Why will the West not stand up to Israel?

This is not an Israel bashing thread, nor is it a pro-Hamas thread, so try and see it in that light and I would like people to please stay civil and respectful when giving your opinion for the West's constant support for Israel despite numerous events where they were clearly in violation of human rights laws. Israel also obviously realizes it acts with clear immunity as they don't even step down when the UN Security Council asks for a ceasefire.

My opinion is that there are numerous issues involved here:

1) Collective guilt for the extreme human rights violations during WWII
2) Collective buying into the concept that the Jews are God's chosen nation and therefore deserve haloed status; and
3) I think the force that Israel has amassed through the permission and assistance of the West has made it important for the safety of the planet not to stir Israel to world aggression. With all their nuclear armament they have the potential to threaten mankind's very existence on this planet.

Just a few quotes:
"No American President can stand up to Israel."

These words came from feisty Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations (1967-1970) and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (1970-1974). Moorer was, perhaps, the last independent-minded American military leader.

Admiral Moorer knew what he was talking about. On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked the American intelligence ship, USS Liberty, killing 34 American sailors and wounding 173. The Israelis even strafed the life rafts, machine-gunning the American sailors leaving the stricken ship.

Apparently, the USS Liberty had picked up Israeli communications that revealed Israel's responsibility for the Six Day War. Even today, history books and the majority of Americans blame the conflict on the Arabs."

Roberts

"Whether the American-Israeli alliance stems from sentiment, political realism, or the machinations of the lobby, has it been a success-in its own terms? When Mearsheimer and Walt ask if there are really strategic imperatives on the American side for ''unwavering support" of Israel, that is at least worth discussing as a hypothesis. But it's scarcely more fascinating than the question of whether such support has been to the long-term benefit of Israel.

Bolstered by American aid, successive Israeli governments tried to strengthen their settlements on the West Bank and in Gaza, the policy Friedman calls insane. Ariel Sharon at last gave up the dream of a Greater Israel, including his promise to remain in Gaza ''for Zionist reasons." And now Ehud Olmert, when he has formed his new government, will withdraw from most of the West Bank. Might not much blood and treasure have been saved if Israel had been obliged to make those choices years ago?

In one of their most contentious passages, Mearsheimer and Walt suggest that ''Israel was becoming a strategic burden" by the time of the first Gulf War. Then in 2003, history repeated itself, they say, as ''Israel was eager for the US to attack Iraq. ...The Israeli government and pro-Israel groups in the United States have worked together to shape the administration's policy towards Iraq, Syria, and Iran, as well as its grand scheme for reordering the Middle East.""

www.boston.com...





[edit on 27-1-2009 by Mynaeris]

1) Israel are not doing anything directly to 'the west'.
2) The majority of Western countries have pro Israeli Jews/Christians in positions of power.
3) Jewish bankers & Investors.
4) The "Holocaust"

reply to post by Dermo


That’s true but too simple
The west is predominantly Jew/Christian. Islam has made much slower progress into the western world.

Also unlike their Islamic cousins the Jews have been living in the west for centuries so they have family ties and business. Many in the west have Jewish friends and some Jewish family ties. Unlike Islamic/Muslims Jews have been able to adapt or assimilate into western cultures while Muslims have been finding it much harder to acclimate to western virtues and ideas.

So it seems that it’s not really a races issue more of a cultural issue. Israel/ Jews have been Able to work and prosper in the west and the Muslim cannot or will not acclimate into western societies and make those same ties.


[edit on 27-1-2009 by SLAYER69]

So nobody thinks my third possibility has any value?

"3) I think the force that Israel has amassed through the permission and assistance of the West has made it important for the safety of the planet not to stir Israel to world aggression. With all their nuclear armament they have the potential to threaten mankind's very existence on this planet."

Hmmm.. yeah, this is a hard one..

Let's see, your question should read: Why does the West support Israel instead of the "other side".

Well... hmmm... Maybe because the "other side" supports murder an terrorism and would love to spread that lifestyle to the West??

Yeah, maybe that could have something to do with it. I don't think that is to difficult to grasp and no conspiracy theories are needed.

For America at least, I think a lot of it is tied into religious beleifs... so many of us are Christians here and have that "The nation of Israel is God's chosen people and we must protect them" mindset.

They think that letting Israel be attacked willbring about end times, or at least make God look unfavorably on our own country.

Not everyone beleives this, but I think enough peopel do that it has some bearing on politics.

reply to post by infolurker


Am I to take that as an unbiased opinion? So you are saying that all other arab nations have the same problem with nations other than Israel?I I am starting to think that your opinion may be part of those that demonize arabs.

Originally posted by asmeone2
For America at least, I think a lot of it is tied into religious beleifs... so many of us are Christians here and have that "The nation of Israel is God's chosen people and we must protect them" mindset.

They think that letting Israel be attacked willbring about end times, or at least make God look unfavorably on our own country.

Not everyone beleives this, but I think enough peopel do that it has some bearing on politics.

You raise a very valid point if Israel is God's chosen people - who do the rest belong to? By the same token what kind of God would have created all these billions of people so that he can choose less than 2% of the world's population as those that he really cares about.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by Mynaeris]

Originally posted by Mynaeris

Originally posted by asmeone2
For America at least, I think a lot of it is tied into religious beleifs... so many of us are Christians here and have that "The nation of Israel is God's chosen people and we must protect them" mindset.

They think that letting Israel be attacked willbring about end times, or at least make God look unfavorably on our own country.

Not everyone beleives this, but I think enough peopel do that it has some bearing on politics.

You raise a very valid point if Israel is God's chosen people - who do the rest belong to? By the same token what kind of God would have created all these billions of people so that he can choose less than 2% of the world's population as those that he really cares about.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by Mynaeris]

If Israel is really God's chosen people and that is the kind of behavior that he condones, then I do not think I want to follow that god...

because there is nothing to stand up to, Israel is doing exactly what it is meant to do, cause pro western instability in an oil rich region.

The reason that the west won't ever stand up to Israel is that we need a pro west entry into the middle east at all costs.

After WWI when the Ottoman Empire was crushed, the middle east was divided up among powers in the west. Arab countries quickly threw out the westerners occupying their land and then is when the whole region became unstable. Warlords quickly divided up lands according to ancient traditions. This is exactly what happened after the fall of Rome and how Europe was divided up into the respective countries we see today.

Israel was commissioned by the UN as a inroad into Arab politics. It was also the west's final assault on the mid east to finish off capturing the "Holy Land" a goal of the medieval crusades.

We won't ever stand up to Israel, because we want that inroad.

reply to post by whatukno


Star for you WUK, I have long beleived that our involvment with Israel was just an excuse to poke around this oily region.

Why should the West do anything except help Israel? Israel would live in peace with all of her neighbors. They are not the ones who use suicide bombers and terorists.All arabs hate Israel. Especially all Muslims do Why? It has to do with religion! No matter how most non religious people look at this situation, it can never be looked at without considering the religious implications.

There are no such people as Palastinans(sp). They all were kicked out of places like Jordan, Syria, Lebanon etc. This is nothing but religious hatred on the part of all arabs.

When the Jews returned to Israel, as in 1948, they were returning to a homeland that belonged to them for eons. They believe(according to the Torah) this land was given to them.

Israel is the west's largest military installation in the middle east.

second line.

Originally posted by infolurker

Well... hmmm... Maybe because the "other side" supports murder an terrorism and would love to spread that lifestyle to the West??

Most brainwashed and generalizing answer ever.

EVER!