Surviving a Pandemic...

I did a brief search to see if this was already discussed and didn't see anything.

I am looking into what some people are doing in preperation to survive a posible pan (or epi)demic. What type of forthought can one take to keep themselves and the ones they love from catching or being attacked (physically) by a victim.

Walmart had 28 Days Later on sale and I picked it up. Not the best movie, but it raised a lot of questions for me. Aside knocking off posible zombies, how can one prevent the catching of a type of bacterial agent that mutates the human body (or even just kills the human).

reply to post by Jkd Up


Ok number 1 is to make your immune system as strong as possible.

Eat well, exercise, take appropriate supplements and herbs.

I reccoment having properly made collodial silver on hand. I advise against taking antibiotics unless one is actually infected with something because the person will develope a tolerance.

Then when the pandemic breaks out be prepared to quarentine oneself somehow. Most of the people who survived the Black Plague were the ones that lived in or could afford to move to the country.

If you must go out avoid the most crowded places and avoid touching people. Cover your mucoous membranes--that is, your eyes, ears, nose. Wear gloves when out and about. Wash your hands OFTEN.

Do not go to hospitals, doctor's offices, churches, public transit, food and convenience stores, or other places where the sick will be sure to congregate.

Be wary of animal vectors like rats and insects that might carry the sickness to you even if you isolate yourself. Step up the pest control.

I would boil all water, and cook all food before eating, to be on the safe side.

Thus speaks the Plague Doctor.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by asmeone2]

reply to post by asmeone2


The plague Doctor has spoken.. . And gives great advice... Thanks! Any provisions that one can have on hand? It's not like a gas mask would work unless you had a large ammount of filters (they only last about 8 hours...)

reply to post by Jkd Up


A stash of food should go without saying.

I would say as far as germs, bleach, rubbing alcohol, well-made collodial silver, sterile m asks (not foolproof for stopping germs, but will protect the mouth and nose) a really big pot you could boil silverware, cups, baby bottles, things like that in, rubber gloves,

Maybe also extra air conditioner filters.

Oh yes, and any pharmaceutical drugs that one would need to keep himself alive, like insulin, ect.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by asmeone2]

it can happen any time ... but I think we will know if this thing is coming our way ...

Originally posted by Jkd Up


Walmart had 28 Days Later on sale and I picked it up. Not the best movie, but it raised a lot of questions for me. Aside knocking off posible zombies, how can one prevent the catching of a type of bacterial agent that mutates the human body (or even just kills the human).

Bacterial agents can be treated with broad spectrum antibiotics, some of us get them with a private script from a doctor, or bull# the suppliers of expedition supplies into selling you a range of antibiotics. others especially in the US follow Ragnar Bensons approach and obtain vetenarian antibiotics which according to his books in many cases are identical to human versions.

Its viral outbreaks that cause problems like influenza, ebola etc, and your only real defence is isolation, IE bug out and hunker down somewhere safe until the outbreak passes. You can fit rooms and retreats with home made filters to reduce the risk of airborn contamination.

Again I know I go on about how bad cities are for survivalists but having millions of people living in close proximity encourages epidemics, its another reason why serious survivalists wont like in cities.

reply to post by Jkd Up

In israel they are taught to make safe rooms.

Take one room and completely plastic it shut with plastic and
duct tape, you will need some kind of air to come in and use
a manual air pump and a small micron filter.

find out what the effectiveness of the filter is and as a group
buy enough to last at least 12 weeks as that is the usual time
window of an outbreak of Bird Flu.

Consider all the supplies you will need for you and all your
group for at least 12 weeks, and heavily barricade the doors
and windows as a precaution.

Watch the movie "right at your door" for an idea of what it can be like.




[edit on 30-1-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

Mhmm, antibiotics only work against bacteria.
If it's something that they have a vaccination for, and you think you can SAFELY get your hands on it, I suggest that (even though I know many ATSers are anti-vaccination.)

Smallpox, etc, there are vaccinations for and even though there are reactions to them, and side effects, it's probably worth it.

If it can be transmitted through fleas, you're pretty much stuck, since you don't need pets to get fleas in your house.

Plus, if it is spread before symptoms develop (long incubation time) and you go about your daily lives before people are aware that something happened, you're in big trouble, too.

The chances are, that whatever comes, you wont be aware or know what is taking place. For most it will be pure 'luck' that they will be in a position to act upon such a situation.

How many people for example, would be in a position to know if their water supply had been tampered with compared to an out right epidemic, natural or man made?. In all possible scenarios your best chances of survival is to flee and find somewhere isolated that offers isolation from the rest of the world. Only then will you be in a position to make the hard decisions later on if you survive the initial outbreak.

Originally posted by Freelancer
The chances are, that whatever comes, you wont be aware or know what is taking place. For most it will be pure 'luck' that they will be in a position to act upon such a situation.

How many people for example, would be in a position to know if their water supply had been tampered with compared to an out right epidemic, natural or man made?. In all possible scenarios your best chances of survival is to flee and find somewhere isolated that offers isolation from the rest of the world. Only then will you be in a position to make the hard decisions later on if you survive the initial outbreak.

I have been cycling through stored water.

In other words, I have a 90 day supply and I drink the oldest water
in my supply and refill the bottle when empty.

It is a pretty good idea as long as you follow the basic safety steps.

These have all been great responses and I thank you all for your inpt!

My main concern would be a virus or bacteria that is not longer treatable with medicine. Obviously doctors and hospitals would (at this time) be about as unneeded as the obvios would proclaim.

Perhaps some thoughts on how to sniff out the eipidemic before it reaches epidemic proportions, maximizing survival abilities.

Originally posted by Jkd Up
These have all been great responses and I thank you all for your inpt!

My main concern would be a virus or bacteria that is not longer treatable with medicine. Obviously doctors and hospitals would (at this time) be about as unneeded as the obvios would proclaim.

Perhaps some thoughts on how to sniff out the eipidemic before it reaches epidemic proportions, maximizing survival abilities.

Stopping it before it spreads is outside the scope of any one person, family, or neighborhood. you would have to forcibly quarentine everyone from the sick area and prevent everyone from going in or our (perhaps one scenario in which temporary martial law is actually justified, if it as a virulant Ebola-type thing.) And that still might not work, depending on what kind of natural vectors you might have.

One thing that kills a lot of people in a pandemic is dehydration... many of the dead could have been saved with a simple IV. This is not practical or maybe even legal for most of us to keep, but it's a thought I thought I would throw out there.

reply to post by asmeone2


I am not sure about the laws and regulations, but I know, having a strong medical background, that you can get IVs from.... Ummm... sources. However, that giving them will take some skill. Once you are able to tap your own arm, or someone elses, you will be good. But practice will be needed.

I have found that fire fighters and medics are usually a great place to find all sorts of cool things like IVs and other emergency supplies/needs. Again, laws and regs change from state to state.

Originally posted by Jkd Up
reply to post by asmeone2

 

I am not sure about the laws and regulations, but I know, having a strong medical background, that you can get IVs from.... Ummm... sources. However, that giving them will take some skill. Once you are able to tap your own arm, or someone elses, you will be good. But practice will be needed.

I have found that fire fighters and medics are usually a great place to find all sorts of cool things like IVs and other emergency supplies/needs. Again, laws and regs change from state to state.

Yeah but ina pandemic sicuation IVs would probably not be worth the trouble unless it is an utterly dire situation. For a while there would be no antibiotics to speak of, one infection would do you in.

Science fiction treatments of this subject may be a very helpful way to do a walkthrough of what a day, a week, a month or longer might actually be like in an actual pandemic situation.

On Amazon.com you can see used paperback copies for sale of a novel on this subject called Emergence which just recently (2008) had a sequel published by its author David A. Palmer:

www.allreaders.com...

Some of you will be pleased to learn that "Tracking," the sequel to "Emergence," is being serialized in three parts by Analog SF magazine, commencing with the July/August double issue, due out toward the end of this month. Inchoate talk are also underway with Wormhole Press to bring "Tracking" out as a hardcover and paperback sometime next year.

Secondly, I've also completed "Spcial Education" (dunno if that'll show up properly in HTML; it's "special," with a long-vowel diacritical bar over the "e," as in "species"), sequel to "Threshold."

Thirdly, I just finished "Schrödinger's Frisbee," an unrelated SF novel about a boy and his dog, his girlfriend -- and alien abduction.

And finally, a movie option has been sold for "Emergence"; a screenplay now exists. The efforts of anyone who wishes to join me in breath-holding and finger-crossing will be appreciated.

Wormhole Press is equally interested in them, and in rereleasing "Emergence" and "Threshold." Check back here occasionally on amazon.com; coerce your local booksellers. Tell two friends; ask them to tell two friends, etc. Repeat this to a depth of 20 conversations and you've alerted over a million friends.

Thanks again for your enthusiasm and patience -- and for the kind thoughts embodied in the occasional, somewhat premature eulogies I've read here and on other websites.

Very truly,

David R. Palmer

[edit on 2/17/2009 by Uphill]

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[edit on Tue Feb 17 2009 by Jbird]

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by Jkd Up

 

I advise against taking antibiotics unless one is actually infected with something because the person will develope a tolerance.
[edit on 29-1-2009 by asmeone2]

I wish anti-biotics worked with individuals and not just for the 'herd'. The best I've had so far is avoiding all drugs until one tooth felt particularly bad. First time in ages I've taken pain-killers and one did the trick straight away. Straight to sleep mind...

What kills you is your bodies over reaction to the virus. You drown in your own immune response.

Tamiflu is based on the idea that you have to mute your bodies over reaction - they have extracted the shikimic (sp?) acid from Star Anise to create Tamiflu. Though the company itself claims that using star anise will not work for you as it is. I think I worked it out at one point and the amount of star anise used for one tamiflu pill was like 9-15 star anise.

(some families in the middle and far east use an "old's wives" recipe when they have a cold or flu. Frying up star anise, cayenne, and some other ingredients I cannot remember and they drink it with coffee.)

This is also why young healthy men died so fast of the 1910 one. Their healthy immune systems reacted so fast and so strong that they drown in their own fluids.

You can try not to catch it. Good idea. However, you are unlikely to KNOW that you have already caught if for 2 to 15 days depending on the incubation period of the virus. During that time, people will be walking around shedding the virus without symptoms.

That is a minor problem in the avoidance plan. Can't avoid what you don't know is there. Avoidance doesn't matter when you've already contracted it.

So, your real issue is likely to be management and survival of symptoms.

You and your family will likely not moving around for a while. You'll need easy access to all the drink and items you need.

If you have small children, you are going to need to think about how they are going to get themselves things to drink when they and YOU are probably incapacitated. Your small children are as likely to die of water starvation as anything else in this scenario.

I would suggest that if you have small children and infants that you plan for them to all be in one room with you. You aren't going to be walking too far. Hopefully you're infants are breatfed - because then you won't have to worry about storing a week of formula in that room and it not going bad.

As soon as you notice symptoms in you or others, I suggest you make sure that your children all have bottles of water around, in easy reach. Lots of them. That they can open themselves. That way if you are too weak to be able to open them, you aren't also dying with the knowledge that your children are going to die of thirst because Mommy/Daddy are too weak to help them.

Which brings me to another thought I've been tossing around. Making sure I have some sort of stimulant handy in case I need to be able to get up and move and stay awake for a while. Caffeine pills. Speed? Still mulling that one around.

You want to have ways to clear the mucuous/fluids out of your lungs. This is what will kill you first and fastest. There are other enzymes that are good anti-inflammatories as well.

I keep Serrapeptase and a inhaled steroid for this. We also happen to have an oxygen concentrator. I've been thinking about this, because my big lovely brute of a husband happens to have some bad lungs on him (wet asthma, OSA) and would NOT be a priority patient in the event of a pandemic. I'd like to keep him around for a while.

A nebulizer for treating secondary infections in the lungs. Nebulized c.silver or a water extract oil of oregano to combat those opportunistic bacterial infections.

I'm sure that there are other things to combat wet lungs so you don't drown when you cannot get to a hospital. I'd be happy to hear other people's ideas on it.

I happen to think that one of the pandemics (the black death) that hit the planet was everywhere, but that in Europe the Black Death was actually 2 different plagues happening at the same time. This would help account for the variety of it compared to all the other areas hit, and account for the selective genetic mutation that is only found in Europeans because of it. (the mutation that makes europeans have a 2-11% chance of being resistant to AIDS). What was different about the European plague? I think that it was the Black Death AND A hemoraghic fever at the same time. Or something very similar to a hemorraghic fever (flu A mutation...)

So, that brings you to the second possible survival scenario. This is a different scenario than the Spanish Flu. Serrpeptase and any other blood thinner would likely be a REALLY bad idea then. This is a virus that causes a multisystem failure. There doesn't appear to be any serious treatment for it in the medical lit. Though there does appear to be some companies with large mice and guinea pig survival rates using their drugs that (I think) disrupt the lipid formation of the virus.

So, assuming you or a family member already HAVE the virus before you realize that there is a problem (very likely), how do you plan on surviving?

I had another thought to add about water.

Water by itself might not be the best thing. An electrolyte mix for the water would be a good idea. You can buy gatorade powder, and other electrolyte drink mixes from your hiking/camping equipment store.

I used that electrolyte stuff in my platypus when I was on my cycling trips. I don't know whether it worked but I do know I didn't feel ill so I guess it did. Already have some for my BOB.

Aeons, that star anise thing. Would you crush them up and add it like tumeric or what? That stuff is pretty sharp. Incorrectly prepared it would be very painful going in...






and out!