requirements, cost or cool why do you buy?

A lot of folks here have their stuff wired tight, some others are looking for suggestions and help. Just a few thoughts that might provoke some conversation.

Why do you buy the stuff for your kit? Is it because it looks cool? Is it because of the cost or because you have a requirement for performance and buy on that basis?

Example, weapons: is your primary requirement reliability, accuracy or power?
My requirements are reliability, then accuracy of within one inch of point of aim at the max range I will be taking game and lastly terminal effectiveness. This is why an AK47 is not in my safe even though it is cheaper than what I have there now.

Fire starter: I now have a blast match because it can be used one handed if needed.

What are your thought and what are some of your reasons for the choices you have made?

Neccesity drives my purchasing needs, price obviously is a concern but at the end of the day I need a flashlight I know will work, same with my storm lighter, lock knife and multi tool. Watch and Specs are partially fashion driven but the glasses must be polarised for shooting, plastic lenes for protection and the watch battery free for reliability.

Where I would do different from you is I would not go for a rifle because of its MOA capability like an M16 , nor would I go for cheapness like the Avtomat Kalashnikov 47. my first choise is reliability and durability so I would have as a first my favourite FN Fal ( SLR in british) second would be a Valmet cos its an AK47 but not built for cheapness but as a quality version, bit like the Galil

My fire starter is a Blazer PB207 because of its single handed operation, its lock on capability, its large fuel tank, its flint free piezo electric ignition, and its capability of being used to braise and solder as well as being able to light wet wood..

Got to admit to loving LED powered flashlights, no more bulbs to burn out at the worst possible moment, but I have noticed some that have fancy multi function capabilities like strobe, flash, SOS etc the mico electrics do fail on some. So I buy the ones that are just 3 or 6 volt dc activated LEDs that need at worst a resister to make them function.
NR

I have to agree with Northern Raider.

I buy the best I can with what I can afford.
I do like a lot of military equipment as you know it has been very well road tested.

But I must say having something is better than nothing.

ie, it is better to have a cheap knife than no knife at all.

Ditto to both colec & NR's posts. We all want quality that is cost effective. Military surplus is generally good stuff and by virtue of what it is, is available 2nd hand more so than civvy stuff.
I still have a full set of 58 webbing & GS Bergen for my sins. (No Im not a rambo type thank you).
Rather have a 7.62 than a 5.56, 7.62 makes baddies a lot deader

Rgds

Originally posted by Dark Vengeance
Ditto to both colec & NR's posts. We all want quality that is cost effective. Military surplus is generally good stuff and by virtue of what it is, is available 2nd hand more so than civvy stuff.
I still have a full set of 58 webbing & GS Bergen for my sins. (No Im not a rambo type thank you).
Rather have a 7.62 than a 5.56, 7.62 makes baddies a lot deader

Rgds

Oh such words of refreshing wisdom. A joy to read. I always prefered 7.62 Nato.308 Winchester against 5.56 Nato 223 Remington for one good reason. with 7.62 x 51 nato you could knock Russians down long before they could knock you down with their 7.62 x39 round. that mean for us Cold war warriors we could open up at 800 plus yards at Ivan as he crossed the inner German border, but he could not achieve much against us until he got to 400 yards or less, by which time we had buggered off to the rear to our next line of defence. and no I dont want to just wound him so his mates have to care for him, I want to knock him down before he can shoot me, then I want to run away as fast as I can.

Thanks for the input. My "bug in" rifle is a FAL. Cost and utility is what I was trying to get across, all of you have done that. Requirements in a truck,
BOV, a bow or cross bow, how good of a knife do you really need. Water purification can be done with fine sand and charcoal you do not need a $700 hand pumped RO. Does a person need a 70# compound bow when a 35# re-curve is lighter, easier on arrows and will still take a deer?

Reliability and versatility are my two core needs by which all potential purchases are weighed.

A tool for survival should do what it's supposed to do without fail, and it should do more than one thing well. It's good to have redundancy, more than one way to light a fire, catch game, secure shelter, etc.

But if you want to have redundancy without requiring a pack mule to carry your stuff around, you're going to have to make sure every piece of kit is as versatile as it is reliable.

Originally posted by waterdoctor
Thanks for the input. My "bug in" rifle is a FAL. Cost and utility is what I was trying to get across, all of you have done that. Requirements in a truck,
BOV, a bow or cross bow, how good of a knife do you really need. Water purification can be done with fine sand and charcoal you do not need a $700 hand pumped RO. Does a person need a 70# compound bow when a 35# re-curve is lighter, easier on arrows and will still take a deer?

I recently got to handle what I believe was originally an Argentinian FAL with a folding " para" stock and full auto capability, The armourer took it back off me when I started drooling all over it . chrome moly heavy fluted barrel, chrome lined reciever. God if only such weapons were around in the 70s.

reply to post by waterdoctor


Personally, when sit-x comes down, or when I am just going camping or mining for a week, the most important thing to me is just how cool do I look? Do I have the Eddie Bauer glasses and vest? Do I have the best looking camelback? Did I get the matching dura-paint for my rifle? That makes the most sense to me, look better than the Jone's. Oh, and a 5th wheel that is larger than some football stadiums helps as well.

Sadly, I actually know people like this. Maybe we all do. With the world starting to think more like true survivalists, we are bound to get more of these plastic, know-everything idiots amongst us. Fortunately, they are easy enough to spot.

As far as my personal gear, I buy what others tell me works, and if it does, I stick with it, if not, I try again. Most important thing I can think of for survival is pure, clean water. So buy the best filter you can find. Next fire and shelter. Simple, compact, and versitile.

As far as weapons. I have two EDC pieces that I trust my life with, also there is a .22 in my BOB. All proven weapons. The rest of my weapons cache are guns I know, can fire accurately, and that I trust greatly.

So when you ask the question, what drives you as far as gear. Those who actually go outside once inawhile and teach themselves how to live off the land will spare no expense, obtain the best gear they can find, and know how to use it. The rest will be riding their 4-wheeler to the local gas station bragging about how they are roughing it this weekend. But at least they'll look good.

I tend to purchase the best quality equipment I can for the least amount of money. So naturally, most of my gear is military surplus. The military invested millions of dollars into the research and development of these items, so who am I to second guess them?

As for guns, I have many, but my favorite has to be the SKS. It's inexpensive, easy to maintain, utterly reliable, and can be used for either self defense or hunting without drawing to much attention to yourself. Couple it with a good shotgun like the Mossberg 500, and you're good to go for just about any situation.

I know there's better firearms out there, and I'd encourage you to purchase them if you have the resources to do so. But as for me, I'm on a tight budget, so I try to make the most out of what I can afford. Whatever you buy, do a little research first and see what other more experienced shooters have to say about a particular, rifle, shotgun, or handgun.

Good thread! Starred and flagged.

I think that most people that are serious about outdoor living look to quality and reliability in their purchases. Unfortunately they tend to be pricey.

I tend to be a minimalist. My knife and pack are custom. Made for me. Fortunately I could afford them when they were made. Good boots are a necessity as well.

As I have always state it is what is in your head, not your gear that will get you by. Learn to improvise. Study primitive living skills and modify them to fit your need.

There are many here that depend on what they carry on an everyday basis. You will find many differences in opinion, and none are really wrong. Find what fits and works for you, then get the best most reliable you can afford. It really can make a huge difference and save your life.

When you do choose your kit , get familiar with it and use it,use it, use it. Nothing beats being familiar with what you have. Can you set up your shelter,whatever mode you choose, in a pitch black thunderstorm? Can you find and use your firestarter the same way? These things are what will save you in an emergency situation.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by LLoyd45


Military surplus is a mixed bag, I think. It's a good discussion to have.

On the one hand you have the mil-spec standards, which means every piece of surplus gear meets certain criteria for durability and solid construction, but on the other hand, much of the kit sold to the military comes from the lowest bidder.

So what you're getting is almost always not the best tool for the job, it's just the cheapest one that can jump the bar, so to speak.

Some milsurp stuff is quite good, other stuff is pure crap. Examples: Milsurp folding shovels are very durable, light, and can hold an edge longer than the ones sold to campers (because they're made of better steel). On the other hand, milsurp ponchos, tents, backpacks and rain gear are crap (in my experience), and you can get much better stuff for not a lot of money.

I wouldn't trust my life to a milsurp gas mask, that's for sure (at least not an American milsurp gas mask).

So the moral of the story is to buy the best quality you can afford, sometimes that means making sacrifices.

There's some stuff you just shouldn't cheap out on, things that are absolutely vital to survival. But that doesn't mean you need lots of bells and whistles. I like the KISS way of survival - use the tool that has the fewest moving parts and the least complicated operation/maintenance, whenever possible.

A good example of this is in the selection of a compass. I don't know any dedicated survivalist who relies on GPS, so most of them come back to the older methods - topo maps and compasses, the stars, etc.. When selecting a compass you don't need to spend a thousand dollars to buy the ultra-deluxe model, you know, the one that cooks your breakfast and rolls up your sleeping bag in the mornings. You just need one that's tough as nails and gives accurate readings fast.

Still, it's not something I would cheap out on. Buying a compass for my pack I knew I wanted one that could get thrown off a cliff into a pile of jagged rocks and still do its job. It cost more than the $2.99 plastic ones, but it's worth it, in my opinion, for peace of mind.

I have used a surplus mil spec poncho for 25 years or better and it has always served its purpose well. On a side note I have recently bought a Sea to Summit sil-lite poncho to try and will evaluate for use. I bought it for reasons of weight and space. It is the main trade off of military equipment.

Many of the current special units i.e. Seals ,Delta and others are using civvy equipment modified for military use. They cannot get standard equipment to work in the situations in which they place themselves.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by reluctantpawn

As I have always state it is what is in your head, not your gear that will get you by. Learn to improvise. Study primitive living skills and modify them to fit your need.

There are alot on here that carry a good deal of stuff in their EDC and BOB, I am in that group.

While I do agree that survival is in your head, not in your gear, there is some gear that simply makes too much sense to not have.

Someone mentioned using sand to filter water. Yes, this can be done, but exactly how effective can it be? A good water filter that stores easily in your pack goes for about $80.

Yes, I can make a fire with a couple of sticks, or with a spark off of my knife blade, but a chunk of wetfire and a blastmatch dont weigh anything and make life a whole lot simplier.

When it comes to going with ultra-light gear, or saying, "well, I can do this in the wild, so why have a gadget that costs money and adds weight", I find that when I am in the woods, the time and energy I save using good gear allows me the time to pursue other endevors and give me a little more enjoyment.

Yes, we all need to know how to survive without, but having some items around certainly can make life a whole lot easier, and if I am in true survival mode, anything less difficult helps me live a whole lot longer.

From a short term stand point you are correct. How many gallons will your water filter, filter? What will you do when it won,t work. When your blast match is gone or lost what next? What if your tarp gets ripped? What do you eat when your last MRE is gone? Your shoes wear out? Your clothes rot? I too carry a edc bag. It has a plethora of tools and supplies that might well come in handy and not be found in an emergency situation. However for a prolonged event knowledge will win out. My edc bag is for short term events to get me home or even to set up for a long term event. Knowledge will get me through the long term. Just another side of the coin.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn


At least we are on the same page. Correct, my EDC gets me through the day. Multi-tools are handy, so are bandaids, things we can always use and dont weigh a ton. Keep in mind I dont carry a duffel bag with me everywhere I go. My EDC is on my belt or in my coat, lots of little stuff.

As far as long term. Agreed again. A blast match will wear out. Rip-stop tarts will rip, even my katadyn will give up eventually. We need to know how to find/create fire, water, and shelter without gizmos and gadgets, knowledge is the one thing you can never have stolen or drop into a river.

Point I was making was say its not full blown sit-x, its more of a 2 to 3 week problem. Would you want to figure out how to purify the water from Katrina with sand? Or would you rather use a little pump for 10 minutes and get to the next project? Find two dry sticks and some tinder or spark up your fire in under 10 seconds? Hack up firewood with your woodsmans pal or figure out how to tie that sharp rock to a stick?

Long long term is much different. No matter what you have, the entire Eddie Bower collection, a bomb proof bunker, 30,000 gallons of water stored, it wont be enough. You will need to know how to take care of yourself once all of the man made items in the world are the items you can make. A little extra gear just gives you a better chance to survive up until this point.

All the gear i bought was based on reliability, longevity, and weight. I prefer military gear because it was developed to be light and reliable. It has to be in order for soldiers to be able to carry it along with all their other gear.
My weapons were based on accuracy and reliability. I hunt a lot so i have to have accurate weapons. In sitX, the main weapons i will be carrying are a Ruger MINI-14 and a Ruger P-95 9mm. I have extensive knowledge of both weapons.

Norther Raider
"I recently got to handle what I believe was originally an Argentinian FAL with a folding " para" stock and full auto capability, The armourer took it back off me when I started drooling all over it . chrome moly heavy fluted barrel, chrome lined reciever. God if only such weapons were around in the 70s.

Mine is a DSA stg58 carbine. I replaced the top cover with a machined unit that acts as a scope base. No full auto but at 600yds with the scope it gets the job done. A coworker has a FN metric with the para stock and match barrel. That is a nice rifle. I think that the M14 may be a better target rifle but in the bush I could not think of a better weapon than the FAL.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by waterdoctor]

[edit on 26-1-2009 by waterdoctor]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
reply to post by LLoyd45

 

There's some stuff you just shouldn't cheap out on, things that are absolutely vital to survival. But that doesn't mean you need lots of bells and whistles. I like the KISS way of survival - use the tool that has the fewest moving parts and the least complicated operation/maintenance, whenever possible.

I'm pretty practical when it comes to my personal gear. I want something that's durable, well-made, and will get the job done. I could care less if it's fashionable or name brand. Mil Surplus in my experience usually fits the bill. Everything I buy I rigorously test out under the condition for which it's intended. If it's a poor fit, I try something else.

Mil surplus can be a good buy if you do a little research and take your time to thoroughly check it over before you make a purchase.

Mine is a DSA stg58 carbine. I replaced the top cover with a machined unit that acts as a scope base. No full auto but at 600yds with the scope it gets the job done. A coworker has a FN metric with the para stock and match barrel. That is a nice rifle. I think that the M14 may be a better target rifle but in the bush I could not think of a better weapon than the FAL.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by waterdoctor]

I dont think you are trying hard enough ( Chuckles) You know as well as I do you can reach out and touch someone at 800 yards with an FN, esp if its got a machined breach slide cover, get back down the range and stop making me jelous