Christianity (science and the bible)

I shaw this video and I wonder what they non believers and believers have to say on the scriptures. I dont know if I fully believe this whole list of things. So I wanted people to go through and explain there thoughts.

Science Confirms the Bible
www.youtube.com...

here is the list of things.

Proof from the Physical World

Psalm 19-1; Romans 1:19-20

The Earth is Round – Isa 40:22; Prov 8:27 (maybe 6:27)

The number of Stars cannot be counted
Jer 33:22; Heb11:12

Law of Conversation of Matter & energy
2Pet 3:7 Gen 2:12 (2v 1 and 2) Ex 20:11 heb 4:3 and 1:3

Hydrologic Cycle- Ecc 1:7 Job 36 27 28

Law of increasing entropy- Psalm 102:25-27 Isaiah 51:6 Gen 3:17 Rom 8 21-22

Atmospheric circulation- Ecc 1:6-7
Job 28:25 37:9

Life is in the blood Lev 17:11

Gravitational Field Job 26:7

Springs in the oceans Job 38:16 Gen 7;11 8:2 Prov 8:28

Stars emit sound Job 38:7 Ps 19:1-3

Animals reproduce after their own kind Gen 1:21 6:19

Earth and moon formed separately Gen 1:1 14:19

I believe that these are good proofs of the bible. But I wanted other believers thoughts.


[edit on 24-1-2009 by slymattb]

I recognize those quotes from a poster that was on a bullitein board in the Philosophy department at my college (made me chuckle at the irony of the placement).

I also just got done posting on another thread asking about how your beliefs and science played together. These verses are a good set of evidence to those of us who believe in God and are saved yet still want to investigate the world.

I've tried to voice this to a few of my fellow Christian friends (about how science and the Bible tie into each other) and if you were to listen to them you'd think I was trying to convert them to paganism or something. I think the next time I try and they start getting fussy I'll pull out a Bible and tell them to show me a passage that says we should not look at the Earth and wonder about it. If they find it they will have just made every human being a sinner, cause we've all looked at the stars and wondered what was going on up there when we were kids, or wanted medicine for a wound so tried different herbs.

I wasn't able to watch the video cause my comp is being uncooperative, but even with out it, these verses are definately worth talking about.

Nice final fantasy 8 pic. Most people dont think science agree with the bible. There is alot more and the point of this thread was to get more scientific evidents from other people. Guess I felled.

im knocking myself in the head for not saving the source.

the law says that you are to wait until the 8th day to circumcise a baby. what science has discovered is that up to the 5th to 7th day of a babies life, the infant doesnt have the chemicals needed to clot the blood (something that is necessary if dealing with a cut) but by the 8th day they do, and on the 8th, their blood will clot the fastest it will their entire life.

another was the hare being cud chewers, every claimed the bible wrong until it was observed in the 1800´s

there were a few more but its too early lol

reply to post by miriam0566

Hey, miriam,

I had a link to that that I posted in the "Why does God want men's foreskins" forum.

I found a lot of the same info as the OP, not that we really need any proof, because we just know through our personal relationship with God, but it's nice that God gives us the proof anyway.


Jesus even illustrates the fact that some need proof more than others by giving us the story of (doubting) Thomas.

God is good!

reply to post by slymattb

I believe that these are good proofs of the bible. But I wanted other believers thoughts.

Matt, I have an extensive background in "science". I've discovered that "science" is the new "god". If a person uses "science" as the final proof of anything, that person makes "science" out to BE God.

This is false.

I've been looking for a decent analogy and I suppose that the best way I can describe how science is being used is like this:

"The Bible is treated as only "evidence" in a trial where "science" is the ULTIMATE JUDGE."

This places science ABOVE the Bible (and ultimately) above God, Himself. This is a violation of the 1st commandment.

If science is the "judge" (not God), then God is the one on trial...

"Science" is a very cruel and arbitrary "god". It doesn't CARE how you feel or does it care FOR you. It is quite sterile. Science CANNOT show love, for it is impersonal. It will not forgive. It has no care for anyone.

Science doesn't care about ANYONE!

Science cannot be negotiated with, it cannot show compassion or MERCY. Science is "heartLESS".

Yet, science is nothing more than what we "observe". Science is what we (sometimes) trust with our "understanding", and what I've noted is that with every "advance" in science, we think we are a little bit closer to being God, ourselves. For who DOESN'T want science to finally cure all of us of sickness and pain??

Another example:

Science says, "water CANNOT be turned into wine".
The Bible says that Jesus actually DID THAT.

This example (obviously) shows that science is in "competition" with the Bible for the truth. This example makes science into the "judge".

I don't want to "de-rail" your thread, Matt, but "science" isn't God. I hear this more and more in sermons and in "Christian" literature. It is very subtle, but I note it more and more. (I hope this makes sense?)

1 Tim 6:20-21 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

I could write more on this, but I prefer to keep this short so I won't bore anyone.

reply to post by slymattb

Science Confirms the Bible

Put another way, (continuing my post above),

If science "confirms" the Bible, then the Bible is subservient to science.

However, faith in God's words (promises) OVERCOME (defeat) science.

Another example:

Peter walks on the water and sinks because of "science":

Matt 14:30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

Jesus saves him and overcomes "science".

Every miracle recorded in the Bible is a repudiation of "science":

Healings...feeding of thousands...walking on water...parting of the Red Sea...raising people from the dead...CREATION...all of the miracles in the Bible, almost by definition, defy "science".

reply to post by slymattb


Put still a THIRD way...

Who amongst us doesn't enjoy a really good "magic show"?

David Blaine?
David Copperfield?
Cris Angel?
A REALLY good card trick?
and so on...

Each of these illusionists are asking you to "deny" science. You "know" the illusion isn't real or you would ascribe to them some sort of supernatural power (to OVERCOME) science. These illusionists aren't overcoming science at all...they are just "illusionists"...and we ALL know it!

They are entertaining...but "why"?

They are entertaining because they seem to show a power ABOVE science. These illusionists are FUN to watch, but they aren't GOD.

If the illusionist could do a REAL miracle...then...

...what are you going to do?

The "science god" cannot do any miracles...

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Science says, "water CANNOT be turned into wine".
The Bible says that Jesus actually DID THAT.

ive always had a slightly different view.

GOD is a god of order. the set these laws to govern the universe. so it obvious that they cant just be thrown aside. when miracles occur, ive always thought of them being a manipulation of the laws that already exist but in ways and with mechanizims that we arent aware of or dont know about.

i dont know if that makes sense, but its just a theory

reply to post by PreTribGuy


There are generally 2 types of opinions which drive me crazy. These are the extremes of 2 sides. 1 side is that science is the only truth, the other side is that the bible is the only truth.

You pretend Science isn't real, but then you use technology that is the result of science. And then people who put their faith in science claim something came from nothing and by random chance did we get here. Both are 2 extremely small boxes.

Consciousness creates logic, logic doesn't create consciousness. Creation itself is based on logic. It is based on action and reaction. It is because of this action and reaction that is based on logic that Science is able to exist.

Consciousness is of the spirit of god, it is not based on logic. Science turns it's back on god because when it comes into contact with consciousness it just labels something as random. It is not based on logic, and so it is unpredictable and can not be repeated over and over in a lab. The closest science can do is try to label things into behavior patterns.

All things in there proper places.

There is the thinker(the father ultimately for all thought), and the thought itself.

I think that people who take on science as the 'versus' or the enemy, or the opposite of God are causing problems for themselves. Science of of God. God created science (ie. the logic and order and beauty of the universe around us). Science CAN be used as proof of God.

However, as I always clarify, science is under God, God is not under science. Hence all those weird questions like 'Can God create a rock that is too heavy for God to lift?' are pointless, because God does not operate under the laws of science.

Miracles/Prophesying are a more obvious proof of God (or proof of someone coming from God). Since God is one of the few things outside the confines of science, a miracle or a prophesy would be a sign from God.

reply to post by miriam0566

GOD is a god of order.

I am not "against" science, I am only trying to point out that (over the past 100 years or so) science is becoming the new "god".

It is hard to explain because the change has been so gradual that most people haven't noticed it. I will try to comes up with some better explanations in a later post.

reply to post by badmedia

You pretend Science isn't real

Sorry, badmedia, if I left that impression. That was not my intent. I am fully aware of science. I depend on gravity everyday...

:>)

I am not saying science isn't REAL, I am saying it doesn't MATTER what science says about God or the Bible.

I am still struggling for a "better" analogy.

Let me try another one I just thought of. The new 'god' (science) is like using my own words to either prove or DISPROVE I exist.

(I admit, it is still a little clumsy.)

Science will never be able to testify that this verse is true:

Matt 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Again,
I don't have anything against science. But science is becoming the new "god".

reply to post by babloyi

Science CAN be used as proof of God.

This is where things get a little "tricky" for me. Because if I say, "I agree with that statement", I am not also saying:

"Science CAN be used as proof of NO God."??

reply to post by PreTribGuy

But that is absurd. Here...you agree with me that God created the world, and its structure, and laws, etc., right?

How can something that God made possibly ever prove that God doesn't exist? There is nothing to fear from science, because GOD made it!

If a person follows science honestly, in the end they cannot come to any other conclusion other than the existence of God. The whole trend of science is towards this! So instead of creating a divide with God on one side and science on the other, science should be wholly embraced, because, as a search for truth, if followed properly, it can lead to nothing other than the truth.

reply to post by babloyi

But that is absurd. Here...you agree with me that God created the world, and its structure, and laws, etc., right?

Yes, but science is not "ALL" of God's word (laws, if you will). This is where the subtle issue is (for me anyway).

Science refutes that the Red Sea was parted. Science says it is NOT possible to feed 5,000 men with a couple of fish and a few loaves of bread...
Science says water cannot be turned into wine...

...and so on.

Science is now being "trusted" ABOVE what the Bible says, and more and more every day.

How can something that God made possibly ever prove that God doesn't exist? There is nothing to fear from science, because GOD made it!

See my above. I just showed you a couple of examples that pit science against what the Bible says. I haven't even begun to go into the "science of DIET".

Depending on "science" as the oracle of all truth will (ultimately) lead a person to believe the Bible is false and that we have no reliable way for God to tell us anything...except for "science".

AND, while "science" doesn't LIE (bear false witness), it is not an "expert witness to the truth".

Science does not have the capability to compare spiritual things to spiritual:

1 Cor 2:9-16 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

(Sorry for the long passage, but the context is crucial to my point.)

This whole passage is a type of a repudiation of using "science" as a means of proving spiritual things. Science cannot prove the spiritual, so it must deny it (cannot receive it). Science is "outside" of the spiritual things the Holy Ghost teaches.

The Holy Ghost doesn't teach science, He has a different type of teaching.

Using "science" to prove the Bible (or disprove) is like bringing a 6-month-old baby to a police "line-up" (as a witness) and asking the baby to point out the "criminal".

...and since we ALL KNOW "science-baby" canNOT lie...everyone is free to go because "science-baby" DIDN'T point out a suspect.

If a person follows science honestly, in the end they cannot come to any other conclusion other than the existence of God. The whole trend of science is towards this!

I disagree. The "trend" is to make science out to BE God.

Emphasis mine:

So instead of creating a divide with God on one side and science on the other, science should be wholly embraced, because, as a search for truth, if followed properly, it can lead to nothing other than the truth.

If I "wholly embraced" science, then why does science say that smoking is bad for you?

Jesus said:
Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Science refutes what Jesus said, doesn't it?

Science says the universe is billions of years old. The Bible says otherwise.

"Therein lies the rub"...

"Science" is nothing more than our "current understanding". We certainly have more science available to us than those who lived 150 years ago...but science IS nothing more than humanity's accumulated "wisdom" (understanding) of natural laws.

Science has no "standing" as the "only REAL and EXPERT witness" to what is true or NOT true in the Bible. Following science as a "leader" is like the blind leading the blind...and we all know what happens to the followers of the blind?

I don't disagree with the "science-baby" (in my analogy above) as much as I don't see how "science-baby" is now being used as the "expert" witness AGAINST what the Bible teaches...and that makes "science-baby" into a type of a "god".

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

reply to post by PreTribGuy

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Yes, but science is not "ALL" of God's word (laws, if you will). This is where the subtle issue is (for me anyway).

But science is involved with the physical world. Those of God's laws that have to do with the physical world around us, are encapsulated by 'science'.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Science does not have the capability to compare spiritual things to spiritual:

.......

This whole passage is a type of a repudiation of using "science" as a means of proving spiritual things. Science cannot prove the spiritual, so it must deny it (cannot receive it). Science is "outside" of the spiritual things the Holy Ghost teaches.

This I agree with, but I never said otherwise. There are many ways a person can be...'opened up to God' (or recieve the Holy Spirit, so to speak). God could bless them by having them touched by a passage in Scripture. Or something someone did. Or the wonder of the universe they see. Or instead it could be that God decides to give it to them out of the blue. I'm not saying that these occasions in themselves are worthy of worship, but what they lead to.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Science refutes that the Red Sea was parted. Science says it is NOT possible to feed 5,000 men with a couple of fish and a few loaves of bread...
Science says water cannot be turned into wine...

But these are all miracles! They are, by definition, outside the bounds of science. Miracles are a good example to explain what I mean. Like the other things I mentioned, miracles are a sign from God. On their own they are not worthy of 'worship', but what they lead to is important. Talking about whether they are less than or more important than God or God's other signs is not really the point.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Science is now being "trusted" ABOVE what the Bible says, and more and more every day.

But by its very nature, the concept of science is about observation, and proving and laws. If something is wrong, then it is wrong, and it is discarded. If it is right, we take it to be true, as long as something doesn't come along that disproves it. WE might not know the whole story now (and maybe we never will), but God's law is perfect and exact and fixed. It isn't really about one being "trusted" above the other. Both are from God.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Depending on "science" as the oracle of all truth will (ultimately) lead a person to believe the Bible is false and that we have no reliable way for God to tell us anything...except for "science".

As I said, science may not encapsulate the whole 'truth', but it is certainly a part of it. And as such, it CANNOT lead a person away from God (if they are honest with themselves).
I really don't understand this fear/revulsion of science. God exists. Any believer would agree with this. God created everything. Any believer would agree with this. Are we so weak in our belief of God that we must shut our eyes in case we see something that might disprove God? Such behaviour shows a troubling lack of faith, when instead we should be strong in our convictions, because we KNOW that nothing can possibly disprove God.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
I disagree. The "trend" is to make science out to BE God.

This is a very small and meaningless trend, that has been exasperated by believers' dismissal of science (hence antitheists have picked it up as a banner....the connection of 'atheist is to scientific' SHOULD NOT EVEN EXIST, in my opinion). An example to illustrate what I mean: nobody worships the Bible, but it is USED as a handbook/explanation for Christians.

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
If I "wholly embraced" science, then why does science say that smoking is bad for you?

Jesus said:
Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Science refutes what Jesus said, doesn't it?

I'm not sure, but I get a different understanding from that passage than you appear to. As I see it, it is saying that there is nothing SINFUL about eating/drinking whatever you want, but what can be sinful is what comes out (sinful speech, etc). I mean, if I take your interpretation, that would mean that speaking in some way is unhealthy? As I see it, the passage isn't really about what is healthy or unhealthy. Eating arsenic is definitely bad for you.


It might not really be that important (although there WAS a topic created about it ), but I suppose I'm carrying on about it because I see it as if someone said about a passage of scripture "Yeah, it might be true, or it might not. It isn't important to me, and it just might be dangerous, so I'll just ignore it, or maybe hide it away".

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by babloyi]