Here is some pictures i got today, Chemtrails ?

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Now, let’s assume it was not cold when taking the pictures nor were the trails very high (as it appears), so they were certainly no contrails but chemtrails.

Not cold?
In Canada?
In February?
Whaaa?

NO "Whaaa"! Can't you read I wrote "let's a-s-s-u-m-e". Secondly, is it always very cold in Canada?

Originally posted by defcon5
Contrails can persist for hours, hence the fact that they gave them the name of... Persistent Contrails!

Totally fabricated. Such NEVER occurs, unless maybe under "very special conditions". But it is meaningless and an obvious lame excuse to assert something "might" happen under "special conditions". Under 'special conditions' even a man can get pregnant!! See what I mean? Under regular conditions contrails always evaporate within a few minutes. And that's the decisive fact. In 99,9 % there are no "special conditions". So contrails DO evaporate quickly. And if they don't they're simply no contrails but c-h-e-m-i-c-a-l-s. That's why they take so long to dissolve.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
... they massively expanded in width.

Persistent contrails can spread out since they are nothing more then normal clouds.

Sorry, but again a physical nonsense. Do you expect me to believe contrails are the same as "normal clouds"? Sorry, I'm no sheeple. Try this with somebody else.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
d)they were arranged ‘chessboard like’ (unlike regular flight paths), which isn’t the case in pic1/pic2.

Chessboard like paths are created where VORS or airways intersect. Its pretty hard to fly all those planes around on routes up there and never have any two cross paths.

Again totally fabricated. As you're pointing out it would be hard to "never have any two(!) cross paths". Right. But that's not at all what we're talking about here. On the third picture you can see about 20(!) crossing overs, and that was only a part of that sky view. All in all there were about one hundred(!) crossing overs/intersections within only a few square miles. Now are you trying to make believe these were regular 'airways'? Excuse me, but how stupid do you think I am?

[edit on 7-2-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
destroy our body slowly but steady, e.g. the brain.

So are you trying to say that the folks who claim to experience these chemtrails on a regular basis all have brain damage?

I can agree with that.

Remember you said it not me...

Nice distortion of what I said. Nobody asserted everybody experiencing chemtrails gets/has a brain damage. But those damages GRADUALLY increase for the whole population.

And, I don't think this is a funny issue.


[edit on 7-2-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

OK. Checkerboard pattern-
Without knowing the specific weather conditions of the upper atmosphere at the location the phenomena is seen, here is a guess...

You have two intersecting airways at a VOR, crossing at a rough 90 degree angle. The upper level winds are blowing in at a 45 degree angle. Each jet that passes on each airway leaves a contrail; which are then blown somewhat together off to the side. Each following jet will then leave a contrail in a slightly different location than the first one...which could result in....you guessed it- a checkerboard pattern.

Just a theory.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by md11forever]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
"... If it is slow-working pollutant then it MUST affect the government guys too since it is spreading everywhere - they also eat/drink/breath (i hope)."

Yes. And now check whether there are also chemtrails over Washington.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Life span is rising. Number of cancer cases in Western world actually gets lower (after peaking decades ago).

No, check the very LATEST medical data; see also the answer below.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
If it is poison - it must do something bad. To humans, animals, insects. Now bees took a hit, frogs also are vanishing - so there wa a time i considered it as a possibe hint, but bees colonies are coming back. So i really fail to see result of this, if it happens.

Small animals often have only short life spans. So slow poison cannot have effect on them as on human body parts which accumulate poison over many years.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
First doctors will notice a rise in cases of X - and there are a lot of doctors, you cannot dismiss that they are being all on evil side. So far no epidemics, not to mention pandemics were noticed.

No, assuming the massive(!) spraying began about 1995-2000 or even later, the very implication of slow poisoning will only become noticeable approximately from about 2010 on.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Originally posted by md11forever
"OK. Checkerboard pattern- ....You have two intersecting airways at a VOR, crossing at a rough 90 degree angle. The upper level winds are blowing in at a 45 degree angle. Each jet that passes on each airway leaves a contrail; which are then blown somewhat together off to the side. Each following jet will then leave a contrail in a slightly different location than the first one...which could result in....you guessed it- a checkerboard pattern. Just a theory.

Being blown from a 45 degree angle all trails would quickly get swirled in a noticeable extent. Secondly they would change their direction/alignment, i.e. lose their 'even' alignment. Both isn’t the case in the third picture on page 1 (multiple 90 degree alignments, and ‘even’ trails). Thirdly an exact 45 degree angle would be a rare coincidence.

Only a 90 degree angle wind could - theoretically - displace trails maintaining their ‘even’ alignment. But, an exact 90 degree angle wind would again be a rare coincidence. Secondly it logically cannot possibly blow from two directions at the same time.

Hence a checkerboard pattern like on picture 3 can only result under windless conditions. Hence the planes must have flown in that pattern.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Secondly it logically cannot blow from two directions at the same time.

Why not? It most certainly can if you have wind coming from two different sources. Put two fans in your bedroom and point them in different directions. There you go. Or do you really think that all wind in the atmosphere comes from the same place?

Originally posted by DrJMengele

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Secondly it logically cannot blow from two directions at the same time.

Why not? It most certainly can if you have wind coming from two different sources. Put two fans in your bedroom and point them in different directions. There you go. Or do you really think that all wind in the atmosphere comes from the same place?

You don't mean that, do you. Ever heard ONCE in your lifetime a radio message announcing winds from two directions at the same time??? As I stated in my post at the top of this page, some people often try to argue with “special conditions”. But this would be REALLY special.

Even if wind from two direction would be possible in nature, guess what, a checkerboard pattern like that on picture 3 on page 1 would quickly become swirled and ‘destroyed’ within one minute. That's why such a checkerboard pattern can only occur during windless conditions.


[edit on 7-2-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Upper level winds most certainly do change direction with height. Can be completely opposite of what a person feels on the ground...
Every now and then you can see clouds moving in two totally different directions up there.

But hey, I guess they're chemtrails. No other explanation makes sense to you.

Originally posted by md11forever


But hey, I guess they're chemtrails. No other explanation makes sense to you.

I wonder what he would do if he experienced a microburst? He would probably think aliens are attacking the earth!

Hi, inquisitive persons.

I can't believe, people playing the ostrich-head-in-the-sand game.

Here are some videos to pounder:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2815320198655156407&hl=en
1:39:23 long.

Let's hope that the contrail promoters will be **honnest** enough
to see it to the end.
There are demos of what a chemtrail is, and what they do
to the health of peoples under them !

View the SLINKY to spread it better !
And ****trail FULL WIDTH of the WINGS ????????
And the spot where planes do their 180* turns ! ! !

www.youtube.com...

And watch what you will argue, I'm a pilot !
1 = CONtrails start 150' to 300' behind the **engines** !
2 = CHEMtrails start RIGHT at the nozzles, installed on
the **wings** or at the **tail** of the plane as in this video !

FINALY I FOUND IT !
The trails are not EVEN BEHIND the engines ! ! ! ! !
www.youtube.com...

PRESS PAUSE AT 0:20 seconds ! ! ! !
2:41 to 2:48
LOOK TOP RIGHT ! ! !

Ostrich-heads-in-the-sand, see this short 2:01 minutes one:
www.youtube.com...

EDIT 09/01/08:
Now, to fight this we do 2 things:

1 = Get informed, awaked,
Do research on: Illuminati, Elites, Black ops, 300 committee. . .

2 = Do something, the awaked way.
Do research on: Intention experiments, or
possibilities of: proposal.permanentpeace.org...

Blue skies.


[edit on 09/2/8 by C-JEAN]

hello everyone,
after reading all this its very appernt that the arguements againt the existance of chemtrail are derived from evidence set forth by the same enity that is belived to be doing the chemtrails.Its like McDonalds serving kangaroo meat for hamburgers and telling everyone its beef.You can go and pull up a pic of beef hamburger it looks the same,so it must be beef there serving,yet it isnt.this is just a exaple im not saying McDonald serves kangaroo lol.but i am saying that ALL the evidence we have is from the same people we suspect so how can we take it at face value.Some would say well we have scientifc evidence of contrails, and i would agree,but adding something to the mixture just as million of crop dusters do would be much harder to tell.And dont argue about the crop dusters array for dispersal being diffrent,it is,but all high altitude sparying is same method,no matter if seeding cloads for rain, or spraying a as of now unknow to the public harmfull chemicals.
and u ask why would anyone do that?
well for one they may BELIVE they know best and are trying to "fix" the atmospher,but time and time again we see that good intention DO NOT EQUAL good results.Another reason albit grim, is slow depopulation considering we dont have the reasources to support the current # of humans on earth.Another reason,an alien/unkown agenda.Another reason, there may be some atmosperic quaility theat enhance the current technoligy they have,so therfor they modifi the enviroment to use this tech more effectively.Another,it could be a form of disipating the current levels of CO2 in the air through chemical treatment of the atmospher.Im not a genius so i cant think of 100's of reason , but im sure there is.
THE FACT REMAINS all contrails look alike,but not everything that looks like a contrail is one.
it very hard to realy be informed when the poeple u suspect are the ones suppling the information to you.and this cover all branches,u can NEVER know anything 100%,# u cant even say gravity will always be here lol.
anyway thank your for your time!

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
NO "Whaaa"! Can't you read I wrote "let's a-s-s-u-m-e". Secondly, is it always very cold in Canada?

Can we assume that its cold in the “great white north” in the winter?
Yes, I think that we can assume that.

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Totally fabricated. Such NEVER occurs, unless maybe under "very special conditions".

Its takes the correct combination of temperature and humidity at that altitude to cause contrails to persist. There are charts that show how long a contrails remain in the sky. Here is an animated one:
Contrail Simulator

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Sorry, but again a physical nonsense. Do you expect me to believe contrails are the same as "normal clouds"?

Yep, its water vapor in the air, the same thing that comes out of the tailpipe of your car on the ground. The only difference is that it can remain as a fog in the higher altitudes. The newer aircraft engines cause this to happen over a wider range of atmospheric conditions then the older engines did.

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Again totally fabricated. As you're pointing out it would be hard to "never have any two(!) cross paths". Right. But that's not at all what we're talking about here. On the third picture you can see about 20(!) crossing overs, and that was only a part of that sky view. All in all there were about one hundred(!) crossing overs/intersections within only a few square miles. Now are you trying to make believe these were regular 'airways'? Excuse me, but how stupid do you think I am?

Yeah they are regular airways. Airways are like highways in the sky that run on VOR beacons which emit a directional radio signal that the aircraft tune into then fly along. They do not all fly along them at the same exact angle, because they are not all coming from the exact same source or heading to the exact same destination. This creates your grids, “X”'s, and other patterns. Aircraft fly in “Banks” meaning that they tend to leave and arrive at airports in roughly the same time so there can be transfers of baggage and passengers, so they will create such a grid in a very short time near an airport.

It has been well shown here on ATS that civilian commercial aircraft are not spraying anything, and that military aircraft would need to file for a TFR and issue a NOTAM if they preform any military maneuvers outside their normal MAO. This in itself pretty much ENDS the discussion, as even the military have to abide by these rules.

defcon,
keep on the good work
why those chess trails also happen when it is warm ? we can observe the full big boards once in a week and a couple everyday in different locations in full summer, south of europe - amazing distribution of the air traffic eh...

why the phenomenon only appeared so recently (90's)? we have planes since decades...

and why those trails never happen outside NATO countries ? (could never ever spot one in years in asia)

(and don't forget c-jean video nor that spain or russia admits doing chemtrails for wheather control purpose)

ya i used to think they were just contrails but here in nevada i see them all year long. which is strange because some of these contrails or chemtrails stay around for quite a long time while others in the same area disspate almost immediatley. one day there will be no trails, the next there will be many stretching well over 20 mi long and the next day with the same wather the sky will look like a damn checkers board.

why those chess trails also happen when it is warm

Temperatures vary at different levels of the atmosphere. I've seen jet planes that go up in a warm day and come down with ice. it depends a lot on how high they fly.

Chemtrails as a idea are impractical. Both by wind currents and such alone, they'd be carried miles before there'd be a chance of them influencing our level of atmosphere, with a decent probability, with my understanding of wind currents, of any particles being swept up and continuing to stay airborne for months.

Originally posted by ::.mika.::
why those chess trails also happen when it is warm ?

It has to do with the difference in temperature/humidity at altitude and the temperature of the engine running through the air.

Originally posted by ::.mika.::
we can observe the full big boards once in a week and a couple everyday in different locations in full summer, south of europe - amazing distribution of the air traffic eh...

Flight schedules vary by day of week, and by season of the year. So in spring you have a lot more flights, and maybe extras on certain high volume days of the week. The distribution of that traffic depends on ATC, and they use various factors to decide where to more volumes of traffic through at any particular time.

Originally posted by ::.mika.::
why the phenomenon only appeared so recently (90's)? we have planes since decades...

There were always persistent contrails, as there are pictures and witness testimony of them back to WW2. There are pictures of them in meteorological textbooks back in the 70's. The reason there are more now is two fold: First there is increased air traffic now, second is that the airlines started changing aircraft types in the mid 90's, The newer engines are larger, and run at temperatures that allow the formation of contrails in warmer air.

Originally posted by ::.mika.::
and why those trails never happen outside NATO countries ? (could never ever spot one in years in asia)

We have people who post chemtrial threads from all over the world, however there are vast areas where I am sure its too remote so there is either little air traffic or no reporting of them from there.

Originally posted by ::.mika.::
(and don't forget c-jean video nor that spain or russia admits doing chemtrails for wheather control purpose)

Incorrect, Russia & China admit to doing cloud seeding, which is entirely different, and removes clouds from the sky, not produce new ones. There was an article about Chaff being used by the Germans, which is nothing new, and again not chemtrails. Chaff is an electronic countermeasure that shoots small strips of aluminum into a burst that confuses radar tracking missiles. Chaff has been in use since WW2 and does not look anything like what chemtrialers claim chemtrails look like.

reply to post by defcon5

1. You are simply keeping on omitting facts, glossing over facts, making statements that are physically or statistically false or are as far fetched as stating “of course our world is flat, everybody knows we would fall down otherwise.”


Now, ultimately I can’t prevent you from keeping on posting fairy tales. As soon as someone has disproved your latest claims you keep on dodging and producing new “facts” that contradict the laws of physics. It’s like a machine, stomping, stomping, never ending. It’s the huge “D“-machine. Welcome to it.

I do not have and do not want to take my time again and again to answer posts that do NOT INTEND to take note of facts, that do not care about what really happens and just keep on dodging and dodging. That's not "discussing", that's kindergarten.

The URL you mentioned above (profhorn.aos.wisc.edu...) links to a site providing obviously made up “information”, made up to deliberately mislead and disinform readers. The 'applet' ("The applet demonstrate how ....) alleging to explain the “formation of contrails” distorts and omits important facts and thus is simply meaningless and useless as a depiction of the real situation. And that’s exactly why it is presented as only an artificial 'applet' and not as a movie clip. Because you can’t make a movie clip of something based on distorted facts. But the 'applet' does look niiiiiice... - welcome to the machine. Or, click on “More on contrails” on that page and then on the “shuttle contrails” clip. The clip shows what are obviously regular clouds or chemtrails, but blatantly terms them as “shuttle contrails”. No way these could ever be “contrails”. What a nonsense. But again, welcome to the machine. Sheeple will believe.

I've seen posters falsely claim to be 'pilots' or 'engineers', but I think C-JEAN is a real one (".. I'm a pilot ... ") and obviously knows the REAL facts. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to cast an eye on his post and links above.

2. Every forum reader should try to connect the dots, to logically decide and think for him-/herself, to discern real facts from “D”-machine distortions, as the video link posted above by C-JEAN states at 0:2:25 (www.youtube.com...): “... I urge you to use your own mind. To reach your own conclusions on the truth of the matter”.

Maybe we should also take a peek at this comforting documentation "CHEMTRAILS OF DEATH":



Ultimately it’s a fight between the machine and our logic. Logic could easily defeat the machine. But only if we do strive to use logic. Unfortunately the use of logic and brain seems too laborious to many people. That’s when and why the machine wins. And that’s why all/most/many of us are probably gonna die in a not so far future.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Originally posted by invisibleman11
ya i used to think they were just contrails but here in nevada i see them all year long. which is strange because some of these contrails or chemtrails stay around for quite a long time while others in the same area disspate almost immediatley.

It has to do with how cold or warm the air is, compared to the amount of saturation (wetness/humidity) of the air.

You can even do an experiment yourself. Ever go out on a cold day, and let out a deep breath for you can "see your breath"? That's basically the same thing as what a contrail is.

Let out a really, really deep breath from your inside lungs, where your breath is very very warm. The condensation cloud that comes out of your mouth will linger around for quite a few seconds.

Now let out a really quick, fast breath from inside your mouth, where your breath is cooler. The condensation cloud that comes out of your mouth will not linger around at all, if there is even a condensation cloud at all.

It's the same basic principal as contrails. Jet engines that operate at a hotter temperature will produce longer lasting contrails. Not only that, but it depends more on the actual temperature of the air/atmosphere the jet is flying in itself. The colder the air and more saturated (wet/humid) it is, the longer the contrail will persist, no matter how hot the jet's engines operate.



What about when contrails stop and start again? Surely that's a pilot flicking on and off a switch to turn on and off a sprayer!! No, it's not. The jet has just entered an area of the atmosphere where the air is warmer and less saturated, so contrails cannot form there. And then the jet enters back into an area of the atmosphere where the air is cooler and more saturated, and contrails can form again. Again, you can do this experiment yourself to help you understand. On a cold day, go outside and do the breath test, where you can see your breath. Then go inside your house which is warmer and drier, and try to see your breath. You can't.


As air rises, it releases stored energy and gets cooler, which is why generally the higher up in the atmosphere you are, the colder it is.



This is why you can sometimes see two aircraft in the sky, one with contrails behind it, and another with none. It's because the one with contrails is flying at a higher altitude (impossible to judge from the ground) where it's colder, and where contrails can form. And again, it's not just dependent on the temperature, but also on the humidity (saturation) of the air. The wetter the air is, the more easier it is for contrails/clouds to form, so it's even possible for a jet flying at a lower altitude to develop contrails while one that is higher won't.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by DrJMengele]

Not just a sunny day in BC, but a sunny day in Vancouver. Lately I've heard its like a fog carpeting the skies there.

I've seen alot of chemtrails, and had militia type US looking planes flying over the poorer townhouses in Penticton, BC, dusting us with poison. There was a sludge on our back porch and on covering my van at the time too! My son who had so so health, has never recovered since that time, but has spent most of the time permanently sick.

Originally posted by mystiq
Not just a sunny day in BC, but a sunny day in Vancouver. Lately I've heard its like a fog carpeting the skies there.

I've seen alot of chemtrails, and had militia type US looking planes flying over the poorer townhouses in Penticton, BC, dusting us with poison. There was a sludge on our back porch and on covering my van at the time too! My son who had so so health, has never recovered since that time, but has spent most of the time permanently sick.

So you didn't take any photos of this "sludge", nor collect any samples and have it tested?