Are the Old and New testament God the same God?

I am a Christian and as part of my faith I have to take the new and old testament as being part and parcel of my belief. I find this a really difficult thing to accept. because the God described in the old testament has a chosen group - the jews and in the new testament it is all who believe in him. In the old testamanet he is pretty angry at everybody who doesn't jump when he says jump, or even faintly annoy his "chosen" people. He smites people on request, he asks people to sacrifice their children, to stone unruly children can be stoned by the elders, he is vengefull and jealous, wants to seal a covenant with them by having them lob off their foreskins, just to mention a few of his near psychotic attributes. In the new Testament he seems to be much more loving and peaceful (Prozac?), he raises the dead , he heals the sick, he loves the unchosen and they can keep their foreskins too.

I must say the old testament to me reads like Jewish mythology. The new testamant is about forgiveness and love - this is a God I can believe in.

Is there a Christian denomination that excludes the old testamant, because I want to join it.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Mynaeris]

Is there a Christian denomination that excludes the old testamant, because I want to join it.

I SHALL ROLL UP MY SLEAVS

:p

rightttyy...

I think your a great person, i dont know you and i dont want to come across as some #wipe here but!!

old and new is my problem here.. i dont like the bible becouse a guy "or guys" wrote it.. "jefferson bible" used to ingorinate presidents..!?

you dont need ANY book to be close to your being "who you are"..

life is a mess and that book or any other book is the reason why

I do belive in GOD but not as a guy.. i see god as mmm ME being alive!!

Please have fait in yourself.. dont question silly books, old or new

i dont know if that helped but it sounds like your questioning the fait you have.

when really you dont need to be

According to the trinity doctrine they are. If you accept that Jesus is the Father in my way of thinking he must have multiple personality disorder. I see Jesus as a teacher and an emissary of the real creator, a being of love and forgiveness. I think he was sent to set the record straight and to do away with this notion of an angry and conquering god.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but according to Galatians 3:29 you become the "seed" of Abraham when you accept Christ.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise".

Yup, even in the NT you must be part of that chosen seed to attain the promises of salvation. What I have never gotten is the contradictions in the bible. Just before that statement we read in verse 23..."There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ Jesus". Hmmm, next verse say that the spiritual state of "salvation" makes those promises available to you because you are now the seed of Abraham.

I have to admit in some ways it was so nice to be one of the sheep and buy every word the preachers said about the bible. Once I really undertook my own study of it, things drastically changed.

I believe that much of the angry god of the OT was for the purpose of keeping the Jews in line and keeping the nations around them in fear of their terrifying god. Remember, it was this same god that told Joshua to head into Jericho and devote the city to destruction and take the gold and silver for the treasury. They killed everyone in that city, male, female young and old and burned it to the ground. Wouldn't we call that genocide and war crimes now. Blaming it on god seems to be the pattern in the OT. They committed terrible acts on the people of the region and all in the name of their god of conquest.

I just don't go for that. I see it as a history of a people, a desert clan with a vengeful god. You read all over the OT how the peoples of the nations feared their god. I would have been scared of their god too. It was all in the name of conquest and land grabbing. Sounds a whole lot like what has happened in present day Israel doesn't it????? Thing is today people don't go for God made me do it. LOL red

[edit on 1/29/2009 by redhead57]

I don't see how anyone could consider the idea that the old and new testament are talking about the same God. God, the idea of a God, an all knowing being of creation, would not "change his mind" and say "go ahead and eat pork, it's okay now." That's a silly example of course, but you get the idea. Too many differences. Also, not being a smart-butt here, but there are a great number of other threads on this.

star and flag
this is my 2nd line

I can star and flag becouse i was ment to

; )

see how it works?

If you go back to the first verse of Genesis, you will find that "In the beginning Alohim AT created the heavens and the Earth." We do not hear about Alohim AT again. The word Alohim is feminine plural. Later God is called YHVH, as in Deuteronomy 6:4., which states in Hebrew "Shema Israel YHVH elohenu, YHVH echad" which can be interpreted in English as Hear oh Israel YHVH elohenu, YHVH is (number) one, or the first.

You will find that the New and the Old testaments can be looked at as numbers as well as letters. So the bible can be seen as mathematic and word codes. For example exodus2006.com... is one of the "letter skip" codes.

Then there are the other Bible Codes like the Vernon Jenkins Geometry, for example
www.whatabeginning.com...
Genesis 1:1 in math terms is very significant, the total of the letters come to 2701 which is 37 X 73, or a mutually reflective prime pair.

There is more to the Bible than just words.

Explore and enjoy.

The original issue you seem to be wrestling with Mynaeris is two thousand years old. When Christ had spoke of His Father, it was a bit difficult for many in his day to reconcile the difference between what they'd learned of God (in the old testament) and what Jesus was saying about Him. It isn't that God is different, it's that there's a lot of things about God we need to understand. He has many characteristics just as we people can be described by more than one adjective. For example, my co-workers might say I approach work with a cheerful attitude whereas my spouse may say I complain about work. Both are equally true.

Two characteristics about God that may help us to understand him are:

1.) God is perfectly just - This is lesson #1 we're to learn about in the Old Testament. He is fair and righteous in His actions and ultimately He does punish sin.

and

2.) God is merciful - We find a lot of this kind of speaking in the New Testament. Although he punishes sin, He loves us and wants us to come to Him with our mistakes, seek forgiveness, and turn from those old ways.

Which is it? Is God perfectly just or is He merciful? The answer is both. Sure, it's possible to disregard the Old Testament if you accept Jesus are the one who paid for all of those sins, but if you do you're missing out on some very important aspects as to who God is.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by Mynaeris


Are the Old and New testament God the same God?
Well, God says he is the same "yesterday, today, and forever", which means that he's not bipolar ... So it's either a different God or he's a lier.

Then again, if you're a Christian, it's not that easy. Jesus makes it very clear in the New Testament who his father is - the God of the Torah. If that God were fake (according to Jesus), then he would have said so. So if you accept Jesus' teachings, you kind of have to accept the Old Testament God - it's kind of like accepting your mother-in-law ...
This is why the Old Testament has been the achilles heel of Christianity...
Reminds me of why I left the faith. The pieces don't fit...

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Are the Old and New testament God the same God?

Yes.

That it? Only one question?

[edit on 29-1-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by redhead57
Remember, it was this same god that told Joshua to head into Jericho and devote the city to destruction and take the gold and silver for the treasury. They killed everyone in that city, male, female young and old and burned it to the ground. Wouldn't we call that genocide and war crimes now. Blaming it on god seems to be the pattern in the OT. They committed terrible acts on the people of the region and all in the name of their god of conquest.
[edit on 1/29/2009 by redhead57]

You have to wonder if there was a reason for that...

The city of Jericho was filled with giants. Men of extraordinary stature were also known as 'nefilm' ... fallen angels.
So perhaps it was a war against fallen angels rather than some mass slaughtering of innocents.

Sources...
Giants of Jericho
Jewish Encyclopedia - Giants

I find there is always a good reason behind even the seemingly crazy commands of God.

I believe the God of the old testament is the same God of the New testament

In his journal, Joshua also mentions Jericho's giants. This brief reference, recorded in Joshua 6:2, quotes the Lord as saying to him: "See! I have given Jericho into your hand, its king, and the mighty men of valor." The mighty men here denotes the Gibborim, this phrasing being derived from the same Hebrew word that Moses used in Genesis 6:4 to signify the giants.

from the link posted

If this is the case then the whole reason for the deluge which was to rid the planet of the hybrid children of the "sons of god" and the daughters of men did not work. If you take the bible at it's word, these giants are not of the same type since the bible makes it plain that god took the ability for the angels to take on flesh and engage in this behavior.

It is a group of texts filled with contradiction. I find value in there, but IMHO it is not inspired or the absolute word of god, but simply a history of man and his ideas and experiences. Not much different from current day channelers, each with their own version and variety. There is some truth in it, but you have to sift out the false.

reply to post by Mynaeris




the Old Testament G-d, spanned the Ages of at least Taurus & Aries..(~5,000 BC- to crucifixion) at which time the Age of Picses begins...


but the dawn of intelligent mankind most likely took place during the 3 earlier Ages: Leo, then Cancer, then Gemini (a little more than 6,700 years total before any 'chosen-people' became as such)


As mans consciousness evolved there was devised a need for a
*more Revealed* God,
which we coincide with the new Piscean Age ...(~50BC-2012AD)
& that new concept of G-d should continue through the next ~2150year Age of Aquarius, commencing ~2012....


That is why scripture tells us that the reign of a returning Christ will only be 1,000 years (a millennium)
...as the old, New Testament G-d, of the Picean-Aquarian Ages,
will again morph & evolve into a higher consciousness Being between the end of the Millennial Kingdom around 3112AD, and the ushering in of the next Age (a window of another 1,000 years)
which will be when Aquarius ends & Capricorn begins (~4112AD)

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Are the Old and New testament God the same God?

Yes.

That it? Only one question?

lol...
I was repeating the question asked by the OP.

And the fact that you say "Yes" so quickly does not change the fact that the God of the Old Testament is completely different than the God of the Old Testament.

We shall know them by their fruits, right?
The God of the Old Testament comits so many acts of violence, death, and destruction that he makes Hitler look like a saint.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
... the fact that the God of the Old Testament is completely different than the God of the Old Testament.

Explain how this is fact.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
We shall know them by their fruits, right?
The God of the Old Testament comits so many acts of violence, death, and destruction that he makes Hitler look like a saint.

How many acts of creation had he committed? How many acts of creation have we committed (none) and how much have we destroyed? It makes people we think are perfect saints look like sinners.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by saint4God]

Has anybody read "the lost years of Jesus" in which the author suggests with some albeit circumstantial evidence that maybe Jesus had travelled to the East and learnt about Buddhism. There are great similarities between buddhist teachings and Jesus' teachings. Whilst his teachings are pretty sharply contrasted with the Old testament.

Wasn't the OT just borrowed (or tagged on) so christians with their new white messiah could make their religious sect appear much older than it actualy was (thus impressing the pagans they wanted to convert at the time)?

In his excellent book about the history of time called 'Aeons', Martin Gorst
seems to think this was the case.

As least this would explain the schizophrenic nature of the malicious,vindictive,homicidal,genocidal god of the Old Testament.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by Mynaeris
Has anybody read "the lost years of Jesus" in which the author suggests with some albeit circumstantial evidence that maybe Jesus had travelled to the East and learnt about Buddhism. There are great similarities between buddhist teachings and Jesus' teachings. Whilst his teachings are pretty sharply contrasted with the Old testament.

Yes isn't that the one where he went and partied it up in Ethiopia for a few years (and took lots of magic mushrooms in the process)?

Its a very interesting read

I read a book on that years ago and it was very interesting. I have also read that many legends in India have to do with Jesus, or Issa both prior to and after his ministry in Palestine. It is fascinating to consider this possibility as the similarities are so profound between the teachings.

The OT is a group of Jewish texts that were put together by Constantine, but there were many that were left out such as Maccabees and Enoch. The Apocrypha is a fascinating read. It should be apparent that the OT was manipulated by the early orthodox church as so many popular and important texts were omitted. Even the text that has the history of Hanukkah is part of this book that was not allowed in, I think that is in one of the Maccabees.

We cannot forget that much of Christianity has been so blended with paganism that a large number of people don't even realize it. All done in the name of politics, to form a state religion. Sounds just like the OT to me. LOL

Well sure you could just toss out the OT ..but in order to understand the NT you have to have an understanding of the Old Testament .............

God is not bipolar ...we get mad ..we get jelious we get all those things that God did in the OT ..not one of us does not at some point act on those things (anger etc ) ..................What makes God any different > We were created in his image ..we dont see it as strange or odd when a human gets jelious or when a human gets mad and uses tough love on someone ...or when a country (ruled by humans) has had enough of another countries crap and decides to nuke the heck out of em or go in with guns a blareing ......sometimes enough is enough ...even in the justice system sometimes enough is enough and the death penalty is enacted .......etc etc ....
why is it so hard to understand that the CREATOR would also get jelious and angry etc ..and would also come to a point where he says ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ...
God gives life ...surely he can also take life if he so chooses ..

The bible even says his spirit will not always strive with men (he gets tired of us fighting against him ) .........
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
((((((((Right here is the reason why God gets so upset ...What would you do if the world got this out of control (which it almost is once again) ...How would it make you feel if you were GOD and you saw your creation down here acting this way ??)))))))))))))

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

I dont hear vengence or hate or anger in these verses ..I try and picture it and if I were in his shoes ..and I feel like as it says ..it GRIEVED him in his heart ..the way men do eachother and flip off the God who created them ..I also can see frustraition and can understand why he did what he did....

And as many have pointed out ..the Giants were of the Nephalim and were as ungodly and unholy as they come..and they ......so were the nations who Joshua and them were sent out to conquer ...

Originally posted by redhead57

If this is the case then the whole reason for the deluge which was to rid the planet of the hybrid children of the "sons of god" and the daughters of men did not work. If you take the bible at it's word, these giants are not of the same type since the bible makes it plain that god took the ability for the angels to take on flesh and engage in this behavior.

It is a group of texts filled with contradiction. I find value in there, but IMHO it is not inspired or the absolute word of god, but simply a history of man and his ideas and experiences. Not much different from current day channelers, each with their own version and variety. There is some truth in it, but you have to sift out the false.

I must be honest, I hadn't heard the theory that the flood was to rid the earth of hybrids.

It's entirely possible that the texts have been messed with for various agendas, but until I've studied it all thoroughly, I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt. Of course that's going to take a long time, but I'm enjoying it so far.