Turn in anyone you suspect to possess illegal firearm?

Originally posted by Retseh

I understand you being defensive, but you have to understand that while many in the UK hold up the US as an example of what happens when a society has too many guns, we tend to hold up the UK as an example of what happens when you have an unarmed populace.

I don't think I am being defensive. I do wonder what you mean by the UK being an example of what happens when you have an unarmed populace. I am no less "free" or empowered than the average American (or German, come to that). Granted, I cannot shoot someone stealing my plant pots, but then he cannot shoot back - or shoot me before he tries.

My point is that the US and Britain have different values with regard to firearms and you cannot draw any parallels, so don't. The US has a unique firearm culture which is a world apart with Britain. Suggesting that Brits are somehow disadvantaged by our state of nakedness is silly because we are not.

Regards

reply to post by paraphi


Well, off hand, you have orders not to lock your sheds so the theifs dont have to break anything to get what's inside. You have little camps set up to re-train habitual offending teens and adults on how to behave like a civilized individual.
You have parents frantically buying up "stab-proof" clothing and backpacks so their kids can go through a day of school without being stabbed.

I'm sure I've forgotten stuff but I'm not in a position right now for links and searches.

Anyway, keep to the UK and we'll keep to the US. I thought all this "foreign intervention" stuff bothered most of you anyway?

Originally posted by paraphi

I do wonder what you mean by the UK being an example of what happens when you have an unarmed populace. I am no less "free" or empowered than the average American (or German, come to that). Granted, I cannot shoot someone stealing my plant pots, but then he cannot shoot back - or shoot me before he tries.

Suggesting that Brits are somehow disadvantaged by our state of nakedness is silly because we are not.

Well you see there's the rub, many of us think you are disadvantaged, and I believe we can prove it.

Ok, so you don't believe you are disadvantaged by not having a ready supply of firearms, and that opinion was indeed prevalent in the UK in 1938. That "I'm alright Jack" attitude changed very rapidly when the UK began begging, and yes I do mean begging, US citizens to send them privately owned rifles to defend against German invasion. Something we gladly did. Note - that was personally owned rilfes, not government rifles.

I'd say that made you fairly disadvantaged back in 1938.

Of course you sit there now confident in the fairness of your judiciary, and the trustworthiness of your politicians and near neighbors in Europe. Such a calamity could never happen again, that's all history now isn't it, so you'll never need guns again, right?

Well you'll excuse us if we smile a little at that one, you see, we've heard it all before.

You're like the guy who laughs at his neighbor for stockpiling food in preparation for a disaster, and then sits on his front porch begging for scraps when the hurricane hits.

And sooner or later one will.

whats to say they dont have two, the cops come and take one, that still leaves them with one to shoot you for ratting them out.

I live in Florida and I recently went to a gun show and absolutely could not believe my eyes there were so many people buying guns and ammunition it looked as though they were getting ready for WW111.

There were tens of thoudands of gun buyers packed into the the Civic Center and you could not hardly move to see the weapons of every model, caliber, color and size. Maybe we learned a lesson from Great Britain in them losing their right to bear arms.

Has anyone found any links to the audio of this radio message? I'd love to have it to send to my local talk radio personality. He'd love this.. he's very pro-gun.

Spot on. Here in the Uk this idea of everyone secretly phoning some hot line to snitch on their neighbours about anything from benefit fraud to Illegally downloaded DVDs is getting ridiculous. Every other advert on TV asks us to grass up neighbours for not having their car taxed, not having a TV license, counterfeit goods and even for commiting the henious crime of allowing your partner to stay the night!
Isn't this how Nazi Germany started?

reply to post by amari



Did they give instructions on how you can identify an illegal firearm?

We still have the right to bear arms in this country so unless you know that the person stole it or committed a crime with it; how would you know it was illegal?

For anyone that thinks that it is okay for the government to take away the right of the American citizen to bear arms I want you to do a quick bit of research on countries were they have allowed this to happen. Then ask yourself do you really in light of what is happening in this world today to have this happen to America.

Your government is not going to protect you. Unless you think that dragging people off the streets and placing them in FEMA camps is going protecting you until they get around to sorting out who is legit and who isn’t is protecting you.

Come on people before it is too late. Take care of yourself, your own and your community. If you can’t do it by yourself then figure out a way to do without it because your government is not your friend and nothing is going to be “given” to you without coming with one hell of a price tag.

I am not anti-government I am pro-people. I am not a conspiracy theorist I am a realist.
I listen to what everyone has to say but I believe what I see and when I person shows me what he/she is I believe them.

I know that you can’t eat off a field that has been torched to ashes tomorrow but with time, patience, a little water, a pulling of the stray weed when it appears and an occasional blessing you will eat in the seasons to come.

\Here in the Uk this idea of everyone secretly phoning some hot line to snitch on their neighbours about anything from benefit fraud to Illegally downloaded DVDs is getting ridiculous. Every other advert on TV asks us to grass up neighbours for not having their car taxed, not having a TV license, counterfeit goods and even for commiting the henious crime of allowing your partner to stay the night!
Isn't this how Nazi Germany started?\

It isnt. but it is one of the first steps in "changing regime" strategy.
create crisis and turn masses against each other, make them susceptible and inform on their neighbours...
So, be aware and preserve your moral.
if its already goign on, you wont stop it, but you cn sabotage this, every person individually.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Well, off hand, you have orders not to lock your sheds so the theifs dont have to break anything to get what's inside. You have little camps set up to re-train habitual offending teens and adults on how to behave like a civilized individual.
You have parents frantically buying up "stab-proof" clothing and backpacks so their kids can go through a day of school without being stabbed.

Not sure what you have been reading, but the UK is not as crime-ridden as you are trying to make out.

Comparing stats is fraught with difficulties and interpretation so I am not going down that road (esp. country vrs country), but I will point out that the murder rate in the USA per capita is quite a bit higher than the UK.

Regards

Regards

Read this about the ammunition that you purchase and possess.

Fable
Do not be fooled about that beautiful little snake on the ground talking to you. The snake says have no fear for I will not bite as long as you are looking directly at me. You reach down to pet that pretty snake and he bites you.

You said you would not bite me, but yet you bit me what is up with that? The snake said, when you reached down to pet me you turned your head for a second. So what I said. Remember the snake said, I would not bite you as long as you were looking directly at me but you turned your head for a second.

BEWARE

www.snopes.com...

[edit on 28-1-2009 by amari]

Originally posted by Russi
\Here in the Uk this idea of everyone secretly phoning some hot line to snitch on their neighbours about anything from benefit fraud to Illegally downloaded DVDs is getting ridiculous. Every other advert on TV asks us to grass up neighbours for not having their car taxed, not having a TV license, counterfeit goods and even for commiting the henious crime of allowing your partner to stay the night!
Isn't this how Nazi Germany started?\

It isnt. but it is one of the first steps in "changing regime" strategy.
create crisis and turn masses against each other, make them susceptible and inform on their neighbours...
So, be aware and preserve your moral.
if its already goign on, you wont stop it, but you cn sabotage this, every person individually.

I think it's a genuine effort on the part of the government to get us so riled up watching and spying on each other that we don't see what the government bods are doing to us. Seems to me they are ever so slowly tightening the noose, creating so much hatred and anger, almost begging us to lose our tempers and start rioting and breaking the law. Then of course they'll roll on in with the riot police, quell the riot and then start passing new laws which will probably stop us gathering in crowds or will stop the right to demonstrate.

Since im from Australia and can only own non semi auto/auto firearms.

A question for the seppos, oh sorry I mean Americans.

What would happen in the USA if you were restricted from buying semi auto or fully auto firearms and handguns?

Civil war?

[edit on 29-1-2009 by TheKingsVillian]

reply to post by TheKingsVillian


If banning their sale involved confiscation then an armed revolt would have to occur sooner than later. If banning their sale "grandfathered" all existing semi--auto arms into legality then the prices of those left would skyrocket overnight just as the prices for arms and accessories under Clintons AWB did and just as they currently are just under threat of another AWB.

Would this ban have a sunset date like the first AWB? Would it be written as permanent?
As is a ban on a speciffic firearms action would be on par with D.C.'s handgun ban that was shot down by the SCOTUS in that banning any specific type of firearm is so far beyond unconstitutional that the most unconstitutional government the US has ever seen wont tolerate it.

Personally, I think the mere mentioning of any bans/restrictions/registrations/infringements on any one of our rights is worthy of being dropped off on a deserted island with a bottle of water and a gun with a single bullet.

I'd like to see a civil war of sorts in my lifetime. The Tree of Liberty needs to feed.

I think Aussies are more of the "who cares" type.

Two points
A) Our guns.
B) Voting to be a Republic.

I just hope you are not faced with a false flag operation like us poor Aussies were "The Port Arthur Massacre". After that guns were being destroyed left right and center.
I was in the USA for a short time in 96, no one that I spoke to about it even knew about it. I just took it as "meh the US is more interested in itself".

en.wikipedia.org...

The Port Arthur massacre and its consequences

The Port Arthur massacre in 1996 transformed gun control legislation in Australia. Six weeks after the Dunblane massacre in Scotland[11], this mass killing at the notorious former convict prison at Port Arthur horrified the Australian public.

Thirty five people were killed and 37 wounded when a man opened fire on tourists with two semi-automatic rifles: an AR-15 and an L1A1 SLR. These weapons were of a type that was legal to possess in Tasmania at the time, but the murderer did not have a license and acquired the firearms illegally.[citation needed]

Newly elected Prime Minister John Howard immediately took existing gun law proposals developed after the report of the 1988 National Committee on Violence[12]) and pushed the states to adopt them under a National Firearms Agreement, necessary because the Australian Constitution does not give the Commonwealth power to enact gun laws.

The proposals included a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls. Some discussion of measures to allow owners to undertake modifications to reduce the capacity of magazine-fed shotguns occurred, but the Government decided not to permit this.

Public feeling after the Port Arthur shootings overwhelmed the opposition from gun owners' organisations and the Commonwealth was able to induce all states to agree to their proposals without change.

The Government planned a series of public meetings with farmers and sporting shooters to explain the proposed changes. In the first meeting, on the advice of his security team, Mr. Howard wore a bullet-resistant vest, which was visible under his jacket. This was perceived as a deeply offensive act by the shooters, and their outrage was interpreted by many of the media and the public to show that ordinary shooters were dangerous and contemptible[citation needed].

Thousands of shooters applied to join the Liberal Party of Australia in an attempt to influence the Government, but were barred from membership.[citation needed]

The American National Rifle Association expressed support for Australian gun owners and was roundly condemned by Federal Attorney General Daryl Williams.[13]

Because the Australian Constitution prevents the taking of property without just compensation the Federal Government elected to put a 1% levy on income tax for one year to finance the "buy back" purchase and destruction of all semi-automatic rifles including .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns. Although only Victoria published statistics, it appears that only 5% of the destroyed guns were centrefire semiautomatic rifles, the huge majority being sporting rimfires and shotguns.[citation needed] The buyback was predicted to cost $A500 million.


[edit on 29-1-2009 by TheKingsVillian]

reply to post by TheKingsVillian


I am familiar with the Port Arthur Massacre as a catalyst for your disarmament as well as the Dunblane shootings contributing to the UK's disarmament.

I'm not sure if it would be as simple as a deranged gunman killed some kids for us here. We had the tower sniper at that Texas University (who was subdued by armed citizens) we had Columbine and VA Tech and that psycho that shot up an Amish school, some guy firing at a school playground across the street from his home etc...

I dont think there even was a catalyst event for the 1992 Clinton AWB. Oh, that's right. Some guy got shot in the leg with a .22. Apparently his incident was the one that broke the camels back.


As far as most Americans not knowing what the Port Arthur Massacre was, well, it would be nice if everyone paid attention to everything all the time but that's not reality. Some people may have issues important to them that they keep global track of (hence my knowledge of PA and Dunblane as excuses to disarm the population) but most folks have trouble enough keeping track of what goes on in their own families and if there's time what goes on in their own towns and states.

All the globalist crap comes from the politicians and the corporations. The average American couldnt care less what's going on in somebody elses country. I think that's a good thing. Good fences make for good neighbours. Somebody out in France or wherever wondering about the goings on of Boise, Idaho kind of gives me the creeps. If everyone minded their own business we wouldnt have to worry about totalitarian governments and the revocation of god-given rights. Non-interventionism from the ground up.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I would not give up on them giving it a good try.

In South Florida, I do believe it was Miami, a group of young men shot into a group of people at a local gathering. If the report was correct a young group had gathered to play and watch a gambling game of dice. This is just background. The real meat and potatoes is that that used a large number of automatic weapons and did a lot of damage.

Of course this was spun in a way to put the whole city of Miami into a panic and call for a public outcry on gun ownership. My first questions however are, where do you kids get automatic weapons of this caliber. Second, where do they get the money to afford this caliber of weapons in this number?

I do think I smell something a bit rotten.

Generally my friend in situations as such above the weapons are stolen, either from police cruisers, gun stores, or even private residence. As for the automatic part of it, it is quite easy to purchase an auto/semi-auto conversion kit for virtually any firearm here in the states.

I reserve the right and have turned in felons with firearms.

It did not help one felons case that he had threatened me.

The others were known drug users and thieves.

I was just doing a public service getting them off the street.


if you know of a felon with a gun or just ammo turn them in that will cut crime more then a gun ban.

Originally posted by djvexd
As for the automatic part of it, it is quite easy to purchase an auto/semi-auto conversion kit for virtually any firearm here in the states.

There's a crock if I ever heard one.

Yes, there are plenty of books and manuals sold as "how to's" and yes there are even a couple of folks claiming to sell "kits" but without grinders, milling machines, lathes and presses as well as some machining and gunsmithing experience you arent going to accomplish anything but destroying the gun you are trying to "convert."

There was a time when you could simply "drop-in" an auto-sear but those daya have been gone for a long time.

The street gang idiot isnt going to have access to a machine shop and even if he did he wouldnt know what to do. If any one of these drug dealing, knuckle dragging apes ever had a honest to goodness full auto firearm chances are it's been smuggled into his hands the same way the drugs were.

Right around the time of the first AWB when this myth of waving a wand over a semi-auto and turning it full-auto was at it's highest a police chief, from CA no less, came out and said that there has never been a case of a "converted" firearm being used in any crime in the state of CA.

Don't you think that the media would be all over the ghetto machinists turning semi's into full autos? We'd never hear the end of it. Rather what you do hear is guys from Minnesota going to prison because their firearm malfunctioned and even though the investigating ATF cant figure out how or why they still charge him with illegal transfer of a machine gun.

Assault Weapons Easily Converted to Full-auto?

Not according to LAPD Detective Jimmy Trahin, testifying before the California State Assembly (Feb. 13,1989):

... over 4,000 guns that came into the custody of our unit last year, less than 120 would be classified as this military-type weapon. Of those, only ten or less than ten were actually illegally converted to fully-automatic machine gun stocks. Why? Because these military style assault weapons of today are not easily and readily convertible without extensive knowledge of modifications to the weapon and/or substitution of available parts. (source)

These miliatry style assault weapons of today are not easily and readily convertible without extensive knowledge and modifications to the weapon and/or substitution of available parts.

Now, in my 12 years within the unit, considering the enormous amount of firearms that we have taken into custody, and that's over fifty-thousand, I would say, and these inlcuded ones from the hardcore gangs, and from the drug dealers, our unit has never, ever, had one AK-47 converted, one Ruger Mini-14 converted, an H&K 91, 93 never converted, an AR-180 never converted. So this media blitz of many of these assault weapons, or supposedly military style weapons are being converted to full automatic is not true. (source) (additional source)

www.guncite.com...

the drug lords are importing automatic weapons, including AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades.

www.newsobserver.com...

[edit on 30-1-2009 by thisguyrighthere]