The Dangerous Mythology Of American Hope

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
HOPE, I like hope. Give me more hope, I say. I have been without it and being trapped in a cage is not compatible with human life. During the Great Depression, the world looked for hope, and when things started to lift up and get better, people were relieved.

And this is exactly how "hope" as a controlling mechanism is so dangerous.

The "hope" of improvement/change following the great depression did indeed foster and/or accelerate the adoption of government programs that we otherwise would not have tolerated. Under the guise of misplaced hope, the FDR administration enacted sweeping legislation that mostly benefited themselves.

The Agricultural Adjustment Act was a legislated cartel that eventually led to the death of the small farmer and rise of massive farming as a big corporate business.

The Social Security Board required non-government workers to hand over a portion (then, a major portion) of their retirement savings to the government. (It is now the Social Security Administration)

The National Industrial Recovery Act was another legislated cartel that benefited big business and unions that were friends of the FDR administration.

These are but a small example of the sweeping, and often damaging, changes that occurred because far too many had misplaced hope in the "New Deal" programs.

In fact, an insidious political strategy utilized by the FDR administration and their corporate friends was to ensure the public received scant amounts (if any) of real data about the programs -- instead relying purely on messages of "hope" and "a better day is coming". History is repeating.

Does anyone realize that the initial 350 billion dollar stimulus package...is essentially unaccounted for? No one seems to know what the banks did with it. Talk about empty hope. Not that I'm a fan of nationalizing the banks anyway. If someone can dredge up a news report on this or even if anyone has info on this, that'd be great. But, I think it's an example of misplaced hope and trust in a government that doesn't seem to really care.

Originally posted by SpecAgentDW
Does anyone realize that the initial 350 billion dollar stimulus package...is essentially unaccounted for? No one seems to know what the banks did with it. Talk about empty hope. Not that I'm a fan of nationalizing the banks anyway. If someone can dredge up a news report on this or even if anyone has info on this, that'd be great. But, I think it's an example of misplaced hope and trust in a government that doesn't seem to really care.

The Government is a magician with money. It can pull money out of a hat. And it can make it do a disappearing act.

[edit on 1/26/2009 by Lifeadventurer]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already. I didnt read the thread.
but Obama reminds me of Tony bLIAR back in 97
People thought there would be change
A new beginning
It turned out to be the same old same old
I hope America and the world hasnt been fooled the way Britain was back then.
I hold my breath and hope for the best


Obamas "CHANGE" mantra is almost the same as bLIARs 1997 claim that things can only get better!


Fingers crossed for a better world but I doubt it

[edit on 27-1-2009 by tonytone]

Very eloquent.

Correct also, I believe. I noticed how the tone of ATS changed when BO was voted in. He is our great white/black hope....

but it's not planned.... all coincidence...

Rgds
S&F

im my opinion, hope is a concept that when people are in trouble they cling to, pointlessly, but they still do. its what makes us human.

A lot of these people who say have hope

where were they 6 years ago?

saying please let's retreat from Iraq and A-Stan

let's wave the white flag

that kind of hope?



Americans are terrible

For 8 years, they whined, drank Starbucks, watched John Stewart and CNN...

Read the NY Times, trashed American and middle class Americans,

for what?

what the hell did that get us?

no where.

we are in worse shape than we were 8 years ago and these liberals won't admit that...

Originally posted by ConservativeJack

we are in worse shape than we were 8 years ago and these liberals won't admit that...

If it was just liberals, things would be looking up.

I would like to add that both left and right are to blame for the current mess we're in. In a way, the bi-partisanship both sides preach might work...except their 'bi-partisanship' entails..."I was right and you were WRONG!!!!!" Ah yes, our leaders never really did mature past the school playground.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by SpecAgentDW]

Dangerous Mythology of Hope?

Wow, so let me get this straight you are saying, by having Hope – we will/can actually have more nefarious manipulations against all the people? Thus, the apex of what you are getting across is we should not have hope and it is just a myth to be used against us?

A question to you:
Is it better to live with hope than fear, or vice versa?

Lets break down each feeling – because ultimately it is our own feelings that rule our lives in what we do and say in everyday life and how we treat ourselves and others.

Along with that, we will look at the history of the U.S.… and some remarkable eras, to see if the population of the U.S. would have been better off with the general population feeling fear versus hope. Those pivotal moments of our history – we can look at both ways….the way it was….versus what could have happened…if the opposite feeling had prevailed.

Then we will look at the future and the hypothesis if it would be better for us all to have the feeling of hope within ourselves or fear within.

Lets now look at the raw and deep feeling of FEAR:
Fear – the definition: A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.

Now – what can and does “fear” do to people in how they live their everyday lives – if that is what they feel at all times.

Under the feelings of fear – people of the U.S. could not live social lives with their fellow citizens, the feeling of fear would/does prevent people from leaving their homes, getting on planes, socializing with their neighbors, traveling outside their towns/cities. People who live in fear, look at everything through a narrow scope and dark clouds on the horizon.

Fear paralysis’s the senses and mind – thus getting things done and experiencing new places and having exciting adventures and accomplishments is not feasible for those who live in fear.

Going hand in hand with Fear is hopelessness, hopelessness works with fear it is the by product of fear. Living with hopelessness, due to fear – life is nothing – it is neither exciting, thrilling, loving, or bright. Darkness surrounds the senses and mind and makes one incapable of having fulfilling experiences and relationships. People do not get things accomplished by living with hopelessness, due to their attitudes “it really doesn’t matter” upon undertaking a task.

Now that we have looked at a small byproduct of living in fear, lets look at the definition of HOPE.

Hope – by definition…..A wish or desire accompanied by confident expectation of its fulfillment.

The above definition, is just a very small and explanation of hope. Though I would gather, many of us could come up with a much better definition – than the official one in a dictionary … through our own experiences of hope, we have experienced in our own lives.

Now, lets take “hope” as we did “fear” and look at how we have/could live our lives with it, in place of fear.

People who live with hope as their raw emotion, would and do get things done, as they feel an expectation of reward at the end of their endeavor. Hope drives people to do their best in a situation, hope drives people to socialize and mingle with their fellow man. Hope allows people to experience the world – with the thought of seeing and experiencing brand new and wonderful places. Hope is the bright light at the end of what my be a travel through a dark tunnel, but it drives people to push onward through the darkness – because there is a feeling of brightness to await them at the end.

Just as the feeling of Fear having byproduct of hopelessness, The feeling of Hope has a byproduct too… it is called: Faith!


But instead of just using definitions, lets now go back through history and lets look at what might have been, if people would have been driven by Fear instead of Hope, and where we might all possibly be today if that had happened.

First from history, lets look at Christopher Columbus’s discovery of the New World:

If Columbus had the feelings of “fear” he would never have set off on the opened oceans, due to at that time in history the world was considered… flat. Others told Columbus, he was going to fall off the face of the earth, if he sailed very far from Spain. Are we all thankful, he did not then cower back in fear, in the face of “the world being flat” as everyone was telling him? I would bet all of us are, he instead took his feelings of “hope” to conquer the seas and to discover what other places and land laid outside his own small world. His “hope” is part of what has shaped the world to what it is today, he set out – not knowing what laid before him, but yet knowing that his own feelings of “hope” was driving him to risk is life – for the ultimate betterment of others.

Question to you: Would we be better off today, had Columbus instead lived in fear and had not discovered the New World and listened to all those, who told him the world was flat and he would die – if he sailed too far off the coast?
Thus was it better…. Columbus lived with hope in his own mind?

We will jump a little forward in history now:

Lets look to the forming of the United States of America,

Lets look at what happened, compared to what could be if the opposite feelings of our forefathers had numbed their minds and senses and thus dictated what they did and fought for during the American Revolution.

I would like to ask this question of you – before I get too deep into this particular discussion.
Which feeling do you think our forefathers had; the feeling of “Hope or Fear” when they wrote the “Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights”? One follow up question to go along with it……
Do you think – they knew there would be resistance from England by writing the “Declaration of Independence” but were still determined to do so and what would have happened, had the opposite feeling been in place, would the “Declaration of Independence” had ever been written?

Have you answered those questions yet?

Lets dissect the questions now together…..

Did the forefathers have the feeling of “Hope or Fear” when they wrote the “Declaration of Independence”?
I would wager everything I have with the answer of “Hope”.
Thomas Paine had written a letter in Jan. 1776 wrote a pamphlet titled: Common Sense.
Link to pamphlet: www.americanrevolution.com...

The sun never shined on a cause of greater worth. 'Tis not the affair of a city, a country, a province, or a kingdom, but of a continent- of at least one eighth part of the habitable globe. 'Tis not the concern of a day, a year, or an age; posterity are virtually involved in the contest, and will be more or less affected, even to the end of time, by the proceedings now. Now is the seed time of continental union, faith and honor. The least fracture now will be like a name engraved with the point of a pin on the tender rind of a young oak; The wound will enlarge with the tree, and posterity read it in full grown characters.

The above is a very small fraction of what is written in the pamphlet – does that sound like hope or fear in his words?
If our Forefathers had lived with the feeling of fear in their hearts and minds, the United States of American would never have happened or been formed. We would still be living under British rule. Our forefathers would have been paralyzed by the threats from England and thus would have been afraid to go to war over what they saw and felt as a better future for the colonies. They were met with resistance from all areas, even those people who were in the colonies. Why did those already in America – resist against what our forefathers saw for us? Let’s hazard a guess –their feelings were: Fear! Fear of what would happen with resisting England.

continuation of post:

Our forefathers felt in their hearts and minds: Hope, the Hope of a bright future and the Hope of being free from the tyranny of the English Crown. Otherwise, they would not have been able to take steps and stand up for what they perceived as a “light at the end of a dark tunnel” and thus the United States of America would never have been formed.
You mentioned, people can be manipulated more under the guise of Hope.
I will concede, there have been times – people were scammed or manipulated from false hope, but history in a wide spectrum of viewing – has shown – the best things done in the world have been due to Hope compared to Fear.
Questions for you to answer:
Question 1: Would there be new technologies and industries and would we have T.V.’s, phones, etc. if there it not been for the people who created them – living under the idea of Hope that their experiments would work out without yet proof of a successful experiment thus far?
Question 2: If we did not have hope, would people then not get married or have kids, due to their being fearful of meeting other people and who their spouse may become to be in the future or what their children might be like?
Question 3: Do you think the world could survive and flourish if everyone felt Fear instead of Hope?
Question 4: Do you think more would be accomplished with people living in Fear, instead of Hope?
Question 5: In your life, when have you been the happiest – was it when you have lived with the feeling of fear, or has it been when you have had the feeling of hope?
On a personal note: I myself, have not been able to accomplish much at all, when I have lived under fear, it has caused depression and hopelessness.
Yet, when I have lived with the feeling of hope, I have accomplished much, though something might not turn out the way I expected or hoped it would be, my life has been much fuller and complete filled with wonderful adventures and happy memories.
So now for one of your last sentences in the main body of your thread: “ The past decades have shown that real American Hope is a myth.” – Take a good look at your sentence, haven’t I now proved you wrong? Due to the fact there would be NO “America” had there not been Hope in the last decades/centuries.

reply to post by mister.old.school


Very well put. Very intelligent choice of words. This man came out of nowhere. Yet, he just barely began his career before arising to a most powerful political position. Only in the senate seat for nearly a year, the media has no claims of any dirt on him. Yet... He announces he will run for president. I find it very funny. The whole thing. I feel sorry for all the poor folks who believe in him. He will betray them all.

reply to post by mister.old.school


Excellent post. I am going to hit the 'alert' button .. but in a good way. I'm going to ask that you be given the title 'writer' under your name.

opening post

Originally posted by mister.old.school
What nefarious manipulations may now be accomplished under the guise of hope that could not happen under the specter of fear?

A little more than one year after authoring the opening post of this thread, we now know the rapid pace of those feared manipulations.

A despondent nation and ineffective government, whirling dizzily backwards on our pedestals of hope. The dangerous void now forms, a void where the public may respond lemming-style to anything that we're told is a corrective action.

Be wary my friends. Be very wary.

I'm bumping this thread, as a rarely do.

I was looking for more ATS Classic gems to add to the master list, and found this.

The opening post is stunningly prophetic.

Now this......
Is an awesome thread!

a reply to: baddmove

Thank you, kind reader.

At the time, I was working on my best speculative perspective; as a cautionary circumspection. With the benefit of hindsight, I'd not change a single word.

What an amazing OP!!! Let's see if we can revive this old thread so that it can be read.

Now that a few years have past we are able to see just how truthful mister.old.school's words were.