The British have something to say to us Americans!

reply to post by imd12c4funn


Ewwww!!!

No fair, you're an American!!

AND, using images that likely come from some twisted motion picture....must --- erase --- images --- from my mind.

OK, done.

To your advantage, at least you images didn't involve a weapon, as in a gun, of some kind. So, back to you imd12, your turn....

reply to post by infolurker


Yeh, it sucks to be honest....

If someone breaks into your house and use self defence, then you can be sued...

There was a case a while back (I haven't watched the video so I hope it hasn't been mentioned. [I don't have access to YT at work]) where by a guy broke into a house via the conservatory, the window smashed and he cut his arm or something... The home owner didn't do anything except call the Police.

The burglar sued the home owner because he cut his arm during the break and entry.
He won his appeal...

Now I'm sorry, but how the $%£^ is that fair?

Not strictly related to this subject... But there was a similar stupidly ridiculous case passing not so long ago in the town that I live in; where a young lad was on his bike on a busy road. And rather then daring blindly across the road, he chose to use a Zebra crossing (Not sure what you call them in the States, but one of the white lined pedestrian crossing points)

Now, in the UK its against the law (Though not strictly enforced) for bikers to ride on the pavement, and seen as a zebra crossing is part of the pedestrian walk way.. It is not really a good thing for bikes to use them.

So, this boy began to cycle on the crossing and he was in the clear. A driver ignored the red light and ran him down.
He used the fact that the boy was in the wrong for using the crossing when he shouldn't. He won the case.

The boy is now in a brain dead cripple condition... The driver got away Scott free (despite running a red light) AND claimed damages off the family to repair his car...

Seriously wtf... Ill assume that that kind of stupidity level doesn't occur in the US?

reply to post by Kliskey


Kliskey, yes, these same sorts of travesties of justice occur, even here in the States. I call them anomalies....one may wish to say they are a 'mis-carriage' of justice. BUT, they ARE the exception, not the norm.

These sorts of indignities are balanced by the ignoramus, the ridiculous, if you will....such as the really stupid potential bank-robber who, planning to rob the bank, dutifully put a ski-mask over his face (makes sense?) then, stood in line for his turn at the teller window!!! Whilst wearing the ski-mask the entire time! Yeah, quite stupid, if you ask me.

Speaking as a Briton, this country has the everyday man locked up by sooo many laws that it's hard to do anything inside the law. Even for a protest nowadays you need endless pages of documents to sign otherwise you'll be locked up.

A true shame, for the US please learn from our mistakes and if possible fire some nukes our way as this country has gone to the dogs.

I am a ex- felon living in North Texas, United States.

I was sentenced to two years in prison for 3 counts of assualt with a deadly weapon, the weapon a baseball bat.the victims were 10 guys at a nudie bar. I could have pursued a final case of self-defense but ran out of money and had to take a plea.


If I am caught with a gun, not only do I get State time but also Federal time., that amounts to 10 years behind bars, it is legal for citizens with permits to carry in our state. We still have crime but Murders are at a all time low in my city. Now the police have a more difficult road now and more police are dieng on duty but the public is not.


That is what I think happened in britian, they were trying to limit liability to their law enforcment officers.. not willing to put them on harms way, they are saving their own arses...

These criminals with extensive records here have that 3 strikes law that keeps them off the street fo a while bvut they eventually come out better or worse, never inbetween,So it comes down to changing policy and doing it now.
It's not going to happen in the U.S. or every thug will see another opportunity to make money. It already happens here in Texas at Gun Shows.. Mexican Cartels buy Guns in Tx they can buy in bulk and never have to state how many guns they are buying, so we have problems too.

Way to keep on top of this.

come to get in my place, My choice would not provoke a firearm, but rather a little tossing knife to get acquainted.

Then, whilst introductions are underway, you may meet my 21' Bull Whip, and the pleasure will be mine.

Had I been caught unexpectedly, stiletto, like a tortoise, will pop it's head out of it's shell, and while you decide if better to extract the blade and possibly bleed out, or leave it and stare until shock overcomes, I'll be debating the 120 drum, th 11 shot LB22 Revolver, or the .357 revolver. Should you be conscious at that time,
No sense grabbing any other firearm, unless there are a multitude of your co-conspirators or you talk smack.

A jolt or two tazing arcs will hopefully send an audible message to any accomplice(s) whom may be lurking on the property.

When secure, I'll be in my rocking chair applying fiberglass insulation to your wound in attempt to stop the blood loss.

At this time, I will allow you to gather my phone when and if you are ready for me to call for help. If you feel you are unable to move enough to retrieve it, I'll wait until you change your mind or pass out.

If I must waste a cartridge, It'll be a subsonic to the abdomen with a coating of a secret family recipe on the slug.


Or, I'll rattle of a burst or two of starfire (may have to flip a few coins to decide what caliber) then end it so my time is not unneccessarily wasted.

For people who are afraid of "gun crime"

Britain and Oz top US in violent crime

gun crime and violent crime are related, but not synonymous

UK is knife crime capital

[edit on 26-1-2009 by hotrodturbo7]

Im British living in UK.

I agree with the American ATS members.

if someone broke into my house, I would do what I could...in the USA - Firearm.

UK.....we cant do #!! - even if we attack the criminal - they can prosecute us for physical assault!! - how #ed up is that!!!!.....

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT should be brought back!! - someones steals, hands chopped off etc etc....

I back having firearms but the law MUST come down on them if they are misused....for home protection, absolutely fine!! - someone comes in your house uninvited, you show them the hard way out the front door in a body bag.

This world is on its arse!!! - and im sure its not gonna get better for a while yet. - hold them guns tight boys! (at least you can in USA anyway!)

This video is the most biassed video I have ever seen.

As a British citizen I tell you honestly that we do not have a gun problem in England. I have never seen a gun in a member of the public's hand and I can tell you I feel a lot safer knowing that no one has one.

Sure, you will still get criminals who own guns, we had a shooting of a small boy last year. It was all over the news and was the biggest headline for months.

When I ask, do you see on the news in England, crimes similar to the Virginia tech shooting? Or the several other very similar things happening in America? It happens all the time in America and it always reaches the news here "mad gunman this" "mad gunman that" "man goes to party dressed as santa and goes on a gun rampage" etc etc. You just don't get that here.

Why? Because mad men can't freely and easily obtain handguns, simple as.

This video dresses a FOX HUNTING protest up to make it out as a protest about banning guns and the loss of rights. This protest was against the banning of fox hunting, and 95% of the people there, were only protesting about the fox hunting ban. The interviewer only shows interviews of people using arguments against fox hunting ie: Loss of rights blah blah. But hardly mentions that it's about fox hunting. Instead they edit and dress it up to make it out like every member of Britain have lost their rights and blah blah blah. That just wasn't the case and this video is biassed.

The video maker is obviously against gun banning in the USA and is trying to twist events here in Britain to raise an argument of example to try to persuade people in the USA to go against banning of guns, that's all.

A couple of facts that the video seems to mislead you about:

Gun crime rose in the UK after the gun ban. Well yes it did. And that's because owning, or being in possession of a gun counts as gun crime, where as it wouldn't have before they were banned. So everyone caught with a gun in their house which they didn't give away, is now a gun criminal.

My point is, the "increase" in gun crime wasn't an increase of murders or armed robbery, it's only because people are classed as a gun criminal because they're either in possession or own a gun. So the video is false again in this point.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
FREE Tony Martin - FREE Tony Martin - FREE Tony Martin

What???

You're about 5 and a half years late mate!!

On 28 July 2003, Martin was released after serving a total of three years of his five year sentence,[3] the maximum period for which he could be held following good behaviour.

I used to be against the Gun laws.

But...
Having seen what has been happening to the USA in the last 8 years I now fully understand why you feel you should have the right to own a gun.

Though, I do also feel that the majority of you on here proclaiming it as your right, don't actually own one.

It does make me laugh though when people start talking about their rights "as Americans", what happened to all these rights while Bush was imposing stupid laws removing such rights?
Where were you all when Bush was dissecting your written laws of governance for his benefit?

Perhaps you wouldn't all be so desperate to keep hold of your guns if you hadn't allowed Bush to trample on your rights consistently and without any argument.

I certainly see why you want to keep them, you have to maintain the ability to overthrow your government if you have to. Though I feel you'd do that just fine with or without those guns.
But proclaiming that you should all have a gun just because you have the right to is quite stupid.

I have the right to walk on my hands while barking like a dog, that doesn't mean it's worthwhile to do.

reply to post by kyred


I live in Ohio, and here we have the Castle Defense Law, recently passed.
www.dispatch.com...
If an intruder enters our home, we can legally defend that home with deadly force. Every State should have a law on the books like this one. Bless Ted Strickland!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by infolurker

 

Here's another question....why not install a home security system? It isn't that expensive, and usually will cause a casual burglar to run away the minute it goes off.

IF a professional is intent on invading your home, then you either (A) have something of great value there, and you should have it protected properly or (B) you're incredibly paranoid and just like the idea of having a gun under your pillow (or wherever) to satisfy your fantasy of being Dirty Harry.

I for one am not concerned with a professional burlar. They would know to come when nobody is home.

Let me give you this situation that happened to my next door neighbor last year. 3:00 Am - a large naked man threw the propane tank from the bbq grill through the sliding glass door. He then routed through the kitchen and took a kitchen knife upstairs while screaming. My neighbor, his wife and son hid in the closet called 911 and got his pistol ready.
By the time the police arrived the intruder was dead after managing to break through the closet door.
It ended up that he was on drugs and was looking for his estranged girlfriend.
There goes your happy little "alarm" idea - and the harsh reality of you can't base your defense on someone else's motive. I'll keep my "Dirty Harry" piece ready and accesible, but thanks for the input.

why tell the police? shoot em and ditch em in a mincer. Takes the scum right out of the gene pool. I envy you american people.

Well, even if I did skip a few posts, as a Brit, I'm not too sure if I'm Pro or Con.

More than likely sitting on the fence in this case.

However, the fact still remains. Get rid of all our guns and the manufacturers, there is still other objects, sharp and blunt alike, which still cause damage. I'm against owning a gun, as I used to fire rifles on ranges, and even then disliked them. Never had to use one in a real life scenario, which I am grateful for.

Although, it still boils down to individual opinion. If my house was broken into I'd just be thanking my lucky stars that I could keep myself and others alive. Material possessions aren't worth much in that sort of situation, are they not???

Originally posted by nacluv
why tell the police? shoot em and ditch em in a mincer. Takes the scum right out of the gene pool. I envy you american people.

Been watching Sweeny Todd, per chance?!

OK, I was yesterday, that's why you made me think of it haha!

Some clarification is needed here about Tony Martin.

He received enormous public support over here, and was in the news for months. Most people, including me, believe it was wrong to charge him even with manslaughter.

However it's important to be clear why he was charged, and why he ended up in jail. The law here states a householder may use 'reasonable and proportional force' against an intruder into your home. This includes killing the intruder in certain circumstances: where the homeowner had reasonable grounds to assume his life was threatened, then killing the burglar is OK in law.

The rearon Tony Martin got into trouble with the law is because he pursued the 2 intruders as they left his property, and shot one of them in the back as he was running away. The intruder then crawled, fatally injured, into a ditch and died a couple of hours later. His body was only discovered the next day.

Unfortunately the law here does not support this, and the law has to be enforced in a fatal shooting situation. If the intruder had been in the house, had been armed or even if Martin could have convinced a jury he believed he was in mortal danger, then he'd have been in the clear and there would have been no prosecution. Even if Martin had killed him.

Details are important.

The video has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with guns or gun control or gun laws.

"Hunting" in the UK means some idiotic chinless wonder with a pile of inherited cash going for a ride on his horse with his equally hopeless friends and treading on the rights of the people who live around them.

Hunting in the US is synonymous with the wilds, with freedom, and with people of all incomes. Not here.

Hunting in the UK is synonymous with big old houses, bizarre upper class accents, champagne, and some tw*t on horseback blithering across the road and nearly driving you into a ditch.

The protest isn't about ordinary citizens getting the freedom to shoot burglars with sidearms. Its about the right of lords and ladies of good breeding to race their way across your land scattering your livestock and damaging your crops as some sort of God-given right that we should be grateful for as part of our "heritage".

I thought the whole independence thing was, in part, a desire to get away from idiots like these (or at least, your taxes supporting their lifestyle).

Ok, people everywhere are waking up now to these bans on guns and how the false promise of peace will never be established through such nonsensical bans.

Now what can we do to stop the process?

It's time to hold the people in office accountable --they're not representing us at all, but themselves! All of those fake poll numbers created to sway the borderline mind. All of the gun violence on the news (by the way, the violence is created mostly from people who don't have registered guns and have obtained them illegally) is another way to sway.

It's all a nice systematic way to choke the liberties out of the citizens without many realizing it. Take a little piece from over here and while the attention is over there you take another little piece over there. Everyone's head is spinning and wondering, is it me or is my circle getting smaller? It indeed is getting smaller and that circle has now formed a box and those walls that used to protect you are now restraining you.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
FREE Tony Martin - FREE Tony Martin - FREE Tony Martin

What???

You're about 5 and a half years late mate!!

On 28 July 2003, Martin was released after serving a total of three years of his five year sentence,[3] the maximum period for which he could be held following good behaviour.

Tony Martin is actually a very good case for people to consider when talking about the UK and the ridiculous laws that protect criminals and not the public.

Just to reiterate points that have been made. We have never been allowed to have guns for protection, all guns must have a license for use in hunting or for use as a hobby at a gun club. The ownership of guns as a hobby has now been taking away. However you can still have rifles/shotguns for hunting.

Tony Martin for those of you who do not know was a british farmer who protected his home and property by shooting 2 robbers who were in his house as they were trying to flee. One was fatally wounded.

Due to the fact that they were fleeing at the time and so he supposedly was not in direct danger the police prosecuted him for murder. He was convicted of murder and served 3 years.

To make matters worse, the other robber who lived but was also shot was given £5000 of tax payers money so that he could sue Tony Martin for compensation due to his injuries.

So not only was a law abiding UK citizen sent to prison for protecting his home, the money we all pay in tax allowed for the robber to claim compensation!

The compensation claim was thrown out as the injuries were grossly exaggerated, but one of our tabloid newspapers paid him £125k for his story.

Lets say you're woken in the middle of the night by someone downstairs, you grab your gun and go to investigate and find 2 people trying to escape through an open window, would you just let them go, knowing full well the police will do nothing and they're bound to be back again, or would you pull the trigger just twice and serve your own justice?

I'll leave that for you to decide.

As for gun crime increasing in the UK, absolutely. But most of it is gang vs gang and not involving members of the public which can skew the statistics some what.

Knife crime is far worse a problem and even harder for police to solve murders as there is very little evidence from a knife wound compared to a gunshot wound and a bullet. I've seen CSI:Miami, I know what I mean! hehe