Troubles victims

Troubles victims

news.bbc.co.uk

The group, co-chaired by Lord Eames and Denis Bradley, is expected to say there should be no hierarchy of victims and that everyone should be treated in the same way.

That would mean the family of the IRA Shankill bomber Thomas Begley would receive the same for his death as those of the families of the nine civilians he killed.

(visit the link for the full news article)

this just kicks me in the head..
how can the death of an innocent be on the same level as the terrorist who caused there death...
when will the politically correct just get it into there heads that if you set out to kill and get killed while doing it your not a victim but the main cause of your own death..
the lunatics are in charge..

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by fatdad


Because your line of thinking just perpetuates the hatred.


They are trying to make this as equitable as possible.

As far as hierarchy of deaths...

How can you say that any death is greater or lesser than another? Who are you?

The death of a family member is the same for all families regardless of who was at fault for the death.

HunkaHunka gets a star and kudos to the British gov't for creating a solution for the long view. Bury the hatred by treating all sides as equals.

It's similar to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict or the borderline racist statements made on the podium during Obama's inauguration.

Once the shooting stops and the violence ends, healing doesn't begin until everyone who was responsible for propagating or being victimized by those old hatreds are dead or marginalized.

Sometimes that takes a few generations, but you have to start somewhere.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by cogburn]

This is a topic close to me.

I applaud this - there should be no distinction, there should be parity.

yes there will be people who are hurt by this parity, unfortunately, but more would be hurt and half healed wounds would be re-opened if the victims were not given parity.

The old questions and problems would arise - is a catholic life worth more than a protestant life and vice versa.

I really think this has to be the way to go, despite some of the anomolies that spring up during the process.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

so by your flawed train of thought a pedophile is also a victim as well as the child he molested.... a terrorist is not a victim .. the innocent didn't choose to die..

I for one, am a believer in 'Eye for an eye'

That is the only true punishment.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by fatdad

 

How can you say that any death is greater or lesser than another? Who are you?

Nope.
There should NEVER be a reward for being a KILLER.

What if I find I have an inoperable brain tumor and go out to even some old score before I die and get some cash for my family in the process.

You want to reward that?

Empathy is fine but you need to stop at common sense once in a while.

just a couple of points before we get our knickers in a twist, the report hasn't actually been published yet, this point is made further down the page.

The SDLP's Alex Attwood said: "What has been reported today may be true or may be malicious but until we know, people should reserve judgement."

the second point i would make is that there is no chance of getting everyone to agree on who should be classed a terrorist and who shouldn't be, as they say, there should be no hierarchy of victimhood.

other than that, the thing i find disturbing is this

The Consultative Group on the Past is also expected to recommend the creation of a five year legacy commission, appointed by the British and Irish governments, to deal with the past - and to say there should be no further public inquiries.

no more public enquiries? wtf? the irish government are a bunch of crooks and the uk government are muppets, if they want to cut the public enquiries out they must be trying to hide something.

reply to post by pieman


it has been released today with no changes..
news.bbc.co.uk...

it a crazy world where murders are just as innocent as the people they killed in the eyes of the government....
stop this crazy world i want to get off...

For those of you unfamiliar with the IRA's objective and the collateral damage they caused due to inaccurate intelligence; here is what Wikipedia has to say:

"On October 23, 1993, a meeting between senior loyalist faction leaders, including several senior members of the Ulster Defence Association and Johnny Adair, one of the leaders of the Ulster Freedom Fighters, had been scheduled to take place in a flat above Frizzell's Fish Shop on the Shankill Road in the afternoon.[2] For an unknown reason, the details were changed. Some sources claim that the location was moved, others suggest that it was rescheduled for another time or day.

The Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) had heard about the original time, location and date of the meeting, and saw an opportunity to remove several of its most senior enemies in one blow.[3] To this end, Thomas Begley and Sean Kelly, two relatively junior IRA operatives, entered the fish shop dressed as delivery men with a large bomb hidden under a cover on a plastic tray.

They intended to leave the time bomb in the shop, where it would detonate once they had made their getaway. It was late afternoon on a Saturday, so the shop was crowded and, as the two men made their way through the people inside, the bomb detonated prematurely. The bomb only had an 11-second fuse, however, with Kelly since claiming that they would have given a warning to the shop's customers as the fuse was activated, giving them this short period of time to escape.

*Thomas Begley and nine other people, including two children and the owner John Frizzell, with his daughter Sharon McBride, were killed in the subsequent explosion.

The building collapsed, crushing many of the survivors under the rubble, where they remained until rescued some hours later by volunteers and emergency services. Many people were seriously injured in the explosion. Also at the scene during the rescue operation were several senior loyalist paramilitaries, including Adair."

i saw this had been published.
okay, it galls me that the paramilitaries families were recommended to get money in this, but at the same time i think it's a good solution.

if you try to separate out paramilitaries from victims you have to tackle really difficult questions.

you need to prove a person is a member of a paramilitary organisation. this has been proven to be a pain in the backside in the past.
you have to designate certain people one way or the other, for instance members of the groups that were killed for being informants. victim or not?
you need to resolve the issue of weather the security forces were acting legally or illegally in certain circumstances and weather people working with them clandestinely and killed in the process are classed as security or not.
you need to resolve the issue of weather a member of an illegal organisation is a victim if they are killed outside of an operation.
can a soldier or RUC member killed in the line of duty be classed a victim.

for the sake of the number of paramilitaries killed in the troubles it hardly seems worth the arguements. besides, this is kind of about putting the whole thing to bed once and for all, rather than argue it out it's probably better to just draw a line under it so we can just move on already.

Will the people of BOSTON be made to pay for the bombs they suplied when they gave money to NORAD?

or in fact any other american for the slaughter they paid for in Norn Iron?

They aren't paying people for being killers, or terrorists.

They're paying compensation to the family for their loss. All differences aside, its devastating for anyone to lose a family member, equally so at that.

So each family gets £12,000 for the deaths.
Its not a lot, and money never replaces a loved one, but at least its something.

Theres no such thing as good and bad people, some are just more susceptible to do bad things, and some are susceptible to brainwashing by those people.
Its nobodys fault.

Its life.