Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

reply to post by Frankidealist35


That's your third post about 'bad conservatives' but the fact is that there have been just as many threads about Bush43 being evil or being the anti-christ throughout the years. Obama has his birth certificate controversy, but Bush has his AWOL controversy. There is no difference.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
the middle east forum is another forum where a number of israeli members come online late at night (US night) and bait and complain.

How many are a 'number'?
Are their complaints true or do you just not like what they say?
How do you know they are from Israel? Do they say they are?

The MODS can see where people post from.
Would a MOD please either verify or debunk this statement.
Are we being targetted by a group from Israel or not?

Thank you.

reply to post by ipsedixit

I have been slamming Bush since I got on these forums and am now retooling to begin slamming Obama.

I think I know what you mean, but the words you used border on a violation of t&c in as much as you say you are preparing to slam the "person" and not the "actions" of the person.
Get it? Go ahead and criticize or correct what someone does or says if you believe it was wrong, but leave the doer of the deed alone.
At lease thats how I take it.
Personally I think it gets hard not to attack the person him/herself after a long while of their doing bad or stupid things.
So now I am contradicting myself.
I actually have a hard time with rules when they are applied in an absolute fashion by persons on a power trip. That's why I keep getting asked (politely) to go away by the SO.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


Yes, American politics are typically a mud-pit of mayhem, and we understand that. Also, I've personally noticed a frustratingly odd trend in that members who have long been critical of Bush, are now suddenly intolerant of criticism of Obama.

I don't have a problem with anyone who is critical of Obama, but I think it's insulting to have a sig that reads "obamanuts" in reference to the ats'ers who happen to like him. I've been plenty critical of Bush, but never attacked another person or insulted them because they happened to like the man.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Asherah
I don't have a problem with anyone who is critical of Obama...

Nor do I.

However, I and some other staff have been noticing an irrational sensitivity from many toward harsh criticism of Obama. Some of the rhetoric from partisan mainstream media is compounding the problem, but certainly his staunch supporters need to realize that he is certainly not off-limits.

Because of this surprising amount of criticism sensitivity in some, I can *understand* where terms like "Obamaites" and "Obamanuts" come from. Just as liberals often referred to Republicans as "Repugnants." Just like any such general term, usage is important. When used an insult directed toward a member, that's bad and warnable. When used to define a generalized attitude of a group of people, it ain't great but most likely not warnable.

Make sense?

Originally posted by SS,Naga
Finally, the moderater who chose sides with the insulters, removed two posts. Another mod came on, and cleaned up further posts via editing. I said I wouldn't leave until they stopped the abuse: the fairer mod stopped it, and I never went back.

I checked the rules, and it seems that the mods were permitted to favor those they chose to, and 'shy away' from correct procedure (duty) when they felt like it.

Yeah something similar happened to me (a direct and obscene insult, think female genetalia) was used, and the poster was getting behind the scenes preferential treatment from a Mod friend (i.e. counseled via u2u, no public warnings, so he changed the word to make it a less obscene insult).

If you come across a corrupt cop are you going to complain to the cops friends/partner about it? That will typically only make your problem worse. Escalate the complaint to a higher level or take it to a different department. I emailed one of the administrators and he took care of the whole matter promptly.

MAN THIS IS [SNIP] I TELL YOU [SNIP]!!!!!!!

ITS ALL CENSORSHIP!!!!

ITS EVERYWHERE!!!

EVEN ATS HAS BEEN INFECTED!!!!

emoticon

ah i'm just joking. I totally agree with the overlord ;-P

Civility needs to be maintained.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 26-1-2009 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I have to make two points.

1) I think just because some immature people may have called others "Bushies" is a lame reason to continue to allow this High School like attitude.

2) Worse than name calling is the intentional circumvention of reason.

Basically, nothing is worse than getting called an Obamabot, while arguing with someone who doesn't find logic useful. So, while you may *understand* why it seems okay to call us Obamabots, I have to disagree.

Most of the "anti-Obama" threads have been absolutely disgraceful to this site, and quite frankly, it is my opinion, that you should be extremely thankful we are here to balance the scales.

It may be a conspiracy site, but I don't think that gives any excuse for the lack of quality accusations against him.

Oh, and final point. If you really want to compare people now to how people behaved about Bush, then you need to compare it to the 2000 elections and not 2004.

First of all, I'm glad to see this thread. Thanks to staff for making this decision.

Secondly, just a word of unsolicited advice to my Irish bud and any other "Obamabots" (like myself) on the board.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
1) I think just because some immature people may have called others "Bushies" is a lame reason to continue to allow this High School like attitude.

I have used the word "Bushies" on this board. Yes, it's immature. What can I say? I'm young for my age.

I don't like the implications when someone says I'm an Obamabot, either. Those implications being that I voted for him for some other reason than I liked and agreed with most of his policies and think he's going to take the right direction for this country. And that I'm some sort of mindless automaton who supports the guy without any thought whatsoever in my brain.

But YOU know they're wrong. I know they're wrong. They even know they're wrong. Anyone who's ever read our posts knows they're wrong. Both of us know why we support the guy. And it's not because we "lurve" him or think he's a "savior" or "messiah". And it's CERTAINLY not because we are without thought. I think it's pretty clear that we are thinking just fine.

People say that to bug you and nothing more. Don't let it bug you. You (and I) have the wherewithal and the power to blow it off. Just a suggestion. It's what I plan to do.

I think there is less civility because the world is financially collapsing. People have a lot to stress about on top of the other things that bother them in daily life. In extreme situations sometimes you start to act a little extreme and the internet is the best place for that, the best place to almost unaccountably blow off steam.

I have no trouble admitting I’ve been less than civil sometimes, however I take the OP very seriously and will stop with the attitude; I only hope this new resolution of mine will hold up in a heated debate.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Asherah
I don't have a problem with anyone who is critical of Obama...

Nor do I.

However, I and some other staff have been noticing an irrational sensitivity from many toward harsh criticism of Obama. Some of the rhetoric from partisan mainstream media is compounding the problem, but certainly his staunch supporters need to realize that he is certainly not off-limits.

Because of this surprising amount of criticism sensitivity in some, I can *understand* where terms like "Obamaites" and "Obamanuts" come from. Just as liberals often referred to Republicans as "Repugnants." Just like any such general term, usage is important. When used an insult directed toward a member, that's bad and warnable. When used to define a generalized attitude of a group of people, it ain't great but most likely not warnable.

Make sense?

Actually SO, I believe that it degrades the subject at all if people are calling the other side names, I don't care if it is a person or not.

If we can't discuss politics without using snide comments when we reference common terms then we just can't really discuss politics.

If everytime I say conservative I print CONServative, I might as well be poking the conservative reader in the chest with a stiff finger.

At the end of the day, disgust and repugnance is something that should be shown to the general reader only on the rare occasion. It's like profanity.. there is a time and a place for it, yet constant profanity is a nuisance to us all. In much the same way, constant defamation is a nuisance to civil discussion.

We really can't have it both ways... either we stop calling the other side names, or we stop having civil discussion.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


ATS Administrators,
I have read and understand fully the nature of Civility and Decorum, and will conduct myself accordingly, being worthy of character and behavior at-all-times!!!
'THANK YOU" for allowing to become a Member of ATS!!!
Respectfully submitted, C.T.R.,
Elder1952

reply to post by FlyersFan

There is a huge difference. For one, we weren't questioning whether Bush was born in America or not. I just think that some of the discussions went into the deep end. I also don't recall as my time here in the Bush years there ever being this many discussion threads with people calling Obama the anti christ or the christ or whatever. I didn't mean to make my post seem like I was just bashing Republicans or the 43rd administration, I was just stating, that conservatives do it too. You can't just have one side not be able to bash the other side and have a political discussion... both sides need to be able to bash each other.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Frankidealist35]

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Frankidealist35]

All I can say is that I agree with the majority of members on ats , the guidelines should be followed and not repeated.

one of the reasons for this perceived slide from civility is that some people believe 'the hype' and other maintain their orginal feelings.

e.g

1. America is still America no matter who is in charge, or how their policies change.

2. People see the unhappiness/inequality within/without the USA and 'HOPE' that Obama will deliver them from this, at this point things go wrong. People should judge people on what they do not what they say. Just because someone says they are going to do something good doesnt mean they actually are.

We can all look at the evidence of the past and assume what will happen in the future. We cannot be sure. People need to remember this.


I for one have no faith in the American political system, of its ability to deliver positive change to the American public. I see evidence around the world of policies being put into place that would be more comfortable in '1984'. This is REAL, not the product of a spindoctors pen relayed through a skilled orator.

I do not think that Obama will help us in any way, many of my friends do however. They deserve a chance to see with their own eyes what will happen, not be bullied by aggressive posters who are SURE of something that hasnt happened yet.

To conclude. Until we the people have the balls to actually stand up for ourselves and make changes we will always be stuck at the business end of these shysters. If you dont have the balls to do it yourself, dont get angry with others who dont share your beliefs.

This seems to happen every election cycle even though the outcome is predetermined people just can't help getting caught up in all the political hype.I have noticed it tends to get worse when these are people who claim to have "woken up."

It is good to know that the ATS "administration" is stating its position on civility & decorum yet again.

I haven't been on here as long as many others have but one of the things that really convinced me to join up with ATS is actually the clear-cut & no-nonsense guideline in respect to civility & decorum. I come here to learn by sharing thoughts and to grow intellectually as well as emotionally. Things that cannot develop with personal attacks; trollings & self-righteous I-know-it-all-you-know-nothing mentality..There's always 2 sides to a story/fact isn't it?

It really is time to cut the NOISE, and start clarifying the SIGNAL. So cheers and salute for making a clear "statement" on the subject yet again...Hopefully it will also be the last that such statement will ever be needed again...

I was on one thread that turned so nasty, I ended up reporting 30 infringements. Never seen anything like it. I think admin should have kicked them out of here for their ignorant and rude behavior but they just kept asking them to be nice, which was extremely ineffectual, hence the 30 complaints. I felt very sorry for the OP as it was just out and out hounding.

What I have come to see here is that the most ignorant of posters, love to inhabit the most compex of threads and then tell everyone they are lying, it isn't true, demand proof, and generally create mayhem due to their inability to get their head around the topic, thereby completely destroying it. It seems this is ok here to do this for some reason????

Perhaps all those who don't understand the topic stay out of it or get banned from it.

Personally i think whoever starts a thread should be able to monitor it and delete the crazies and the unhelpfuls. Most sites are run like this and its a nice and simple approach that works well.

reply to post by Cedik


I understand your cynicism towards the US political system but I would not be happy in giving up our Democracy for a 1984 totalitarian system. I think Obama has the potential to make great changes. He is sitting at the top with a huge amount of popularity which most US Presidents don't have.

I think he can do a great job and pull out of the crises as a hero if he wants to. Most US Presidents achieve greatness from after a time of crisis.

I'm not saying he is great-- I just think he has a shot.

But, SO was asking people on BOTH sides to be civil. So you be civil to the American members here like myself too. I still have some faith in Democracy. I just wish that our government would stop being a corpotocracy and go back to being a liberal Democracy which is what it is supposed to be.

Originally posted by spacecowgirl
What I have come to see here is that the most ignorant of posters, love to inhabit the most compex of threads and then tell everyone they are lying, it isn't true, demand proof, and generally create mayhem due to their inability to get their head around the topic, thereby completely destroying it. It seems this is ok here to do this for some reason????

Perhaps all those who don't understand the topic stay out of it or get banned from it.

And what if the OP is lying? What if they have no proof? One can have a great grasp of the concept being put forth...great enough to realize it's a load of bunk and call the OP on it, and isn't that what Denying Ignorance is all about?

I realize this is a conspiracy site, so by definition anyone can make any outrageous claim without any evidence whatsoever and have it held as gospel by some, but wouldn't the ultimate goal of any real conspiracy theorist be being able to actually provide the proof necessary to blow the lid off the cover-up? What use is parroting the same accusations you've read on a dozen blogs or seen in a youtube video if you're not actually getting off your butt to find evidence of your own that it's really like they say it is?

[edit on 1/26/2009 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by spacecowgirl

Perhaps all those who don't understand the topic stay out of it or get banned from it.

And how would people learn about new topics or subjects if they had to "stay out" of them or..."got banned" from them?
Is that not a little harsh?