and of no cost. Problem is this: Pill Pharmer protects his turf with intellectual force and is jealous like none other.

The crime associated with drugs are what I have a problem with. The two inevitably go hand in hand, and always will- regardless of legality.

Regardless of legality? Please, tell us more.

What you fail to grasp(?) is that cannabis costs money for even grandma who has hip pain BECAUSE of the judge and the cop and the PO and the bondsmen, etc. It is they who support their own market, just as during prohibition era. If the prohibitive coercive factors are removed, there is no cost. Like we have today with booze: Massive companies can addict people to it and that's cool but it's also cool to brew your own and be a ragin drunker millionaire on microbrews. Prohibitive measures = Al Capone and crime.

Duh.

Anyway the point in my opinion is this: Cannabis is most valuable for its calmative affects. My question to everyone reading, is this: What price can you put on pain relief or calming the Napoleans and Hitlers of the world? Answer carefully if you deny others the relief of their pains or a general calming of the world.

Most of the time, you do not know what thing has caused pain to your fellow human, but we have a world here which ignores that pain unless relief is provided by one certain type of pharmer.

Shall we continue that paradigm? I say: I will never deny another to relieve their pain if they choose to do so. I will never hide behind some corporate veil or power structure and do that. If my fellow human is in pain, I will not prevent them relief. I will not promote a world of workers lining up for pills as in Brave New World. Will you?

We're not talking about heroin here, mind you. We know who has that market cornered already, right? The pharmer/druggist sells the clean derivative product of many plants and flowers from all over the world.


[edit on 12-2-2009 by smallpeeps]

reply to post by cooler


Also I'm not just for cannibas the real cash cow is the hemp.

Some facts:

-1 acre of Hemp is equal to 4 acres of tree in cheaper stronger paper.
a. takes 3-5 months to grow this equivalent. (20-40 years trees)

-2 Construction products such as medium density fiber board, oriented strand board, and even beams, studs and posts could be made out of hemp. Because of hemp's long fibers, the products will be stronger and/or lighter than those made from wood.

-3 The products that can be made from hemp number over 25,000.

-4 Hemp fibers are longer, stronger, more absorbent and more mildew-resistant than cotton.

-5 Hemp can be made into fine quality paper. The long fibers in hemp allow such paper to be recycled several times more than wood-based paper.

-6 Hemp can displace cotton which is usually grown with massive amounts of chemicals harmful to people and the environment. 50% of all the world's pesticides are sprayed on cotton.

-7 Hemp can yield 3-8 dry tons of fiber per acre. This is four times what an average forest can yield.

-8 Hemp has been grown for at least the last 12,000 years for fiber (textiles and paper) and food. It has been effectively prohibited in the United States since the 1950s.

-9 Because of its importance for sails (the word "canvass" is rooted in "cannabis") and rope for ships, hemp was a required crop in the American colonies.

-10 George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew hemp. Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

-11 Henry Ford experimented with hemp to build car bodies. He wanted to build and fuel cars from farm products.


Theres so much more it's rediculous you can literally run a car on hemp....



-Psycho

Pro Cannabis.











www.naihc.org...

I wanted to point out the Federal drug initiative against American growers:

Here we have a stupid Yahoo blogger, whose job it is to "inform"(?) us and explain recent truths that the majority of the financial industry (i.e.: banks) are floating themselves with narcodollar accounts.

This tool of the media here, explains how he sees it:

news.yahoo.com...

LEAD STORY: Thank goodness for the illegal drug industry, especially if you're a Northern California farmer (or a bank having trouble balancing the books without all those cash deposits of laundered drug money).

One Industry That Needs No Stimulus: Drug officials in California's Mendocino, Humboldt and Trinity counties (north of San Francisco) estimated in January that two-thirds of the area's economy is based on probably illegal marijuana farming (illegal under federal law, but permitted for medical use by the state). One federal agent told MSNBC, "Nobody produces any better marijuana than (they) do right here." [MSNBC, 1-22-09]

In January, the director of the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime acknowledged that during the bleak banking days of September and October 2008, with panic in the economy over the shortage of cash, often the main source available to some banks was drug dealers' steady deposits of money to be laundered. [International Herald Tribune-Reuters, 1-25-09]
oney).

What this uneducated tool is masking over, is that US taxpayers are fighting this narcodollar war NOT in northern california really, but in Afghanistan. Cannabis is an American cash crop and his offhand refrence to the UN exposure of narcodollar banks is INTERNATIONAL and related to opium! This guy is using that truth to spin against The American Free Grower, who is actually the biggest threat to the world drug trade (US BushCo Narcoalliance) that exists. Nobody rich wants Americans to produce their own pain-meds --NOBODY.

So this useless blogster here, is taking world exposure and world truth about the rivers of narco-dollars which are propping up the world economy right now, and using it to focus where his media masters tell him to focus it: On 'illegal' US cannabis operations in the PacNorWest.

Let's remember that this area In Northern California is where the Federal Gov't finally finished their war against the indians. Now they still continue the hemp war there, desperate to hold their cash-flows intact, and away from the US citizens. Nobody will ever grow there except legal growers, according to the CHP, Nat Guard, Cal Sherrifs, Local PD, etc, etc --all of which are defending their turf in the forests while in fact most street level cannabis is hydro anyways. It's hilarious really how they cannot percieve their eventual failure in their war to control this plant.

The fact that Californians have found nothing wrong with voting compassion into law (what a novel concept!), means little to the Fed Controlled Drug Trade called modern politics. The "Mexicans" who are growing weed in the northen california area are the real threat to America, right? Not Osama?

Legal cannabis growers will no doubt be blamed for the next explosive-mass-murder-and-towers-falling? To what length will the Kingpin go to defend his sea-of-green?

It would be funny if it weren't so hateful toward the oldsters and the poor and those in pain. But why would our government value their oldster-citizens over financial tricksters, warmongers and Islamic-boogeymen?

I'm beginning to see the true question being circumspectly floated by all three branches of our government. They are silently asking: "What real value is there in the poor, the hurt and the old?"

[edit on 15-2-2009 by smallpeeps]

reply to post by smallpeeps


well the american approximate debt is now over 74 trillion & compare that amount to the entire world gdp with is also 74 trillion, staggering amounts of debt !!!, so yes if the entire global financiall system collapses it will like you pointed out be the drugs industry that will continue propping things up, or the feds & like minded control freaks will continue to polorise things to make sure prices stay high & control is retained, but cannabis & other chemically rich plants will continue to prop as they have for thousands of years. i think now it just comes down to how bad will things get

Originally posted by smallpeeps

Originally posted by stevegmu
Actually, I'm all for legalizing drugs- all of them- as long as they are free

Steve, this plant we are talking about, is free. You did know that, didn't you -That we are talking about a flowering/fruiting plant here? That it costs nothing to bury a seed in the ground and to tend it?

Perhaps like many Americans you have little connection with the soil anymore? Perhaps you do not even have a little garden or maybe even a single fern in your home?

Apples, as one kind of fruit, are free to me and people like Johnny Appleseed. It might seem to you that I wouldn't be able to grow an appletree, but I am certain that I could. And if I did, it wouldn't threaten the apple farmer one bit. See, he loves apples too.

This thing you call "drugs" are actually things other than cannabis. These things are: Viagra, Lipitor, Celebrex, MDMA, etc. The 'fruit' (if you will) we call pills are actuallycultivated by pharmers, and their fields are diverse and span the globe. Their goal is noble, and I agree with your idea that they should provide all their wares for free or next to free, like one might imagine a plant, or a weed, is free, and of no cost. Problem is this: Pill Pharmer protects his turf with intellectual force and is jealous like none other.

The crime associated with drugs are what I have a problem with. The two inevitably go hand in hand, and always will- regardless of legality.

Regardless of legality? Please, tell us more.

What you fail to grasp(?) is that cannabis costs money for even grandma who has hip pain BECAUSE of the judge and the cop and the PO and the bondsmen, etc. It is they who support their own market, just as during prohibition era. If the prohibitive coercive factors are removed, there is no cost. Like we have today with booze: Massive companies can addict people to it and that's cool but it's also cool to brew your own and be a ragin drunker millionaire on microbrews. Prohibitive measures = Al Capone and crime.

Duh.

Anyway the point in my opinion is this: Cannabis is most valuable for its calmative affects. My question to everyone reading, is this: What price can you put on pain relief or calming the Napoleans and Hitlers of the world? Answer carefully if you deny others the relief of their pains or a general calming of the world.

Most of the time, you do not know what thing has caused pain to your fellow human, but we have a world here which ignores that pain unless relief is provided by one certain type of pharmer.

Shall we continue that paradigm? I say: I will never deny another to relieve their pain if they choose to do so. I will never hide behind some corporate veil or power structure and do that. If my fellow human is in pain, I will not prevent them relief. I will not promote a world of workers lining up for pills as in Brave New World. Will you?

We're not talking about heroin here, mind you. We know who has that market cornered already, right? The pharmer/druggist sells the clean derivative product of many plants and flowers from all over the world.


[edit on 12-2-2009 by smallpeeps]

Yes, marijuana is a plant and easy to grow. Moonshine comes from plants and is easy to make. Is making liquor legal for those not licensed? What makes you think if marijuana were legalized, anyone would be allowed to grow it?

Medical marijuana is legal in California, however it is not free. Why would it be should there be a federal law legalizing marijuana? Are pharmaceuticals free?

If someone grows plants in their own home for personal use, doesn't sell or give any to anyone, and doesn't take any out of their homes, why would it matter if marijuana were legal or not? They aren't going to get caught.

reply to post by stevegmu

moonshine does not come from plants, thc is produced in the cannabis plant by the cannabis plant, where as moonshine is a product of distilling alcahole from a reaction, there is no moonshine plant as far as i know

the only way i know of that nature produces alchole is in very small amounts in rotting fruit.

Originally posted by cooler
reply to post by stevegmu

 

moonshine does not come from plants, thc is produced in the cannabis plant by the cannabis plant, where as moonshine is a product of distilling alcahole from a reaction, there is no moonshine plant as far as i know

the only way i know of that nature produces alchole is in very small amounts in rotting fruit.

Really? Do you know what potato vodka is made out of?

Marijuana today- with the exception of dirt weed, is a result of Horticulturists, and does not grow in nature, either.

Originally posted by stevegmu
"the only way i know of that nature produces alchole is in very small amounts in rotting fruit. "

Really? Do you know what potato vodka is made out of?

Marijuana today- with the exception of dirt weed, is a result of Horticulturists, and does not grow in nature, either.

You know potatoes don't just leak vodka, right? There's an entire chemistry lesson involved with making it from lots of potato mash.

And saying that "marijuana today" doesn't grow in nature is completely ridiculous.
It's not like people invented the seeds in a lab somewhere. Sure it's being helped along just like strawberries or any other fruit/veg are bred to highlight certain preferences, but the end product is still just a bunch of flowers.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by alaskan]

Originally posted by stevegmu

Originally posted by cooler
reply to post by stevegmu

 

moonshine does not come from plants, thc is produced in the cannabis plant by the cannabis plant, where as moonshine is a product of distilling alcahole from a reaction, there is no moonshine plant as far as i know

the only way i know of that nature produces alchole is in very small amounts in rotting fruit.

Really? Do you know what potato vodka is made out of?

Marijuana today- with the exception of dirt weed, is a result of Horticulturists, and does not grow in nature, either.

as its been pointed to you, there is no such thing as a moonshine plant in nature !!!
& dirtweed or ditchweed or hemp does get you stoned as ive already pointed out to you this hemp ditchweed like the other various sunk cannabis sold in amsterdam & other seed shops sell hemp as rudaralis, many cananbis smokers say it doesnt get you as stoned as indica or as high as sativa but none the less it does indeed get you stoned, some poeple like cross breeding hemp with indica as hemp will genetics will give you a very short indica that can be grown from seed to flower in 65 days some times less, i have my self grown rudaralis, perfect for cold climates small & fast growing, means its easy to conceal
but at the end of the day yes unbreed or wild hemp that has not been crossed does get you stoned

Originally posted by stevegmu
Really? Do you know what potato vodka is made out of?

Marijuana today- with the exception of dirt weed, is a result of Horticulturists, and does not grow in nature, either.

Cannabis does not grow in nature, but potatoes (and vodka), do. Do you have a shovel or are you just digging this hole with your hands?

Give up your knowledge base, Steve, it's not true or relevant.

You ask, "Just because cannabis is made legal doesn't mean people would grow it." ...I feel that I have drawn all the analogies a truly-honest person could ask for on this subject, but this one's just to hammer the point home:

Achohol requires stills or mash or fermentation. Now why do people do that? Why do people set up chambers in which to ferment (rot) organic matter and make stuff that has little medical value, but which dissociates them from their body and makes them feel warm? Why Steve? Why?

Does it matter if they make the happy juice "as a liniment" for their skin? Does it matter to the buyer who recognizes the Duke Boys and the General Lee and whistles them over so he can buy a case of moonshine from them ol' dukeboys?

None of you points matter, and your whole argument (aside from stubborn singlemindedness in wrong premises) is stupid and non existent. People brew mash because it eases their pain, living in this world. The regulation of it is fine and I know this because EVERY DRUG STORE HAS 8 Dollar Jugs of Vodka at the front and you have to pass by these jugs twice to even GET to the Pill Pharmer's agents at the rear of these "Drug Stores".

I know for a fact that the majority of American Drug Store retail profit is in plastic/canned booze which flies out their doors waaay faster than the FDA/DEA Brave New World pill dispensary at the rear of the store. Do Drug Sellers care that their customers are addicted to alchohol? Nah, they make more money off the jugs of vodka than the measley kickbacks and hassles from the Pill Pharmer and his agents.

Drug Stores = alchohol dispensers --Little of which is even brewed or made in America. Oh, and the Pill Pharmer has his shed at the back, if you are elderly or need drugs to stay alive, and if you can dodge the pain-killing bottle sof booze, you might actually find something to heal you at the Drug Store.

But even these products of the Drug Peddler do not equate to a plant which can be found growing naturally all over the US (not just 'dirt' weed) and which has been known in ancient times (as has the metod for making booze).

It's pain-killling, Steve. Just because you have little or no pain in your life at present (an assumption on my part) doesn't mean it's okay to dismiss the majority of people in the world who like to feel good. Let them use booze or cannabis and let both markets be free.

Only corporations (not individual actual living humans) should be taxed in these endeavors because only corporations have the ability to make nuclear bombs and wreck the whole world. Last time I checked, the US didn't drop cannabis plants onto Hiroshima and it wasn't a firestorm of cannabis smoke which destroyed Dresden. No, I think the world has had enough of this paradigm. Peace is the future, even if some taxes and black markets must die for that future.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by smallpeeps]

reply to post by cooler


Yeah, seeing that alcohol and tobacco are legal despite the volumes of medical evidence against them, and the lack thereof concerning marijuana, I feel confidant in saying the illegality of it has nothing to do with public health concerns. Not only is it capable of undermining certain profitable industries, it is a sustainable resource. Not only that, with marijuana illegal, the government is able to target those with dissenting voices who happen to smoke pot.

Originally posted by bloodWolf762
reply to post by cooler

 

Yeah, seeing that alcohol and tobacco are legal despite the volumes of medical evidence against them, and the lack thereof concerning marijuana, I feel confidant in saying the illegality of it has nothing to do with public health concerns. Not only is it capable of undermining certain profitable industries, it is a sustainable resource. Not only that, with marijuana illegal, the government is able to target those with dissenting voices who happen to smoke pot.

well i`m sure the dissenting voices will continue as will the growing of cannabis & the various types of skunk available to any one that wants it
ide say the biggest losers in the war against drugs or should i say the war against life ?, are the certain profitable buisnessness that could be making a lot more profit if they used cannabis in industrys.
& the government that also losses out on the huge revenues that are instead going over seas to be laundered, & then moving onto some tax haven some where.
in the current economic nosedive it may just be a matter of time befor desperation & hunger or even famin very quickly bring people to there sences about cottage industrys & having some thing to trade, at that point maybe cannabis will be treated with the humble respect it deserves