Rapture or no Rapture?

Im sure many people know about the whole rapture idea, whether Christian or not.

The Passion of the Christ did very well at the box office, one reason being there are no real spiritual movies today and there seems to be a hunger for it. With that said the Left Behind books will soon be made into films, one of the main teachings of these books is that the Christians will be raptured or taken out of the world before the beginning of the very end when things get bad etc. So now if the Left Behind films do well, they will draw many people to watch them, not just Christians who have read the book, and will spread this idea of a Rapture even more.

What do you think regarding this? I dont believe there will be a rapture of christians before the tribulation, purely because the bible tells of mass persecution and martyering of saints etc, this cannot happen if they have been whisked away.

Also the most important thing to me about this is the idea that you escape TRIALs and TRIBULATIONS when in actual fact a true testimony of a true christian life is one of trials and testings. Jesus said carry your cross etc etc. If you follow me the world will hate you etc etc.

So what do you think about this? Im sure you have all heard about the rapture idea...you think its plausable or a major deception to make people think they will be raptured away when in actual fact they themselves are the targets for the camps etc, persecution etc?

www.biblestudygames.com...


This is a study of the rapture idea

All religions contain carrots and sticks.
I believe that rapture is a carrot.

The Rapture scenerio is perhaps the most blatant example of Christian Bigotry and Arrogence that I can think of.

The idea that God, who supposedly created all people, would play favorites in such a way is absurd. This thinking is the result of hateful, prideful humans trying to attribute human motives and asperations to God so they can justify their own hate and discrimination. I expect God would be above such a petty, dogmatic, self-rightous, and petulant attitude.

John Darby helped popularize the Rapture theory in the 19th century. The bible never mentions the word rapture. I guess I'll be "staying behind."

[Edited on 12-4-2004 by KSoze]

The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.
dictionary.reference.com...

I think it is, a word with heaven in the explaining has to be Christian.

Very intresting word. It started A bad emotion and physical, and ended up good emotion and mental.

[Edited on 12-4-2004 by SpittinCobra]

You'd be suprised at the number of Christians, esp Born Againers who believe in the whole rapture thing. The guy who wrote the Left Behind books is supposedly a theologian.

The scriptures about the rapture in the bible are actually talking about the return of Jesus Christ, when people get their new bodies etc.

So lots of Christians out there thinking they will be taken out from the beastie boy, which is wrong..they will have their heads removed if they dont follow him, Rev talks about MAJOR persecution that would make holocaust look like a tea party. Now how can Anti kill all them Christians if they popped up to Heaven??

About that comment about bigoted religions. islam teaches that the WHOLE world will submit to Islam before Judgement Day, within the scriptures of the Koran (this is FACT) it teaches that a time will come when all the jews will be killed by Muslims, and that if a jew is hidding behind a rock..the rock itself will speak to the Muslim warrior and tell him a Jew is hiding behind me! Then the Jews believe that when their Messiah comes they will rule the world from Isreal. The Jews have wanted a political leader, like a King David character..whereas Jesus was a spiritual leader of his time. So ALL monlethic RELIGONS teach some form of superiority...actually the simple faith and gospel teachings of Jesus Christ itself is salvation. Its about loving one another which a person can only do if they have peace in their hearts, which only comes from God.
Religion has screwed up the message and used it to enrich themselves..from Roman Catholics to modern day TV Evagelists. Theres a major message in Jesus 's teaching of leaving your life behind and following him. Surrending your will totally, repenting (which means asking for forgiveness and turning away from sin) and allowing God to change you, because the truth is NO MAN can save himself, whether through good works or praying a certain way. God alone and only him can save and change people. Religion teaches and trains us to follow mans laws for salvation but the bible itself says call every man a lier and believe only God!

To look at the state Christianity is in look at the best seller lists. Prayer of Jabez for example...cool book...takes a scripture and twists it into making people believe that if you say a certain prayer for a set number of days in a certain way God is your servant and will bless you with wealth!!!! Thats what its come to..God is a means to make us rich (even though the bible teaches that its the direct opposite!)

What do you really learn today in churchs? If its fundemental churchs you learn more about the Occult than the pagans know, and your taught life skills and powerpoint!

Final question...those that love are of Jesus/ God..as Jesus said by this people will know that you follow me.

So in the words of the Black Eyed Peas..where is the love?

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
www.biblestudygames.com...

This is a study of the rapture idea

The link that you gave is more along the line of the Seventh Day Adventest views of the Rapture, and not those of most Christians. This is truly an odd website with (IMO) a buch of crackpot ideas. For instance they believe that the original sin was Eve having sex with Satan, and try to tie Adam into this some how since he took of the fruit as well. I guess it was a threesome.

For an honest, indepth discussion on what Christians believe about the rapture see www.harpazo.net...

This mysterious event is most clearly represented in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 ...
In this passage the English phrase "caught up" translates the Greek word HARPAZO, which means "to seize upon with force" or "to snatch up." The Latin translators of the Bible used the word "rapturo," the root of the English term "Rapture." At the Rapture, living believers will be "caught up" in the air, translated into the clouds, in a moment in time to join the Lord in the air.

Your question about when this event will occur is a point of contention, even among those who believe in the Rapture. There are four main points of view.

1. Pre-Trib... Where Christ will Rapture the church BEFORE the Tribulation even begins.
   
2. Mid-Trib... Where Christ will Rapture the church at the MID-POINT of the Tribulation.
   
3. Post Trib... Where Christ will Rapture the church at the END of the Tribulation.
   
4. Pre-Wrath... Where Christ will Rapture the church JUST BEFORE the Battle of Armageddon.
   

Understand that this is not a "Salvation" issue, and you are not required to believe in any of these views to be a Christian. You should however believe in the Return of Christ and rewards/punishment for all upon his return. Personally I lean towards the Pre-Trib point of view, but I'm not really sold on the idea completely.

You could possibly be correct, in that there will not be a Rapture, since it isn't spelled out in black and white, but the evidence in the scripture points to some kind of mysterious event. I think the question is more of when this will occur and not if. In this case it could be that Christians will end up in camps. Other views are that after the Rapture, people will become Christians, and these are the ones who will have their heads removed. This is basically the view taken in the Left Behind series.


The argument that this is different than the Second Coming of Jesus is summed up in the following ideas.

t h e R a p t u r e ...
-Seen Only by Believers ... 1 Corinthians 15:52
-It's a Mystery - revealed by Paul in the New Testament ... 1Corinthians 15:51-53
-In a Twinkling of an Eye ... 1 Corinthians 15:51-53
-We are Going "UP" - Meeting Jesus in the Air ... 1 Thes 4:15-18
-A Thief in the Night.... 1Thessalonians 5:2
-Christ Comes for His Own ... 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
-Believers taken to Father's House ... John 14:3
-No reference to Satan ...
-Earth not judged ...

t h e S e c o n d C o m i n g ...
-Every Eye Will See Him ... Revelation 1:7 19:11-16 and Matthew 24:30
-Not a Mystery - Foretold in Old Testament ... Daniel 12:1-3 and Zech. 12:10; 14:4
-He will be Coming "DOWN" to the Mount of Olives ... Zechariah 14
-He Comes With His Own ... Revelation 19:14 *
-Satan bound ... Revelation 20:1-3
-Earth judged ... Revelation 20:4-5




[Edited on 12-4-2004 by dbates]

If the rapture is going to happen why is it not mentioned in Jesus Christ s own book in the bible Revelations? Seeing as Jesus himself gave this revelation to John? There is only one church in Revelations that mentions not going through the trials of the tribulation. Why would many ppl become Christians in such a short time when the gospels have been here for so long? Plus there would be the strongest ever opposition to the gospels at the time of the tribulation.

The main point is that the rapture is mentioned very little in the bible, whereas the persecution of believers is mentioned by Jesus Christ himself and in all of the apocopytic scriptures.

Isnt the end of the age the time of people in the valley of discision?? Choosing between the truth and a close match?

Jesus himself prayed to God asking that his people would not be taken out of the world but would be protected from the evil one.

I believe the rapture is a false teaching, maybe the link i gave was not a good example but please read the other links posted about the origin of this belief.

I believe the Left Behind books also puts the opinon across that some people with the mark of the beast can still escape judgment??? There are ALOT of extra biblical themes in the books, and alot of twisted scripture. This will then be taken as Gospel.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
The Rapture scenerio is perhaps the most blatant example of Christian Bigotry and Arrogence that I can think of.

The idea that God, who supposedly created all people, would play favorites in such a way is absurd. This thinking is the result of hateful, prideful humans trying to attribute human motives and asperations to God so they can justify their own hate and discrimination. I expect God would be above such a petty, dogmatic, self-rightous, and petulant attitude.

I agree to an extent with what you say. God though, in the bible (especially old testament) was never truly fair. He played favorites, delivered some from others ECT, ECT.

Okay I am going to add my 2 cents on this.

For one the rapture consists of 144,000 of "selected" few. This does not mean these are the only people to be saved. The rapture is to prepare Christ's "church" in heaven for the mass soul's that will delivered unto him because of armegedon. This is the end of mankind.

The 144,000 you will notice is also the "harmonic" of light.

These 144,000 individuals had/have been already selected because of their "faith" or because of their "virtue" or because of their "knowledge". There is no criteria for how the 144,000 get selected. But they must prepare his Kingdom for the "Arrival".

In all likelyhood they could be abductees because they have been "developed" over time to more closely communicate with "GOD". They may be the "heardsmen" that convince the rest of the human population to go with "GOD" because they are going to return to "heaven".

Revelations might be a deception to "capture" the human race.

Or might simply be a prophecy that could fortell the destruction of mankind by our own hands.

And those the see the "light" (144,000) might one day evolve to know that life is more, then greed and war and power. And life was meant to be a journey of love and compassion knowing that each of us will eventual meet a mortal fate in the end. Accession can only truely happen if mankind has shed his will to destroy.

I just think that 99.9% of Christians WILL experience the tribulation and NOT escape it. It could be that when the Two Witnesses are brought back to life that the rapture happens? But then once again no christians around for the persecution...666 and all that is later after the witnesses, but isnt that when all the martyering happens People dont accept the mark so they are killed? I cant think of anyone christian or non christian who would actually take 666....i mean everyone knows thats evil anyway, so the deception would have to be major and 666 hidden in some way?

144 000 are from the 12 tribes arent they? What about the gentile believers?

The first link I posted , i only read the bit about rapture from google, so didnt go into the whole eden thing..they believe what the moonies believed...Satan bonked Eve and there are two human seeds on earth..one are Satans kids and the other Gods..mkay?

I thought 144,000 was the number of Jewish witnesses who would be killed or something like that.
Left Behind was already made into a movie I think.

[Edited on 12-4-2004 by EricFM]

I enjoy reading the Left Behind books because they are very interesting.

With regards to the questions about how can Christians go through a tribulation period if they've all been raptured. The deal is, as I've come to believe, is that those Christians who accept Jesus fully into their life and devote their life to God will be raptured; but after the rapture many more people will come to be Christians and they will be the ones who will be persecuted.