US Rep. Kaptur of Ohio: Foreclosed Owners Should Squat In Their Own Homes.

reply to post by WyrdeOne


Yeah in the beginning of the crisis it was those who wanted to make money off those houses, but now with millions losing their jobs, it will be the average family being kicked out of their house. So take that into account.

And the bank tricked them into the scam. Those scammed by Madoff, are they responsable because they were scammed? The little children kidnapped by an adult, is he responsable? It's the same thing. Most people don't know a thing about mortage, economy, stock market and have a hard time balancing their budget, so the bank tricking them into those loans are the one to blame, we all know that they want to profit off poor people. Those banks can go to hell.

I lost my house last year, to the bank.

Wife got sick, twice. Medical bills piled up, and she was not able to work.
We took a equity line of credit to pay off some of the outstanding stuff.
Thing is, up until I drove down to sign the final papers. Then all the sudden it became an adjustable rate. I signed anyway. Knowing that I could re-fi in a year. Guess what? I couldn't re-fi, even though I was paying on my outstanding medical bills.
We juggled the ever increasing monthly payments, but always managed to pay, even at the last minute. Then, one of our late payments missed the deadline by literally an hour or two.
Now in default, the foreclosure started. Suddenly the "helpful people" at the lender, became jerks, demeaning a-holes.
I would spend 2 hours working out a plan with them over the phone.

I would call again, 2 or 3 days later. NOTHING from the earlier call was documented. It was like it never happened. There was no attempt to work anything out. They lied.

I played this game for about a month. One person said, that if I payed the arrears, they would CONSIDER working something out. LOL.
I may be a fool, but not that big of a fool!

I would have been able to pay them, had they only tried the tiniest bit of reworking of the payment structure..I wasn't even asking for a lower rate, and was willing to pay everything I owed. All I was asking for , was to tack my late payments onto the end of the loan.

One person said, yes, and another would say no.

So, I stayed there until the letter was posted on my house. That was about three months. Then I moved, I love my new place. And GM's loan company has my house. 7 months later, there it sits, empty, losing value. Right next to a bunch of other abandoned homes.

I think I did the right thing,in the end.

I many cases the document that was sold to bundled investment was not exactly the same as the original loan document.

I know that the loan i had on a home stated that i payed my payments on the 15 of the month.

Yet three different loan companies the got the note over the years tried to change the due date of the payments to fit what they wanted.

I had specified the 15 of the month as payment date or i would not have bought the home through that lender.

I even had one lender try to put me on a 30 day billing cycle where i would have to pay on whatever day THEY wanted.

I put a stop to that real quick by claiming breach of contract.

I also had the loan company that bought the loan try to change the insurance requirements on the home. and make me pay more (then i was required by the negotiated loan agreement) to THEM for insurance. (I was using my auto and home insurance company and paying about half what they wanted)

My realtor that negotiated my loan with the bank is also my brother in law.
The banks know not to play games with him. but many of these loan brokers that bought the loans never learned.

Anyone being foreclosed on should take there loan documents to a lawyer that is skilled in that field of law. they may be able to stop a foreclosure by months to up to a year.
or they may be able to force the load holder to renegotiate the loan by threatening to tie the foreclosure up in court for years.

One law firm in Calif has found 60% of the loans in the state that they have looked at are in violation of state law.

Many of these bank that got these people in these adjustable rate loans told the people that they could refinance into a fixed rate loan in a couple of years before the rate jumped if they made there payments on time.

What the banks did not tell them was THERE WAS NO WAY THEY WOULD EVER GET A FIXED RATE LOAN because the banks would never give them one.
Its called bait and switch lending.

It seems to me that the next wave of foreclosures will be from people who ARE responsible, just not rich, who've lost their jobs and their unemployment is running out. In Dalton, GA, unemployment is around 13%. That's awfully high. In 6 months, when benefits run out, and folks still can't find paying jobs, or jobs that will pay the mortgage, what will they do?

[edit on 31-1-2009 by hadriana]

Sorry, let me be more clear. I was only referring to people affected by the ARM/Subprime implosion. People got in over their heads on those loans, not because of dishonesty on the part of the bank, or a lack of transparency in lending but because, as borrowers, they deluded themselves into thinking they could afford more house than they really could.

I feel sorry for people who lost their jobs, I really do. I've still got mine, but who knows for how long? It's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better. There are hundreds of thousands of people who are losing their job because of no fault of their own, and I really feel for them. I hope they manage to find other work...

Look at the big picture. Never before in history have so many had so much in terms of disposable income and luxury. Billions of people in countries across the globe work harder and have more education, but we're the ones with the big televisions, leather couches, the two cars, the dinners out and so forth. We paid for our (relative) opulence with credit, and now it's come time to pay the piper.

I can't, in good conscience, excuse people from their debts. I do, however, support them when they decide to tell their creditors where to stick it.

There are so many people complaining about their mounting credit card debt, and their inability to make their bills on time, but these are the people with the 2007 car/truck in the garage, the satellite cable, the big-screen plasma television, and so on.

I'll agree that the cost of necessities is ridiculous, and even if you're relatively frugal you may have trouble making ends meet with a job in the 10-15 dollar range (higher than minimum, but still not enough). I see where honest, hardworking people are being screwed by a system they didn't create, and I think it sucks. But we have to ask ourselves, how did we get here?

For every one person just down on their luck, there are probably hundreds who simply lack the fiscal discipline to live within their means, people who lack the will and foresight necessary to make sacrifices in order to prepare for the rough patches that we inevitably go through.

How many people in this country would be just fine right now if they had put away a few grand instead of buying a new car?

we all know that they want to profit off poor people. Those banks can go to hell.

This is a bunch of crap. If the same bank refused to loan money to these people, they'd be up in arms about the damn bank not giving them money, but when the bank does loan them money they're up in arms because of the terms. What's wrong with this picture? Banks don't go knocking on doors trying to hook people into loans, people go to banks BEGGING for money, to get the things they want but can't afford, and the bank is the bad guy? Please...

I believe that bankers in general are a plague on society, but you absolutely CANNOT remove responsibility from the borrowers for taking the loans.

[edit on 31-1-2009 by WyrdeOne]

[edit on 31-1-2009 by WyrdeOne]

A new law should provide that if creditor uses unfair collection practice it wil be forbidden to collect on its debt, period. And the law should include the creditor in its operation as well as a debt collector.

reply to post by WyrdeOne

I did not get involved with the ARM/Subprime problem. I think it would be A LOT easier to agree with you if this involved a few hundred thousand foreclosures. But the truth is, it involves millions. Many do not understand that a lot of Americans firstly, do not comprehend simple economics/finances thanks to the VERY POOR education most are getting in AMERICAN schools. The other thing is that many people were the victims of less than honest business practices. This did not just affect poor, uneducated people...it involved many young first time buyers. NOW, in America, millions of doomed mortgage holders can not pay their mortgages. The solution to this has been TARP which has been protested by millions of citizens, yet managed to to fly through irregardless. Billions of dollars went to banks holding these "toxic assets", as they have been labeled. So if YOU are CORRECT, it seems to follow that the BANKS actually believed these mortgages were ok (or else they issued these mortgages like shooting themselves in the foot?), yet, YOU think that this is the fault of "delusional" PO FOLK that ain't none too smart...PEOPLE WERE DUPED into the BS mortgages and I have heard the story over and over again. I have seen tracts of new homes *NOW EMPTY* wiped out due to this crisis, and I have to ask myself who are the winners here. I can't for the life of me put the blame on the people that tried to buy a house and got screwed in many cases. NO, not while FAT CATS skimmed everything off the top fast enough to collapse this country's LARGEST banks. Billions in bonuses, and billions more from TARP money. THE GREATEST SCAM in American history and people want to blame their neighbors??? Disgusting. REALLY, don't you smell something really ROTTEN here?
I am a responsible person too!!! I don't let that get my head ALL inflated!!! There is a bit of luck involved with paying the bills on time. If you can manage a lifetime without going backwards at some time then you are blessed. But in these last few years I went from 100k, to 76k, to 36k. I WAS doing the EXACT same damn job, only it was costing ME more to get the job done. There was less work year after year, until there wasn't enough to pay for me to get to work anymore. I feel sorry for ANYONE that is still on "THEIR" side after seeing what JUST happened in this country. Billions were looted, billions were replaced, bankers living in luxury, my neighbors are on the street. AND IT IS US and Them...if you didn't witness that in the last few months you must be delusional. The people DID NOT WANT A BAILOUT FOR THE BANKS...!!! Hope YOUR luck lasts forever...

Originally posted by deadline527
I only make $45,000 a year. I still live with my parents

And you called others irresponsible?

[edit on 1/31/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

Show me the paper douche bag! You made need to fly to China and find a good translator and Chinese accountant and lawyer! Then fly back to Ohio and we will have a good lawyer waiting to make sure your papers are in order. Probably will go to court hopefully before a jury of 12 foreclosed citizens who I am sure will give you a fair hearing!

reply to post by AllSeeingI


It should be noted, property rights were considered just as important by the Founders as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That means that to take away your property, there is 'supposed' to be full due process/jury trial under Common Law (constitutional law). There isn't. We have arrived at an age where we literally have no property 'rights' at all, just revokable privileges (try protesting your property tax by not paying and see how long you remain in "your" house). That said, laws governing 'property rights' vary from state to state. Basically, some states adhere to the "possession is 9/10th's of the law" adage, others don't. There have been numerous legal attempts (some successful) proving that banks don't actually 'loan' or risk anything in a real estate mortgage- which, at best is unethical and at worse, is constructive fraud for which you can sue for triple damages. Think about it-- the money for your home loan did not exist until the moment your signed loan application is approved- what a happy coincidence! What the banks do is place your IOU into a demand deposit checking account, from which they write the check you use to buy that dream hoome. The bank keeps 100% ownership rights until the last penny is paid back, at interest (formerly known as usury). At no point do they risk anything more than the cost to create the mortgage paperwork to keep you on the hook for 30 years. This is wy Thomas Jefferson said if citizens truly understood the manner in which banks operated, there would be revolution before morning. I say "a little revolution now and then is a good thing".

Originally posted by deadline527


Im sorry but if you have a 10$ an hour job and take a $300,000 mortgage thinking you can pay for it then you have worse problems then forclosure. I dont see why people feel bad for the ones who knowingly went ahead and agreed to make may payments they knew they could not keep up with. As for the legitimate mortgage owners who may have lost their jobs, or business dried up and they are unable to make payments, that I am sympathetic to and understand. It can happen to anybody. But, the latter does not deserve the same consideration. Sure, I would love to own a 6 bedroom house on a beautiful lake, but I only make $45,000 a year.

I used to be a loan officer at a mortgage company and this is just an ignorant statement. People that make low income do not get a mortgage like that if any at all. You have to be within your debt to income ratio which depends on your credit. Nearly ALL of the foreclosed home owners were able to make a payment at the original rate on an ARM loan that in most cases started out at between 6-9% interest rate. The problems started when the arm came to fruitation and that persons credit in two years time did not improve enough to get a decent fixed rate that equaled there original ARM.

The rate went up to between 10-14% interest rate and the payment went up 20-40 percent and they then of course could not afford the home. They are throwing American families, your friends relatives and neighbors on the street because they would not remortgage at a rate most good credit customers would never take in the first place. They can make the payment on a 6% rate. Then the foreclose rate started to eat our economy alive and people then started to get foreclosed because of job loss.

Sounds fair to me. /sarcasm

It is being done for reasons I cannot fathom. What flavor kool-aid do you like? You seem to be drinking what they give you without even asking whats in it.


edit to add:

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Sorry, let me be more clear. I was only referring to people affected by the ARM/Subprime implosion. People got in over their heads on those loans, not because of dishonesty on the part of the bank, or a lack of transparency in lending but because, as borrowers, they deluded themselves into thinking they could afford more house than they really could.

Read my post and try again. This is wrong and is for the most part a lie put on the public by who knows who. I originated Mortgages for years before getting a conscience and becoming a Firefighter.


[edit on 31-1-2009 by LoneGunMan]

I'm curious to know how many people being foreclosed on are involved with Wells Fargo? ....or any connection to WF thru present loan originator

Here's a curiosity for y'all. I owned a small cafe (with fuel sales) for 12 years. I purchased it with 50% down. Made timely mortgage payments and kept property and other taxes paid. Well, the note matured in Feb. '07 and they refused to refinance me.

Forclosed on me and now Wells Fargo owns the place.

reply to post by DarrylGalasso


Thats exactly what I thought Darryl. Ummm make 45 grand a year living with Mom and Dad and cant save enough beans to have a down payment and get out of the basement? I sure wish I had just a couple years living off of....oops...I mean with Mom and Dad. Sure should be able to save some dough that way while making 45 grand.

reply to post by deenamarie53


I used to get leads from lendingtree.com I would then find a lender to do the loan. I could never get Wells Fargo to originate a loan.

Everyone needs to read my above post and band together instead of blaming mom and pop.

Mom and pop are getting screwed and soon the rest of us are.

reply to post by LoneGunMan


WF has no soul.

My loan was originally with a small town bank---until WF bought them out.

You know, I had a premonition that I'd lose my place when I heard the news of WF buying my old bank. I saw it coming.

Being a female it was damn hard to get the loan in the first place....

Originally posted by deenamarie53
reply to post by LoneGunMan

 

WF has no soul.

My loan was originally with a small town bank---until WF bought them out.

You know, I had a premonition that I'd lose my place when I heard the news of WF buying my old bank. I saw it coming.

Being a female it was damn hard to get the loan in the first place....

Screw them, that is just wrong. It was not your fault. Damn all the lending institutions to hell.

EVERYONE for once band together America and stpo this crap!

Originally posted by deadline527

Im sorry but if you have a 10$ an hour job and take a $300,000 mortgage thinking you can pay for it...

Q:
Why would a bank loan $300k to someone who makes $10 an hour?


A:
Because the bank knew it had nothing to lose.



How can a bank loan $300k to someone making $10 an hour and know it had nothing to lose? Because they created the money out of thin air. Besides, even if they're not paid back, they get the house. Something for nothing!

Anyone want to try and prove that theory wrong?

reply to post by WyrdeOne



Thomas Jefferson said, "If the American people ever realized how the banking system actually operated, there would be revolution before morning." 70% of our GDP is dependent upon consumer credit, not production. It is the mother of all Ponzi schemes. What else can be assumed, when a wealthy, sovereign Republic hands off their means of creating money to a European owned Rothschild bank, now called the Federal Reserve? Our dollar has lost 98% of its value since the unconstitutional Reserve Act of 1913. JFK tried to weaken the Fed by issuing silver certificates and coins, and they killed him for it. He had also tried to get us out of Vietnam, but next to loaning money, banks like nothing better than a good long war. The subprime mortgage and credit smorgasborg was created to build a multi-trillion dollar derivatives bubble to subsidize the Iraq and Afghanistan wars without increasing taxes (notice how they continue to cut taxes even now). The currently 'missing' bailout billions will no doubt help fund a much-desired war with Iran. The Fed has printed so much money that they no longer report the total amount in circulation (called the M3). Thanks to this subterfuge, we are literally 'waking up penniless on the land for which our fathers died." Although it's convenient to blame those who have fallen for this insidious debauchery, we have to recognize the source, not just the unfortunate side effects.

It's still shocking to me seeing so many people I work with everyday, have no clue how threatening this crisis has become. It's kind of sick how the MSM portrays an "Everything is Allllright" attitude whereas perhaps CSPAN and some other networks somewhat attempt outline the potential disaster that foreshadows the United States (and the rest of the world). But who really watches the news? Most of the people I know watch ESPN or sitcoms and prime time Detective crap shows like CSI-As a side note, do you ever notice how the suspect in these crappy shows NEVER invokes his/her 1st amendment right to remain silent; or is NEVER questioned within the presence of his/her lawyer? Yet they ALWAYS crack under the pressure of the detective's 'hunch.' It's sick how that mind-trap-crap actually intimidates citizens and young people. *soap box* Anyhow, it is also worrying when you consider how many people rent (like myself)...In any event. I'll keep watching MTV and making snide comments about Jessica Simpson's recent weight gain displayed at the chili cook-off. (keep it heavy, baby...yea)

Originally posted by username371
Anyone want to try and prove that theory wrong?

Yes I will. They dont loan beyond your debt to income ratio unless you have the kind of credit you would kill to keep. Then there are strict guidelines.

Read my post a little way up the thread.

Everyone is being played and screwed. We need to be a nation that helps each other. We are being scammed. My only logical answer (everything else does not make sense after being in the business of lending) is that it is being done on purpose to horde as much money as they can (bailout) let the economy crash while you feed the public BS so we will all work for what they hand us so we can survive.

Its seems to be an economic Coupe.