Gaza family says Israeli soldier shot children

reply to post by Bugman82


These atrocities are no surprise. Israel has been doing this sort of thing to palestinians for decades. The world watches and says "how terrible", bad Israel, shouldn't do that, don't do it again, and all goes back to "normal" until next time, and the cycle repeats, and will continue repeating until there is no longer a Gaza or West Bank and it's all just Israeli.

Israel did these things to the indigenous people of Canaan in Old Testament times at Yahweh's command and with his blessing when he finally brought them to Canaan which he gave them as their "promised land" after making them walk in circles through the wilderness for 40 years. The only difference is that now is 3,000+ years later.

In the Zionists' eye the palestinians are squatters of whom 1,000,000 aren't worth the dirt under a single Israeli's fingernails.

That seems to be the attitude which permits Israelis to do these things to palestinians without batting an eye.



[edit on 1/25/2009 by dubiousone]

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


I'll use the IRA comparison again...

The IRA regulary used to set off mortars, rockets etc at British targets both in NI and the Mainland, usually with civilians in the immediate vacinity due to the crowded nature of the Isle's. They could not help but fire from near civilians as a result. Gaza is similiarly crowded, Hamas can hardly go anywhere without being near at least some civilians...

What was the British response to IRA bombardment?

A criminal investigation followed by arrests made by Police forces, maybe with Army backup, but certainly no invasion of Ireland, a full on artillery barrage on the point of fire, or an airstrike on the van used while it is driving down a busy highway. All these things Israel sees as acceptable when responding to a home made rocket that lands in a field and kills no-one.

This is my problem with Israel, they over react totally, without regard to any innocent people or the rule of law.

I generaly support Israel but the unethical acts as of late have darkened my viewpoint toward Israel.

Killing innocent children needs to be addressed as this is a horrid war crime.

Cowardly Israel.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Israel is nothing more than a rich spoiled child. Its life has been too easy. It will never be satisfied, always wanting more. Chances are that its behavior will continue to be extremely self-centered, arrogant, proud, undisciplined, manipulative, and unlikable.

Israel only teaches us, how not to be.

Because of Israel’s cruel, inconsiderate, selfish treatment of their neighbor, I have gained so much respect, for the humble and stoic Palestinian people.



[edit on 25-1-2009 by seasoul]

Originally posted by Obliterated
reply to post by sueloujo

 

They didn't get them away to a safe place because they don't care. They kill these people and have been for the past 60 years, why would they even consider helping them?

why would they send their children out first? what's wrong with these parents...i sometimes think they only keep the children around, so they have a shield to keep in front of them. i would have my children hiding in the very safest room in the house and tell them do not come out until i tell you.

reply to post by jimmyx

why would they send their children out first? what's wrong with these parents...i sometimes think they only keep the children around, so they have a shield to keep in front of them. i would have my children hiding in the very safest room in the house and tell them do not come out until i tell you.

Please show us where it says in the article that the children were sent out first as human shields?

Exactly which parents are insane enough to use their children as human shields, unless of course you are insisting that Palestinians are sub-human (Vormensch) with defective biological imperatives.

All the ancillary stuff in this thread aside, the people of Gaza have no credibility with me anymore. We have seen hoaxed lie after lie....i cannot trust or believe them any further.

As well, the "common peoples" apparent complicity in the storage and distribution of the Hamas weaponry negates any claim of "innocent civilian".

The area is screwed up. I am sick of worrying about them....Israel and Gaza alike.

It is one screw up after another over there, starting with the theft of Palestinian lands for Israel (and the Palestinians refusal for their own land offered in 1949), right up through them electing those dipwads (Hamas) as their government.

It's amazing how fast people condemn... yet it's safe to say that no one posting here, not even I, were there.

A keyword that was mentioned by the narrator at the beginning was the word "Alleged."

1 : asserted to be true or to exist
2 : questionably true or of a specified kind : SUPPOSED, SO-CALLED
3 : accused but not proven or convicted

mw1.merriam-webster.com...

If proof comes out that an Israeli soldier purposefully did this, then I hope he gets sent away to prison for the rest of his life. I mean that sincerely.

Until then, this is nothing more than hearsay.

reply to post by stumason


I never thought of it in this context, even though it's right under my nose. You're right, why does a religion need it's own country? I'm not against Jewish people - or Arab people - but you bring up a very interesting and thought provoking point.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Tippys Dad]

reply to post by Midav

If proof comes out that an Israeli soldier purposefully did this, then I hope he gets sent away to prison for the rest of his life. I mean that sincerely. Until then, this is nothing more than hearsay.

You mean to say the words of the victims are irrelevant and without the confessions of a murderer there is no truth?

Heck, we might as well as pack our bags and go home. Maybe the Gaza onslaught was a bad dream since we too were not there and being shelled. Had we been there, I doubt you would take our word for it without the confessions of the artillery units.

reply to post by Ridhya

Those news reports are strongly anti-Semitic!

Why do you say that?

Why is it "anti-semitic" to abhor the genocidal actions of a nation?

The soveriegn country of Israel is in the wrong here. Not your everyday jewish person. Yes Israel is predominantly made up of jewish people but there are a minority of other faiths as well. America is predominantly christian yet when people around the world condemn our war in Iraq we do not respond with Oh you're just anti-christian, that is the real reason you condemn our actions you simply hate christians and then use this excuse to ignore your condmenation.


Isreal uses this as an excuse to ignore international rules of war, uses this excuse to continue it's long standing aim of Palestinian gencide. It hides behind this excuse in the face of condemnations, and uses it for comfort from the guilt after each slaughter.

Israel has perpatuated the use of "anti-semitism" in order to more easily justify to themselves the horrors it commits.

This proves itself regularly. As is with racism People are afraid to speak out for fear of being labled "anti".. BS, I can't care less about a persons faith or a national majority faith. It is the actions of Israel, It's government and military, and the lessons being taught Israeli children that will only serve to continue these attitudes of entitlement for the next generation.

I am anti-Israel not anti-jew..

Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by Midav

 

If proof comes out that an Israeli soldier purposefully did this, then I hope he gets sent away to prison for the rest of his life. I mean that sincerely. Until then, this is nothing more than hearsay.

You mean to say the words of the victims are irrelevant and without the confessions of a murderer there is no truth?

Heck, we might as well as pack our bags and go home. Maybe the Gaza onslaught was a bad dream since we too were not there and being shelled. Had we been there, I doubt you would take our word for it without the confessions of the artillery units.

To me it is more that we have seen so many lies and propaganda coming out of Gaza that they have completely ruined the credibility of the Palestinian people.

It is the same as the Blossom Goodchild person...who can believe HER anymore, either?

Originally posted by Ridhya
Those news reports are strongly anti-Semitic!

The Palestinians are semites, the people in charge of Israel are Khazars (Ashkenazi) which have their origin in Europe, and are not remotely semitic. Please do some research prior to throwing around that tired old canard. So we have non-semitic people murdering semitic children responding to criticism by calling out "anti-semite", and people like yourself chiming right in. How ironic!

The longer a conflict goes on without resolution, the greater portion of a population will be affected directly, the greater hatred by both sides, and whether one over times becomes jaded though hate or simple repetitiveness to exposures to violence, the greater the violence will be perpetuated on both sides.

In conflict, victory is the goal, not persistence.

Persistence will only perpetuate the suffering of both parties, becoming increasingly barbaric as a conflict goes on without resolution.

Folks think I'm insensitive to suffering because of many prior posts. It isn't insensitivity as much as frustration with a perpetual continuation. This just goes on and on, without resolution.

What will bring resolution? Well, that's where it gets me a lot of criticism.

But Sherman, Alexander, Patton, Scipio, Marlboro, Suvarov, and scores of others who fought over the millennia, all say the same thing: Get in and get it over with. That ends the suffering.

reply to post by Jinni


Do you even know what source you are citing? You are citing avoidable infant mortality. This in no way correlates with numbers killed by Israel.

From your source if you read through all the rubbish and propaganda they even define it themselves.

globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.com...

Avoidable mortality (technically, excess mortality) is the difference between the actual deaths in a country and the deaths expected for a peaceful, decently-run country with the same demographics.

In other words 300,000 infants have died since 1967 that were avoidable deaths. They could have died from malnutrition, lack of health care, negligent parenting, so on and so forth. However, this article tries to make it look to the reader that Israel did the killing.......and you fell for the propaganda.

Oh, and now some sources to support my number analysis in my previous post.

www.tomhull.com...
www.tomhull.com...
www.ifamericansknew.org...
www.eretzyisroel.org...
media.economist.com...

The ratio throughout history since 1948 has been approximately 4:1 for Palestinians killed to Israelis killed.

Edit: Wow, also something interesting to note is the civilian to military combatant ratios.

Edit: Another thing to note is the 1987-1993 major conflict between Israel and the Palestinians known as the First Intifada. Only 1100 Palestinians were killed in this time frame. In the second Intifada that was from 2000-2008 around 5000 Palestinians were killed. For periods of war, these numbers are quite low. Also, the lack of numbers and news concerning the deaths of Palestinians and Israelis previous to 1987 show that there wasn't much conflict going on between the two previous to the Intifadas.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Bugman82]

the child was strapped packin an ak 47 and desert eagle side arm

Time for Socratic questioning:

No bugman....Hamas was not wrong....Israel was wrong....murderously so, and it P's me off when people like you,perhaps a little ignorant of the facts, come here and insist the blame is equal....

If someone comes to one's house, takes it by force, kills one's children and rapes one's wife, kills one's family and keeps one in a dog kennel with no food and water and threatens one with eviction, death and spreads radiation all around him THEN BOTH sides do NOT have EQUAL blame!

So, you are saying I'm ignorant of the facts when I say Hamas and Israel are both wrong? Tell me what is right about Hamas using suicide bombers to "murderously" attack Israeli civilians. How is it right for Hamas to fire rockets specifically at civilian targets? How is it right for Hamas to attack while wearing civilian clothing? How is right for Hamas to attack from civilian structures knowing fully that it may result in Israel attacking those structures? I agree with you 100% that Israel is wrong. However, I also believe Hamas to be wrong.

How can one rationalize the evils that Hamas has committed? Can you rationalize this also?
www.youtube.com...

War brings about murder. Murder is a part of war as a result of the hatred that stems from both sides.

Oh, and just for future reference. There is a strawman argument floating around these boards that goes like this: Israel has killed more Palestinians than Israelis have died. Therefore, both sides are not wrong because Israel is killing many more Palestinians. Sorry, but winning and being proficient in war to the point that you kill more of your enemy is the goal. The point remains that both sides are in the wrong and both are attempting to do terrible things. Just because Israel is much stronger doesn't change this fact.



[edit on 25-1-2009 by Bugman82]

Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by Midav

 

Heck, I might as well as pack my bags and go home.

There, corrected just for you.

When you can stop talking with emotion and talk with a tad more logic, we can hold a debate.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


It is, indeed, hard to believe. Working in law enforcement and my own personal experience, it's amazing how far family will go to protect another...

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Midav]

Originally posted by Bugman82
Civilians (including women and children) die 100% of the time in any war.

Not true. There have been wars where no civilians were harmed, because the right measures were taken to avoid civilian casualties.

What has happened in Gaza is that Israel intentionally used weaponry that targets vast areas, indiscriminately killing civilians to kill a few guys.

You can't say that this is ok because civilians always die in wars, when the Israeli military in this case were killing people purposefully with their weapons made to destroy large populations.

You don't fire bomb an entire building just to kill one guy, if your intentions are not to harm civilians.

[edit on Sun Jan 25th 2009 by DJMessiah]

reply to post by DJMessiah


Could you please cite a source showing a war of any magnitude that hasn't resulted in civilian casualties?

Also, I am not arguing for Israel. You seem to miss this point as I agree wholeheartedly that what Israel has done is terrible.

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Bugman82]