USA to cancel the F-22 to fund the war?

"actually the ef has super cruise it was the first fighter to have it
also they wouldnt cancle thier 2nd fav plane and 2nd best plane "

Typhoon does have supercruise, but it was not the first. The 1960's English Electric Lightning was the first fighter that could do that, as would the cancelled original Harrier design (P.1154).
Which brings me on to my point, F22 should not be cancelled (if it's as good as clamed). The UK millitary has suffered since massive and short sighted cuts and cancellations in the 1960's, we lost fleet carriers, a supersonic VSTOL fighter (P.1154) and powerful strike aircraft (TSR2) all at a huge cost. This wasn't just in financial terms, it cost lives in 1982- no fleet carriers = no AEW or true interceptors = Sheffield, Coventry, Atlantic Conveyor and Galahad. We learnt the hard way you need balanced forces which includes air superiority something JSF can't provide. I don't mean to defend your own skies but those over what ever battlefield, if you don't have air superiority your ground forces are screwed, even against a small nation let alone some where like North Korea.

On the other side: back to the topic - just imagine that for 60 billion $ being spend in Iraq this year you could buy 600 F-22 aircrafts!!!.

It might be cancelled in favor of devloping and producing JSFs. I hope they dont cancel the F-22.

USAF is already working on the FB-22 so that may happen!

I never ever heard of the Raptor having an EMP Canon in it?

That's a new one on me!

Where is it's location on the F-22, the nose?

The Pentagon is building the ADS and it requires a 6 foot dish to focus the RF energy!

How would the Raptor focus such a beam from such a plane without a dish?

And please don't tell me it's PLL (Phase Lock Loop)!

Originally posted by Supercool
USAF is already working on the FB-22 so that may happen!

I never ever heard of the Raptor having an EMP Canon in it?

That's a new one on me!

Where is it's location on the F-22, the nose?

The Pentagon is building the ADS and it requires a 6 foot dish to focus the RF energy!

How would the Raptor focus such a beam from such a plane without a dish?

And please don't tell me it's PLL (Phase Lock Loop)!

Well not the real EMP cannon but it's radar can create an concentrated EMP/microwave beam that can jamm enemy radars or fry electronics in them. So instead firing a HARM misile the F-22 can simply fir and EMP beam on the radar/aircraft target. It is good against anti aircraft systems like S-300.


[Edited on 1-6-2004 by longbow]

Originally posted by Supercool
USAF is already working on the FB-22 so that may happen!

There is no money allocated for the FB-22 at this time, the USAF wants it but there is no funding.

the us military needs a navalised version of teh f-22 more than the fb-22

The Navy was brought kicking and screaming into the JSF program. They wanted their own 5th gen aircraft but never got it. They'll be sticking with F-35s, X/F-45s and/or X/F-47s in the future, with Super Hornets to fill in the gaps - IMHO.

The navy is still in a cold war state of mind and need to come to grips that joint programs are needed. With the retirement of the F-14 the Navy will not have an air superiority fighter. The F-22 would easily fit the void but the Navy is too stubborn to admit an Air Force fighter into its fleet. So now the Navy is stuck with a mediocre stealth strike plane and a lightweight, multirole fighter.

Originally posted by roniii259
The navy is still in a cold war state of mind and need to come to grips that joint programs are needed. With the retirement of the F-14 the Navy will not have an air superiority fighter. The F-22 would easily fit the void but the Navy is too stubborn to admit an Air Force fighter into its fleet. So now the Navy is stuck with a mediocre stealth strike plane and a lightweight, multirole fighter.

It would cost almost as much (if not more) for the Navy to commision its own design than to rework the F/A-22 to work on a carrier. Just think about all the systems that would have to change to operate on a carrier. New Landing Gear, Arrestor Hook, Wing Folding mechanism, etc.

Those things are going to add weight and take away payload capacity, something no pilot wants to give up.

yes but a reduction is still better than no airsuperiority fighter, and all carrier planes have the same problem. The Navy could use the F119-614C developed for the boeing x-32 because they are more powerful but still offer more thrust vectoring. A redisigned larger wing would be required so that the plane could fly at lower speeds but would offer more room for fuel that would increase the range back to that lost by the extra weight (which is very impressive). Afterwards just strengthen the airframe, get more durable gears and a tail hook (use old f-14 ones to save money). even with the performance loss an f-22n is allot better than the planes the navy is currently going to use.

Originally posted by roniii259
yes but a reduction is still better than no airsuperiority fighter, and all carrier planes have the same problem. The Navy could use the F119-614C developed for the boeing x-32 because they are more powerful but still offer more thrust vectoring. A redisigned larger wing would be required so that the plane could fly at lower speeds but would offer more room for fuel that would increase the range back to that lost by the extra weight (which is very impressive). Afterwards just strengthen the airframe, get more durable gears and a tail hook (use old f-14 ones to save money). even with the performance loss an f-22n is allot better than the planes the navy is currently going to use.

The Navy is not looking for single use aircraft anymore. There isn't enough money to allow them the luxury of that anymore. Nowadays the Navy needs aircraft that can perform more than one mission.

Until the F/A-22 can really pull off the "A" part of its name there is no reason for the Navy to show any interest in it at all.

The Super Hornet can do everything the Navy needs it to do reasonably well.

The raptor equiped with the SDB will put the "A" in F/a-22 and its use of the JDAM. The Raptor can be used for Wild Weasel work,cruise missile interception, EW operations, quick response strikes, and its regular air-to air role. When stealth is not needed it will be able to carry and bomb that aricraft can carry today in unusual quantities (except maybe MOAB)

Originally posted by roniii259
The raptor equiped with the SDB will put the "A" in F/a-22 and its use of the JDAM. The Raptor can be used for Wild Weasel work,cruise missile interception, EW operations, quick response strikes, and its regular air-to air role. When stealth is not needed it will be able to carry and bomb that aricraft can carry today in unusual quantities (except maybe MOAB)

What can it use to carry out EW operations or Wild Weasel work? She isn't cleared to carry HARMs or jamming pods.

the raptor can dump all of the information it gathers from its passive radar to its bombs, so a harm isnt necessary. the raptor can hack into opponents computers so it can messit up, jamming would not be required

what?
the f22 can now connect wirelessly into forign computers and hack into them?
also about the emp cannon thingy u got a link man i like the sound of it
but will use a very large amount of power

Originally posted by roniii259
the raptor can dump all of the information it gathers from its passive radar to its bombs, so a harm isnt necessary. the raptor can hack into opponents computers so it can messit up, jamming would not be required

So, you don't see a problem with an aircraft having to close within SAM range in order to destroy a target?

There is no way that a Raptor could fault an opponents computer if it can't access it. Even if it could it would take time for it to do so, time the pilot would not have while he is dodging SAMs.

so when the missile tries to aquire the raptor itpicks the SAM up and pops a bomb down it. A formation of raptors could also share info by secure links so they could randomly activate the hacking interface confusing the SAM and putting the network offline.

Originally posted by Supercool
USAF is already working on the FB-22 so that may happen!

Technically it only exists on paper, it hasn't been built... it's not on budget, and to be honest, I don't think they're gonna do it (soon anyway). Right now it's only artistic renderings, and the governments dream (that can be easily turn to reality and be more).

Originally posted by devilwasp
what?
the f22 can now connect wirelessly into forign computers and hack into them?
also about the emp cannon thingy u got a link man i like the sound of it
but will use a very large amount of power

www.aviationnow.com... =news/05244wna.xml

It says, F-22 will be able to jamm/fry enemy electronics in 2010. It is like an EMP/Microwave weapon (and those doesn't need so much energy, like lasers or railguns).
Read more about microwaves in intelgurl's thread about directed energy weapons. SO if radar detects you, you can just fire an EM beam and destry it's electronics. Radars cannot be EMP shielded.