The Death of James V. Forrestal: Suicide or did he become one of the first victims of the cover-up?

Originally posted by Fastwalker81

In protecting the security operations of MAJESTIC, it has been necessary to [BLACKED OUT] individuals who would compromise the intelligence efforts. While distasteful [BLACKED OUT] times, the use of [BLACKED OUT] measures have been executed. The untimely death of Secretary Forrestal, was deemed necessary and regrettable.

www.majesticdocuments.com...

Other sources:

www.princeton.edu...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.dcdave.com...

keyholepublishing.com...

www.trumanlibrary.org...

[edit on 28/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

1. "In protecting the-security opera"
"to [ 18spaces ]individuals"

2. "individuals who would compromise"
"teful [ 14spaces ]t times, the"

** while the t looks like the end of the word "at," it may be the end of a different word altogether.

3. "intelligence "
"of [10sp. ] "

4. "efforts. While"
"[13 spaces ]"

Wonder what's in the spaces.

As for the belt/ sash around his neck, I find it hard to believe a career NAVY man doesn't know his simple knots. Why was the other end not connected to the radiator, whatever? Is there photographs of the belt/ sah available? Does the end not around his neck have knot scrunches on it to indicate it was once tied and pressure applied and it just came loose, is it still knotted, is there scrunchie marks along it's length indicating it were wound around someone's hand or arm and pressure applied to the overlap points of the fabric from the bodies weight pulling on it-- as though he were strangled or strangled by hanging then let go to his death?

Could the belt/ sash really be the young doctor's torn slleeve made into a long strip of cloth on site. Were the staff, or supposed staff in on it? MK Ultra routinely speaks of Agents of the CIA, etc. guised as doctor's and given hoaky names like Green, Smith, and even Raines (a play on Rains), and those documents are DeClasified official documents and not fakes.

Maybe there was no belt/ sash, but, it was a sheet as reported. I only heard of the belt/ sash angle here at this thread. I don't rule it out, but, disinformationalists abound. I think some of them are just plants to weed out who might know what.

Well, I guess that's it, unless I find something else for ya'll.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

reply to post by wylekat


There was also a Hall named after him in Groton/ New London, Ct. Which I went to for various classified training among other places. I've even had to stand guard there. I'v also met Adm. Mike Boorda when I was in Galley Week of Bootcamp before entering the Naval Intel community. he was being hounded by the other Officers and went into the kitchen to meet with the enlisted, ordering, to their dismay and some open anger- especiall, after he left, that no high ranking enlisted above PO1 and no officers were to enter the Galley, and ran all higher ups out. I will not tell what was discussed with a group of us, but, he was exhausted, panicked, and scared senseless about it. I can tell you from his own mouth he earned every medal he ever got or wore. And, he could name names of Officer's involved in the prostitute scandal-- and was going to-- and many of them were promoted and some are still in Service, having been promoted higher still. There was more, but, while I don't fear anything they could do, I kind of enjoy breathing-- just a little. Not that I care if I died right now. And torture, well, I'm an apathetic, and insane, I'll just get lost in my head. And family and friends can't be used against me-- I'm too apathetic and detached from my emotions. But, Boorda was definately 100 % not a suicide. I, and others I'm sorry I can't name, are positive. Especially since he warned that they were out to get him, and, named who they were and why.

Like a zen Budhist, all I can do is point, you either figure it out on your own or don't.
But, take a breath, drink some water, eat some dirt, watch an A bomb test video, look at all the environmental and health problems in your world, and ask yourself what these things have in common. Ask yourself, are these grounds for criminal charges against all those in charge. Is it ironic that they who know are not concerned about themselves or their loved ones, if they have the capacity to really truly love-- I don't know-- being affected as well as everyone else.

And where did they really get it from? Doesn't history of ancient myths and culture's document these things already? Here's a hint, read the Enuma Elish, the Gilgamesh Epic, the Indian Mahabaratah's, the BIBLE's story of Lot (bear in mind that Salt in hebrew also means Vapor). What kind of Salt/ Vapor? What effect does atmosphere play in Soddom's evil cloud drifting toward Gommorah, rather than the direction Lot was tipped off to go? How did the Angel really know which way was safe? And how far behind Lot was his wife really?

What has been found about the readings from sites like the one discussed in the Indian Texts? The Japanese sites? The Ancient and modern Mythical and Historical sites? How much more so these affects today, potentially, culminated with the effects of bygone years How much is blamed on sources that had nothing to do with it?

What type of energy source is the deadliest per inch of "cleaned" smoke. How safe is your food really, especially after a certain type of treatment.

What should incite people to raw anger more than anything else in the World?

Above all, take a deep breath and relax, so relaxed you can just lie down and sleep the sleep of sleeps. Have a defective kid first.

Ask yourself what deployment systems of transit, etc. can protect you from such things. Consider Roswell and the 1940's test of Irridium 115, lighter than hydrogen when a current is passed through it, heavier than lead when uncharged. Gets so hot it glows and needs a special white chalky magnesium based fiber board to protect internal components, no wings, no fins, no rudders, just movable decks and gyroscopic propulsion, take ET out of it, but, don't rule it out.

Think about the Roswell reported finding of a lightweight metal tile from the craft with a chalky white undercoating by the witnesses, especially, the land owner.

Think of ET's and UFO's as a potential hallucinary side effect. Go to deoxy.org... and find the work by Dr.s terence McKenna and Timothy Leary on the typical hallucinations associated with specific types of hallucinogens from '___' to '___', etc. and wonder if the thing I'm alluding to can have a similiar hallucinatory aspect throughout the Global Atmosphere and physical environment, consider when such things are reported and documented. Always following similiar events? I think so.

Consider if ET's and UFO's are not hallucinary aspects, but, initiating ones. I mean how else would a pilot be exposed to such things and fly fast enough to survive-- he'd have to travel in excess of the 647 mph + winds generated. Or, to traverse the Oort belt safely without being severely affected. If it takes immense amounts of lead to protect you, and even the outer walls of such a case get almost to hot to touch and one can not have a certain minimal amount of exposure to such hot spots, how much more unlikely a plane, or shuttle craft having lesser, lighter, thinner protections.

And many many more unnamed avenues, and what do you get?

Lies abounding.

The Truth is....

[edit on 29-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

reply to post by wylekat



I'm somewhat of a forger myself. If I write a signature about 40 times I pretty much nail it. Stlye, form, heads and tails of it, curvature, direction, pressure, stroke, movement and flow, lifts, placements, stalls, etc..
I don't know that I'm a master, but, I'm pretty awesome. I've forged hundreds of names in my day. The closest I ever came to illegal use was once, I stole one of my dad's check's and made it out to a local gas station for $500 worth of beer and camping supplies, food, snacks, etc. for a party with me and my freind's at a nearby river at one of the many towns I have lived at.
Anyways, the bank thought it an odd transaction for his account, so, they ran it by three of their professional analyst's, private and law enforcement, and they were stumped, curious, they sent it to the Smithsonian's Letters and Standards for handwriting analysis. The analysts there sent it back as inconclusive, they could not confirm or deny whether it was or was not written by my dad.
I'm that good anyways, because, after the bank called my dad about it and he realized he never wrote the check, he lied and said he did to protect me from prosecution. He was so shocked and impressed, I was not grounded. I've never done anything like that since, but, I still like to mimic signature's and autograph's in my ever morphing writing style.

What I noticed immediately were the r's.
After seeing all the r's, I didn't need to look further.
Forrestals r's have a flat plateau to them. The poem's r's have a flambouyancy to them which gives them a sharp rise, and, sometimes visible sometimes not, comes back on itself in a curve, before arcing down and up to form the other side of the r and going down to finish the letter.
It is not his r.

further, He write's with a curvature, as though he moves his hand along the paper and then continues writing, stops writing, moves it again, continues writing, stops, moves it again, continues writing, etc, etc..
The poem does not have such curvature affect. It looks as though the hand continues to move along the paper as it writes, which is more common.

It is not his poem. I didn't even bother to look at it any further. It is so blatant a forgwery that I, an unprofessional, could have done a better job without trying. Whoever wrote it was naive enough to have not considered handwriting analysis would even be used to confirm it. Which shows a low end professional mentality, making me all the more curious about the Guard. I'd love to see the Watch Stander's Logs for the time Forrestal was in there. I say the Guard did it. And that means he didn't act alone. Even if he did manage Solo access, how did he get to that access in the first place, not so much as the person who assigns the Watches, as the person who authorized the Guard's appointment to the Command and his placement once there which put him in position to be on the Watch roster for Foresstal. As newbies, do not get the cream of the crop placements, those are seniority based placements, with a lot of internal wheeling and dealing with duty section leaders to get them. So, then, I would now say to look at the one who assigned the watches. The duty section leader. What did the guard offer him for the placement, it must have been good. And bribery charges would be a good way to elicit his cooperation.

Originally posted by DNAlien Fusion
Talk about beating a dead horse. Yeah, were gonna figure this out now and solve the mystery like so many before us did. Geez.

...If I would have read this yesterday I would have given you a star...BUT
today in class I learned that some law student in Texas found something Madison or some founding father wrote and pointed it out....and it led to the 27th amendment.

So my friend...you and I are wrong! Someone from ATS could!

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
reply to post by wylekat

 

Anyways, the bank thought it an odd transaction for his account, so, they ran it by three of their professional analyst's, private and law enforcement, and they were stumped, curious, they sent it to the Smithsonian's Letters and Standards for handwriting analysis. The analysts there sent it back as inconclusive, they could not confirm or deny whether it was or was not written by my dad.
I'm that good anyways, because, after the bank called my dad about it and he realized he never wrote the check, he lied and said he did to protect me from prosecution.

They sent it to three of their professional analyst's private and law enforcement, did all that before they call him to check?

Again, I would say follow the Johnson family Beef Co. records, and all the financial trails of all involved and their families, to connect them where the money goes.

Then I would follow to see where the taxpayers money goes. I would look at the NSC Projects that Souers wrote Truman about. I would look at what Sec's Knox, Forrestal, LeMay, and Johnson, etc. wrote to Truman about, and, he to they.

I would look at their over-hyped disinformation about communism and the ties of the likes of Johnson Beef Co., United Fruit/ Chiquita Banana, and, other Corporate World interest's in covert US- sponsored dictatorships and activities to thwart the so called communist threat, or whatever threat of the day they coin to justify their illicit acts.

And, I would think of the Worst Global reality ever, and ask myself, how are they all structurally, unconsciously and/ or conspiratorially, consciencely, connected.

I'd read the 1949 Toronto Star articles about the hint below, and wonder what Canadian aspect of involvement could be inferred.

Especially, since Army Psychoanalist Dr. William Menninger gave an annual conference, through to May 29, 1949-- day Forrestal died, in Montreal, Canada about psychanalytical hypnosis.

During the same time Truman and, his avowed enemy, the USSR were giving Nuclear Radioactive materials, and mercury/ oxides to clean the weapons grade plutonium and uranium that the USSR was supplying to them, simultaneously, for the Canadian Nuclear Reactors. Quite a partnership for avowed Cold War enemies, don't you think?

What is the Canadian angle?

That and his authorization of Operation High Jump which was forestalled by UFO encounter's, as mentioned in an earlier post.

And no matter what, I would never forget:
HINT HINT:

The fallout created by the subsequent frenzy of atmospheric testing is projected to cause between 100,000 and half-a-million cancer fatalities by the end of the next century. And the radiation doses will go on long after that because some radionuclides, such as plutonium-239 and carbon-14, have half-lives lasting thousands of years.

Yet, these morons and liars claim officially, they have no idea what causes cancer. Got cancer, know anyone with it? Sterile/ impotent, know anyone who is? Got radiation illness or side affects, know anyone who does?
The answer to one or all is: YES!!! You do. And you know someone who does.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by Fastwalker81

CONNELLY: He thought that the same things were happening, that people were annoying him, and he felt he was under surveillance down there, he felt that he was being watched, and in other words, he was being personally persecuted. So as a result of that, we had him very quietly removed to Bethesda hospital in Washington.

I saw this line here and I thought wow, before the Internet, someone back in 1968 who was under the Cointelpro program, would have described these tactics. Today when this stuff happens we would call it Gang Stalking. I read this and I thought, this sounds like some o the stuff a target from back then would have been describing, because these types of programs were in play back then.

For those who don't know what Gang Stalking is by now, you can learn about it here, www.GangStalkingUnited.com...

Basically this sound classic, this is the way these people function, then and now. Interesting.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Harassment101]

Originally posted by DNAlien Fusion
Talk about beating a dead horse. Yeah, were gonna figure this out now and solve the mystery like so many before us did. Geez.

That's kind of negative, look at how many cold cases have been solved, by people 20, 40 years later, with a fresh perspective. It happens all the time.

Personally star and flag for me, this thread is great.

Originally posted by searching_for_truth
reply to post by Logarock

 

He was in one of the navy ships ashore. When the marines were raising the flag on top of mount suribachi, he said something like " That would mean marines for the next 500 years" You can search the net on the details of actual event and what actual words he said. It's just like he saw the future 500 years ahead huh

I did look it up before posting. Several sources say he had just come ashore.

Hey Fastwalker81,
Fabulous work sir.I have been interested in this story for many years now. Your work has me absolutely riveted.Keep it coming. In my humble opinion, James Forrestal was murdered.Hands down. My BS meter was maxing out as well.Thank you.

Sincerely,
Mark

reply to post by InterWeb


Yes.
As a matter of fact, they did.
I was in the room when he answered the phone. Hung up. And dumbfounded told me what they had done. They wanted to confirm it rather than call him and be wrong. When they could not confirm the transaction as valid or not, then, they had no alternative but to call him.

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
And Menninger is an interesting aspect. As I don't know his first name, I'll ass ume it is the Army Psychiatrist, Dr. William Menninger, chief of Army neuropsychiatry.

The Menninger from this case is indeed William C. Menninger.

The meeting then proceeded to a discussion of Dr. William C. Menninger's ...... hypnotic studies on the predominantly individual nature of color symbolism. ..... as arising in the form of hallucinatory images and ideas of drive objects, ...

Great find I didn't know about this.

I will have a look at the links you provided.

(of course, why would he have been left with a pen or pencil either, and, how did the corpsman know what he was writing? Did he discuss it with him, or did the guard rudely look over his shoulder, and old NAVY dog like Forrestal would have been a less than blunt irate about that, I would think).

These are also interesting points. There appear to be serious indications that at least part of the Willcutts report was tampered with, especially the testimony of corpsman Prise.

The first clue is the misspelling of corpsman Prise his name in the Willcutts report. His name is obviously Prise and not Price like stated in the rapport. We know this because Prise clearly spells his name "Prise" when writing in Forrestal's medical chart which is included in the report. Just a simple misspelling by the recorder or did they intend to make it hard for anybody interested to track down Prise?

I think it is unlikely his name was just misspelled by accident. Prise would have been accustomed to spelling out his name because it is spelled unusual. A second clue is his additional statement he made at the end of the testimony. The statement is about Forrestal allegedly writing the poem, but the statement is written in 3rd person form for the most part, meaning Prise refers to himself as "the navy corpsman".

I will elaborate further on this in a separate post.

Thanks for the insights.


[edit on 30/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

Originally posted by Fastwalker81
I will elaborate further on this in a separate post.

Ok this is from one of the articles on David Martin's website. I quoted the first and last part of the testimony.

The Misnamed Witness
The testimony of the witness who followed Harrison on the stand, but was relieved by him on the night of Forrestal’s death, is perhaps even more intriguing than Harrison’s, and it is also reproduced here in full:

Examined by the recorder:

Q. State your name, rate and present station.
A. Edward William Price, hospital apprentice, 339 78 55, U.S. Naval Hospital, National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, Maryland.

Neither the recorder nor the members of the board desired further to examine the witness.

The board informed the witness that he was privileged to make any further statement covering anything relating to the subject matter of the investigation which he thought should be a matter of record in connection therewith, which had not been fully brought out by the previous questioning.

The witness made the following statement:

He started reading a book at about twenty hundred and whenever the corpsman would come in the room he would turn the bed lamp off and sit down in the chair and so far as the writing I don’t know. It appeared that he was but I couldn’t say for sure.

www.dcdave.com...

In my opinion there is a possibility that this statement could have been added later, in an attempt to give credence to the poem story. See what's blatantly wrong with the statement?

In the statement Prise refers to himself as "the corpsman", but he was the one giving the statement. Futhermore he says: "as to the writing I don't know". It looks like he was answering a question but this was his closing statement, not a Q and A at that point. Very strange in my opinion.

(continued in next post)


[edit on 30/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

reply to post by Fastwalker81

Neither the recorder nor the members of the board desired further to examine this witness.

The witness said he had nothing further to state.

The witness was duly warned and withdrew.

There’s the curious matter of the misspelling of the corpsman’s name. No, this is not just another example of poor scholarship by Hoopes and Brinkley. In this case, their source, the undated, unpublished outline of a manuscript by John Osborne is verifiably correct and the Navy’s official investigation of Forrestal’s death is wrong. Every time he made an entry onto the medical chart, Exhibit 3 accompanying the Willcutts Report, he signed his name, and it is unmistakably the rare name of “Prise,” not the common name of “Price.”

Maybe this is not the trivial matter that it might seem to be. There are only two possibilities, either the name was repeatedly typed wrong by the Review Board by mistake, or it was intentionally written wrong. If it was just a mistake, the overall competence of the work is called into question. How could they get something as simple as this wrong, and if this is wrong, how much else is wrong?

And how could the mistake happen? Corpsman Prise had been on the case from the beginning. He was well known to the higher-ups involved with Forrestal’s care, and they all must have read the draft of the report. Surely they would have known that his name was not “Price,” and would have corrected the manuscript when they read it. It was hardly rushed into print, so there was plenty of time to set it right. Furthermore, the likelihood that the name would have been taken down wrong at the beginning of Prise’s testimony is very small. When he was asked to state his name, he did it either pronouncing it “Prize” or “Price.” In the first instance, hearing the strange name, the recorder would likely have asked him how it is spelled, if he did not volunteer it. In the second instance, the volunteering of the correct spelling would certainly have been virtual second nature to Mr. Prise. He would already have done it thousands of times in his life, knowing that the common assumption would be that the name is spelled like it is pronounced.

For some reason, the very existence of Prise was also left out of the account that the hospital gave to the newspapers in the wake of Forrestal’s death. The newspapers reported at the time that Harrison’s watch began at nine p.m. and lasted until six a.m., which the author, Simpson, repeated in his version of Forrestal’s last hours. Harrison’s name shows up a number of times in those early stories, but Prise’s does not.

That leaves us with the greater likelihood that the name was misspelled intentionally, and the implications of that are quite sinister, indeed. It is a technique that is used by corrupt investigative authorities when they want to make it difficult for others to track down witnesses, witnesses whose testimony has been misrepresented. There was a classic example of it, among others, in the case of the death of Deputy White House Counsel Vincent Foster in the Bill Clinton administration. Investigators reported that a Patrick Nolton from Washington, DC, saw Foster’s car in the parking lot of Fort Marcy Park, Virginia, when Nolton stopped off for an impromptu urination. It took a foreign reporter, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the Telegraph of London to get past the obfuscation:

I grabbed the Fiske Report and flicked to page 28.... The key passage had been expurgated....

"Finding this witness was no easy matter. His name was redacted in the FBI documents. There was a brief mention of him in a Park Police “incident report”: a Patrick Nolton, with a Washington telephone number 296-2339. But nobody at the number had ever heard of him–it appeared to be a doctor’s clinic–and it soon became clear that there was no such person as Patrick Nolton in the District of Columbia, and never had been. The Park Police had done a first-rate job of “laundering” the identity of the witness.... (The Secret Life of Bill Clinton: The Unreported Stories, Regnery Publishing, 1997, p. 159.)"

But Evans-Pritchard, using a bit of detective work, managed to find Patrick Knowlton and interview him. It turned out that he had seen a reddish-brown, older model Honda than the light gray Honda that belonged to Foster, and he was quite sure of the matter, and other parts of what he had told the FBI were also misreported.

“Patrick Knowlton is convinced that the FBI did not misunderstand him when they wrote up his 302 statement the next day. He believes they knowingly falsified it.” (p. 162)

If any part of Prise’s testimony is knowingly falsified, what part might it be? My candidate is that last volunteered part about Forrestal reading a book and perhaps writing. The passage doesn’t make much sense, but it did manage to get the suggestion on the record that Forrestal might have been doing some transcribing from a book at some time on that fateful evening–although the book seemed to have disappeared.

Whether or not this speculation is correct, the failure of the poetry book to turn up anywhere in the testimony of the review board witnesses suggests strongly that the author Simpson is correct:

"The whole overplayed Sophocles-poem angle was nothing but a red herring that effectively threw the public off the scent of the significant fact that the prolific Forrestal had written no suicide note before he met his abrupt and violent death. (p. 18)"

www.dcdave.com...

Interesting in my opinion. Just a simple misspelling or was there a more sinister reason?


[edit on 30/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
Wonder what's in the spaces.

Me too.

What's also interesting, but doesn't have anything to do with this case, is the handwritten remark in the top left corner.

It says: "Put in Angleton's yellow files". In case the document is authentic I would love to get my hands on those "yellow files".

www.majesticdocuments.com...

As for the belt/ sash around his neck, I find it hard to believe a career NAVY man doesn't know his simple knots. Why was the other end not connected to the radiator, whatever? Is there photographs of the belt/ sah available? Does the end not around his neck have knot scrunches on it to indicate it was once tied and pressure applied and it just came loose, is it still knotted, is there scrunchie marks along it's length indicating it were wound around someone's hand or arm and pressure applied to the overlap points of the fabric from the bodies weight pulling on it-- as though he were strangled or strangled by hanging then let go to his death?

The pictures of the sash also "went missing". The sash is mentioned in the testimonies from various witnesses though.

From the Willcutts report:

The sash to his bathrobe was tied tightly around his neck.

When the doctor shone the light you could see one end was tied around his neck and the other end extended over toward the left part of his head. It was not broken in any way and didn't seem to be tied on to anything. I looked to see whether he had tried to hang himself and see whether a piece of cord had broken off. It was all in one piece except it was tied around his neck.

The sash was intact so it's almost impossible the other end was attached to a fixed point, as the sash would have broken under the weight of James Forrestal, instead of the knot "giving way".

There was also no damage found to his cervical vertebrae. Another clue that he probably did not hang himself.

They could have easily narrowed the possibilities if they took the sash and checked if it was long enough to be tied around Forrestal's neck and then to the radiator below.

But it appears they felt that was not necessary...


[edit on 30/1/09 by Fastwalker81]

It could be that the Corpsman was referring to himself in the third person. it is not uncommon for one straight out of bootcamp to continue the habit (Ie: "Sergeant! The Private, respectfully requests to relieve himself. Sergent!") You begin with the superior's Title, never the last name-- as you are not drinking buddies and they are quick to remind you-- and never the First, middle, or Nickname, unless so relieved or instructed to to, such as by the Command to speak freely. Once, you leave boot camp and enter your Command, the rules typically relax on the matter and last names are incorporated as a means of designation (Ie: "Petty Officer Smith," as opposed to, "Petty Officer Green," whereby, "Petty Officer," would be confusing. Or, "Gunnery Sergeant Smith," as oppsed to, "Gunney's Mate Smith," whereby, just, "Smith," would be confusing.)
That he did not say "Corpsman Prise," or, "the Corpsman Prise," rules this possibility out, as a learned behavioral speech. While it is not impossible that he just referred to himself as, "the Corpsman," does not mean that he was not referring to himself with the assumption that all present knew to whom he was referring, or, could easily be discovered from the record of the case. And that he was not asked to clarify was just a trivial error of the Court or proof that his assumption was correct, whether or not they were thinking of the same definition of the "Corpsman," or, just assumed themselves to be on the same page.
If not, then that leaves only the possibility that, "the Corpsman," is plural and not singular. As I've explained with the use of no less than two watches, this makes the most sense. That one guards story was not used to corroborate the other's and vice versa, and not incorporated into the records of the case, as such, leaves certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt that the case was deliberately misleading and rigged upon the command of either the Military Judge and the JAG's Office, or those Superior to him.

The mispelling of Price, seems like a misnomer, a trivial defect in the pleading of the case and should be ignored. Prise probably paid the clerk, who annotates on a ten key type in shorthand anyways and just failed to look at the records while swamped in work, no mind. Most people ignore the Clerk. And the Clerk rarely interrupts the case for information they can obtain easily later when they transcribe their notes, even when they don't. As we know the correct spelling of Prise and not Price or Prize, then, it is really not of any real relevance-- unless we are considering the Clerk a suspect to a cover up as well, and I doubt we have enough information to take that route just yet. So, while worthy of note, and maybe, later reconsideration, I would not use it to merit questioning the validity of the entire record just yet, and would let the record stand on it's own merit for now, if only in good faith, until perhaps more information came to light to suggest the non credability of the Clerk.
I would do a concurrent jurisdiction case plan for this case and see where it led me. One case file would be from the vantage that the record is completely correct. The other would be to assume that the record is completely false. And within each, I would do the same for each witness and evidence, etc. That way whether the record is in whole or in parts only correct or false, I would conclusively discover which was which.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

This is interesting. Googling "Price, Bethesda" gave me 2 profiles for
A. Edward [William] Price Hospital Apprentice U.S. Naval Hospital Bethesda , Maryland No membership or affiliation information is available.
No certification information is available. No education information is available. No biography information is available. It was compiled from 2 sources:

Who Killed James Forrestal - [Cached Version]
Published on: 7/16/2006 Last Visited: 12/1/2007
A. Edward William Price, hospital apprentice, 339 78 55, U.S. Naval Hospital, National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, Maryland.

Who Killed James Forrestal: www.dcdave.com...

CACHED VERSION: cache.zoominfo.com... age_last_updated=12%2f1%2f2007+10%3a48%3a08+AM&firstName=A.&lastName=Price

Who Killed James Forrestal - [Cached Version]
Last Visited: 6/25/2007
A. Edward William Price, hospital apprentice, 339 78 55, U.S. Naval Hospital, National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, Maryland.
...
Surely they would have known that his name was not "Price," and would have corrected the manuscript when they read it.It was hardly rushed into print, so there was plenty of time to set it right.Furthermore, the likelihood that the name would have been taken down wrong at the beginning of Prise's testimony is very small.When he was asked to state his name, he did it either pronouncing it "Prize" or "Price."In the first instance, hearing the strange name, the recorder would likely have asked him how it is spelled, if he did not volunteer it.In the second instance, the volunteering of the correct spelling would certainly have been virtual second nature to Mr. Prise.He would already have done it thousands of times in his life, knowing that the common assumption would be that the name is spelled like it is pronounced.

Who Killed James Forrestal: www.dcdave.com...

CAHED VERSION: cache.zoominfo.com... 2f2007+8%3a30%3a58+PM&firstName=A.&lastName=Price

Which is the source used in the OP. However it is not Claimed. It may be claimed at Zoominnfo: www.zoominfo.com...

Odd that one would create a Profile in Prise's name, but, not bother to claim it. How would one even create such a Profile and not put in the info needed to create a profile which would lay claim to it. But, the old and new pages may be insightful. Just to see what's been added or deleted, I suppose.

it's probably nothing.

What is probably something is Dr. Menninger's work with colors and drive objects with psychoanalytical hypnosis. The colors being Red and Gold, the Drive objects being Book and Ajax Poem, particularly the word "nightingale" (Ie: Florence Nightingale) Night being the trigger and in Gale being the response. Since Night effects not only a color but an emotional association with depression, longing, want, despair, void, emptiness, loss, tragedy, SUICIDE, nothingness, release, etc. While in Gale refers to being in a Gale. Or a Driving Wind. It was Night, he jumped or was thrown-- I'm thinking jumped under hypnotic influence (Ie: the claim that it can't be used to drive one man to kill oneself or another was a blatant lie), into a wind (or, gale)
I get this from Prise's testimony : "The book was bound in red leather and decorated " I'd be interested in seeing the decoration's and symbols on his copy of Sophocles.
Not any copy, Forrestal's May 29, 1949 original book. I'd like to see his writing utensil's too. If the handwriting is Forrestal's, it guarantees that the differnce in style, form, technique, etc. was the result of a split psyche. Such as you would find with Montauk, Monarch, and Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) victim's

That would call the Guard's Doctor's and their Staff into question, and would point directly to his Visitor's and their fellow member's of power. it would also call into play Henry Forrestal's true role and cause for claim of murder. It could be a disinformation tactic, as, Henry could have been used against Forrestal in a "good cop" aspect to forced psyche split's. Satanic cult families and the like are notorious for these dual role lifestyles and techniques. His brother may well have been complicit in his murder. Whic would point to an orchestrated upbringing. I would look not only at Johnson's families financial interests over the generation's before, during, and after Johnson's time, but also, every one of his visitor's Dr.'s Guard's, and their staff. Even, Henry Forrestal is suspect as far as I'm concerned.
That would also include Symington, LeMay, Truman, and anyone else in the areas he had contact, their friends and families, and how they are interconnected. It point's to Washington having a Cultic heritage.

Remember, there weren't just Quaker's here, there were Shaker's too, and some, hid among the others. Hint, call a Quaker a Mover, or refer to Shaking as Moving, and maybe they are opposite's or fundamentally the same. Then think of the arrogance of the Washington, "Mover's and Shaker's."

[edit on 30-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

[edit on 30-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

What "errand" did the Corpsman Harrison have to run?

Interesting that Forrestal was instrumental in integrating the NAVY, and, the Guard on duty was a Robert Wayne Harrison, as, typically, that is a black man's first, middle, and last name. It's common enough that I know a few Robert Wayne's and Robert Wayne Harrison's which are black. There are even streets named Harrison which were named after prominant black figure's. Could be a side effort to derail the integration effort by shifting the blame for the innefectual guarding or suspected murder of a high profile white man onto the head and hands of a black man. I wouldn't discount the racial angle.

What race is Harrison?

Who was the "young doctor" Prise had tried to warn?

Could this be "proof" if it is factual, whether the rest of the account is overall fabricated, that a Jr. Dr. was Acting Supervisor on Duty. And were his ripped sleeves the murder weapon, and if Prise lied was he accomplise to murder, lying about how they were ripped?

What did Prise try to "warn" him about?

If not lying.

What did Prise really mean by; "It was my one big chance?"

A job or the murder?

This might sound persuasive to the uncritical reader. But notice what’s missing. We hear nothing from the people in the position to know, the naval corpsman and the doctor who were on duty there on the 16th floor at the time of the death. Interestingly, Hoopes and Brinkley even withhold their names, as though they are afraid that someone might track them down and find out what they saw and heard that fateful night. We also hear nothing from the nurse who was supposed to be in charge of that floor that night. Instead, we get a psychiatrist, who later worked for the supervising psychiatrist who was in Montreal at the time of the fall and an “intuitive” naval corpsman who, by his own words here, had left for the night well before the fall occurred.

Confirm's my theory of an administrative desk staffed by a Nurse (I'll bank a "buddy" medical staff member was there also, as per regulations)

Confirm's, also, that the Dr. on duty was a Jr. stand- in, as Dr. Raines was, in fact, in Montreal, Canada, as Dr. Menninger was giving his presentation of Psychoanalytic Hypnosis, at the Annual Montreal, Canada Psychanalyst's Seminar. Which ran all that week. As Dr. Raine's was at the Seminar, I can easily conclude that all of Forrestal's Sr. Dr.'s were present, also. Therefore, all that week they had no clue what Forrestal's actual Mental State was that week, other than what inexperienced Jr.'s told them. That makes their Testimonies otherwise, Perjuries Under Oath, and should be dismissed. What's more, they would have no actual knowledge of the Crime scene or the Sophocles Book or the Poetry. If they did, then, how? Remote Viewing Technology? Not improbable, they would have had access to Technologies, not commercially available. Plus, advanced "bugging" Technology.

I'll even bet that the Dr.s at the Seminar gave their own talks and research on the subject of Psychoanalytical Hypnosis. Not only were they distanced from the crime, but, they may also had included Forrestal as a Test Case and were, maybe, monitoring the results, safely, from afar.

Odd, to not leave one experienced Dr. in charge of such a high profile patient. Can you say Medical Negligence and Malpractice? What's more, it makes me wonder, I could be wrong, are Dr.'s Menninger and Raine's one and the same person. It is not uncommon for high profile people to alter or change their names. Just look at Celebrities.

The names being withheld of the attending Jr. guard and Dr. and Nurse, as the Sr. Nurses would no doubt be in attendance at the Montreal, Canada Annual Seminar, as well. They work as a Dr.s right hand and are instrumental in all they do. It stands to reason, they'd need a working knowledge of what the Dr.'s were doing. Regardless, even if the Nurse's remained. All else were Jr.'s. They would want to sit on that to avoid all the Lawsuits they'd be guilty of. That and it could be a cover- up. Or both.

BTW:

Evidences weren't lost.

All Logs, Records, Evidence's, etc. Go through a specific armed chain of dual guard command which secures it in a dual guarded vault with Log's which themselves are dual signed and guarded and vaulted themselves under an armed dual guard sign in and dual guard vaulted system. A Captain cannot even access his personal Command safe without a dual log dual key system, usually the CO has the XO and the Xo has his Jr. The COB has the Yeoman, etc. Only compartmentalized vaults and safe's can be accessed by a single key or combo but the one has the key, the other has the combo and a witness must be present from opening through replacement and closing. They lost nothing, that is a lie. 100%

Sorry about all the edit's. I'm not hijacking the thread, I hope. I just have alot of questions and ideas. It's a good mystery. And I wonder how far disconnected from Mike's- he asked us to just call him Mike, the habit just kinda stuck, (Adm. Mike Boorda's) case it is.

The Prise accounts which do not mention the Relief (or Co- Guarding) by, Harrison and Prise, are really inconsistant. Either, Prise was in his bunk at the time of death, or, he wasn't.

As they list Dr. Deen as the attending Physician, I would call that into question, as, Dr. Deen was no doubt at the Montreal, Canada Annual Seminar all week and on May 29, 1949 of that week, keeping him far from the scene.

If my Theory is true. Then the whole account, official or otherwise, should be completely discarded. If the Dr.s were all in attendance at Montreal, and, given the subject of the Seminar, even, without the substance of the Seminar, then, what you are looking at is a Bona Fide Murder and Conspiracy at the Highest Levels to Cover it up, making all involved from Low to High, Accessories to Conspiracy and Murder, before, during, and, after the fact. And the Guards and the names of the doctor's and the Record's- Medical, Legal, etc. can be easily construed as Forgery's and False or Intentionally Misleading.

Otherwise, Ommission of Names was to Secure the Investigation and Protect the Witnesses.

The Attendance Records of the Montreal, Canada Annual Psycho Analysts Assoc.'s Seminar for 1949 will confirm or deny all attendees and participants present.

If all Dr.'s, including, Deen, are Present/ Accounted for, then, you have a Positive Murder and Conspiracacy.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

If this was murder he must have aggravated more than just some powerful person. Sounds like a consortium.

They could have killed him anywhere to shut him up. Rather they took the time to put him in the nut house in affect casting questions on all he stood for, his opinions and views.

The answer to why could be discovered by looking in to his opinions, writings if their were any, people and views he had problems with etc.

Did he really say that "they are here and we cant do anything about it"?

Originally posted by Logarock
If this was murder he must have aggravated more than just some powerful person. Sounds like a consortium.

They could have killed him anywhere to shut him up. Rather they took the time to put him in the nut house in affect casting questions on all he stood for, his opinions and views.

The answer to why could be discovered by looking in to his opinions, writings if their were any, people and views he had problems with etc.

Did he really say that "they are here and we cant do anything about it"?

By "They" He may have been referring to the Nazi's or the Prussian (German) overall influence on America and the World.

Think of Operation Paperclip.

Think of German's dumping money into Argentina and finding refuge there at Amnesty International, and, all Amnesty International's-- that's what Amnesty is.

Think of UFO's and ET's as Anti Gravitational Devices and Nazi OcCultism Related Technologies and Engineering.

Think of Operation High Jump, or rather, Hyjump and their being thwarted by, well, Nazi's at the pole.

Dub these things as Communism and UFO's to keep people in the dark and divided.

Think of his discovery of notes on plans for Korea-- German concepts.

Think of The History of Education of Children and the Engineering of Individuals and Society-- German ideals used even today.

Think of US- Soviet covert Alliances even though they were supposed enemies, having German related interests (Ie: US gave USSR 2/3 of Nazi aircraft).

Think of Biological Warfare, Diseases, and Sterilization-- German work.

Think of covert projects to control and structure Nation's and the World-- German ideals.

Think of Sugar as the oldest trafficked drug in the World and the Wealth of all the other trafficked drugs-- German Secret Societies, ties, and links.

Think of Aluminum and it's by product, toxic sodium flouride, think of flouridated water, think of autism, brain damage, ostheoperosis-- German projects.

Think of mental illnesses and psychological programming-- German sciences.

Think of Psy or Phy anything: Psyche, Psychic, Psycho, Physio, Physic-- major German advancement's.

Think of Radiation sickness-- result of German ingenuity.

Think of anything the elites have achieved or anything that has been done and ask what did the German's have to do with it.

Be it science, medicine, technology, education, economics, finance, etc.

Then think of Machiavelli 101 and the subsequent German Helgian Theory to cause the conflict- resolve the conflict to achieve a desired result.

Think of all the money funneled to Jews/ Anti- Jews; Communists/ Anti- Communists; Terrorist's/ Anti- terrorist's; Drug trafficker's/ Anti- Drug Trafficker's; UFO's/ Non- UFO's; pick some thing/ anti- that thing.

Think of four classes:

The Know It All class- the Elite;

the Educated Class- leaders and the Powers That Be, the Ruling Class, etc.;

the Semi- Educated Class- Doctor's, Lawyer's, Professionals, etc.;

and the Low Educated Class- taught to be Obedient, Loyal, or otherwise compliant to the higher Classes.

You'll begin to see the ride we are being taken on.

And, I think Forrestal did, too

Isn't it interesting that the President before Truman, died of cancer and a stroke. And Truman/ Johnson and Co. were there. Forrestal's predecessor dies of a heart attack, and Truman/ Johnson and Co. are there. Johnson replaces Truman as President, and, beats Goldwater by a massacre margin.

Natural. Maybe. Naturally deliberate. Maybe.

Think of conspiracies within conspiracies under One Umbrella Conspiracy.

Total and Absolute Control of the World by Natural (Illuminati) vs. Ordered (Oligarchy) Government. At War with one another.

They say follow the Money. True enough. But, I'd follow the Geneologies behind the Money. I'm just saying. Geneaologies are more telling.

I myself can trace my lineage to King Xerxes of Medes.

And Consortium doesn't cut it.

Look at the year's in the 1940's alone, at...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...to get a better idea of what he may have been privy to. Read the whole thing to have a better grasp of the real world as he probably saw it, if only large pieces of it. Think of those around him. I wonder, did he come from the same background they did? Men like Oliver North, Mike Boorda, etc. Seem to come from humble origins and when confronted with the relearning of everything they were ever taught to believe, they don't conform to it or accept it as readily as most inducted to it do. You have to be pretty neutral, objective, and apathetic. I suppose that men like Forrestal and Boorda weren't.

I wouldn't doubt that, Mike, that is, Adm. Mike Boorda, had similiar concerns. All I can do is point. I can't say one way or the other. Think of a multitude rather than a singularity and tie those knots on his belt/ sash and it may well lead to the knot around Forrestal's neck.

Deny Ignorance-- [PMP%ttIOI]



[edit on 31-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]