The Dangerous Mythology Of American Hope

So, I am wondering how many of you "People of great hope" drink alot of bottled water or drink city tap water. Just a thought.

reply to post by mister.old.school

Originally posted by mister.old.school
These "flavors" of genuine hope are not the subject of my observations.

Ok. But their unrestrained existence produces the same vulnerability as the brand of hope you describe.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
The fear of the past years was manufactured.

The hope is manufactured as we were becoming fatigued of the fear, and new-found hope after years of fear is a very powerful tool.

Then I suppose you are asserting such hope is the consequence of some plan, while I see it as more likely just the natural consequence of the desire for change.

Nonetheless, I still think we are just splitting hairs as we seem to agree that hope, regardless of how it is derived, produces a very real vulnerability.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Quitting an addictive bad habit, standing up to a bully, making a tough personal decision to leave an abusive spouse or boss. 3 quick examples of hope trumping fear.

What you describe is courage not hope.

Hoping you will quit a bad habit won't make you quit a bad habit.
Hoping you will leave a bad relationship is not the same as leaving one.
Hoping you will stand up to a bully won't make you stand up to a bully.

Don't confuse desire with hope. Desire is not hope. Desire stands alone as it is. Desire is what stirs and motivates one to action. Desire comes first, then action.

The idle sit and hope or fear. Hope and fear are about the outcome.
Hope of success and fear of failure are distractions from doing.

In a survival situation it is desire, determination, self-reliance, and action that will save you and others - hope and fear are worthless.

Originally posted by FiatLux
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

That is the problem with humanity. We hope only for oneself, not for all. We need to start understanding, this is not about me alone, or you alone, it`s about everyone in this world. It`s not about us holding onto hope for the United States, or those in Europe holding onto hope for Europe. We need to start looking out for each other, all over this world, and stop thinking about ourselves or just OUR country.

If your going to hold onto hope for yourself, spread that hope worldwide, we all need it. Take self out of the equation and place all there instead.



[edit on 23-1-2009 by FiatLux]

Oh indeed I do. The story of being able to believe in the superman within is one of my biggest themes.

I was just responding to some poster who said that hope equated to dependence on others, thus leaving you powerless.

My point was that Hope in yourself doesn't leave you powerless , so hope does not make you dependent on others.

I follow ya though...

i would have to disagree that, at such a crucial time, at the heels of fear, that hope would be offered blindly. Obama must be well aware and educated enough to know that if he does not follow through on his promise of hope, after lifting us up out of our quagmire of fear, that, if he fails and we are yet again disappointed, the fallout would be catastrophic. People who are driven by fear and anxiety, offered hope, then have that hope yanked out from under them are a recipe for a disaster of psychological proportions. They will no longer care. Their apathy would lead to complacency. That complacency would lead advantage takers to institute abuses on an outrageous scale. When those abuses reach the boiling point, all the people's internalized anger and frustrations will over ride their apathy or fears and they will externalize their internal emotions and frustrations.

I fear for the government that foolishly isolates it's Citizen's from it.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by spinkyboo
If we are busy deciphering what IS - at this moment -
we are not as inclined to hop back and forth between hope and fear.
We are more settled in the moment and experiencing fully
whatever the moment is offering.
In this state there is no need for hope or fear.
Just hanging out - accepting and being.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by spinkyboo]

Yep yep... I have to agree with ya there.

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


Maybe I should explain a bit deeper, Anyone remember or have even heard of the city waters having high concentrations of mood altering chemicals in them, along with other substances also. Yeah check it out it might change your reality and give you a different perspective.

Originally posted by 2 cents

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Quitting an addictive bad habit, standing up to a bully, making a tough personal decision to leave an abusive spouse or boss. 3 quick examples of hope trumping fear.

What you describe is courage not hope.

Hoping you will quit a bad habit won't make you quit a bad habit.
Hoping you will leave a bad relationship is not the same as leaving one.
Hoping you will stand up to a bully won't make you stand up to a bully.

True, but as I had stated in my prior post:
"It is my belief that, as your basic premise, you underestimated the magnitude of the innate human spirit which encompasses courage inspired by hope."

In each case, the hope of a positive outcome inspired the courage to make change.
The two go hand and hand.

The rest of you post was spot on, very well put. I especially like when you wrote "The idle sit and hope or fear. Hope and fear are about the outcome. Hope of success and fear of failure are distractions from doing. "

Pure gold.

regards....KK


[edit on 23-1-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by Electro38

 

Hope is taking power away from yourself and relying on others IMO.

You have a strange definition of hope, it's unbelievably dismal. But I think you're assuming I'm talking about hope without action.

I was speaking about hope in itself, not necessarily as it applies to our current political situation in America.

But that said, here's how it applies to our current situation in America;
we hoped for change. So I and most of my fellow Americans went down to our local voting places and voted for Obama.

So far our hope for change lead to an action, this "action" was a historic one and no small feat. (It was a long hard struggle for us to arrive at this point in history and we are proud of this "action".)

Can you see what I mean by hope as a precursor to positive actions and change? It really did happen here in America.

So let me get this straight your point Mr Old School is that at this years Bilderberger meeting, with Alex Jones shouting in his bullhorn outside, it was decided that "hope" would be this decades theme and plan of action. The CFR, Rothchilds, Queen of England and the Trilateral Commission decided that hope was the plan of action in order to further their plans for a world they already dominate and control? Hope is the master plan for...what again? What is the goal? A culling of the population of eaters? A one world government? On all the Star Trek episodes all the planets Captain Kirk visits are one world governments! Maybe it wouldn't be so bad...

reply to post by Electro38


I would say that a change was desired and so we voted. Desire came first (for change) then action (voted).

It was hoped that who we voted for would make the desired change. The decision of who to vote for should have been based in reason not in emotion.

The hope I have that Obama will do good things has no affect on what really happens.

Hoping and wishing are almost synonymous. They are emotions about an outcome.

- To illustrate my point here is an example. Currently money is really tight for me in this economic downturn. My hope that things will get better is worthless. I desire that they do get better, but hoping will do nothing. I must act. I must rely on myself and my reasoning, creativity and inspirations to take the best actions. Some would say "well you hope that your actions will lead to what you desire. And so hope is important." But it is easy to let hope or fear of the outcome blind my judgment and reasoning. The further the emotions of hope or fear is from my reasoning of a plan of action to get what I desire the more in sync my plan will be with reality. I am suggesting that the emotions of hope and fear are a handicap in reasoning and doing.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by 2 cents]

The fear of the past few years was not manufactured. We are living in real world of S&!I#T and most people cannot wrap their brains around the truth or seriousness of our reality. As for hope, hope is as real as the person who is doing the hoping belives it is. But no in REALITY America as we grew up in is gone forever and the quicker we all come to terms with that fact the better. Only when we admit that there is a problem can we unify in hope and make a true change.

no conspirator thinks he knows of any dark intentions Obama might have. I think its sad to think everything in politics is illegitimate so for now I will hold on to the "hope" that Obama is actually good. I'm not saying he is actually good but I have no reason to believe why he isn't at the moment. I find some of his actions so far as stupid (NOOOO NOT ANOTHER STIMULUS!!!) but not as an intentional mistake for the worse of the people. But, of course, things may change and I have an open mind.

Cheers!

Edit: Oh and hope, as an emotion, is not taking power away from your self and relying on others, its an anticipation for something in the future, that is what hope is in my eyes at least. Google Definition: the general feeling that some desire will be fulfilled.

Cheers! again!

[edit on 1/23/09 by MoothyKnight]

Even if Obama can bring change, I'm not sure that change will last very long. he only has two terms at most to be in charge, any lasting change will have to come from the people. I don't think that'll happen. the republicans and democrats will get swept away in the same old worthless, divisive politics.

Cannot believe americans do this again and again. Why you cheer at the "winning" of a new guy at the beginning but hate him to death at the end? You already know that you will be disappointed but you people cannot help going to a park to admire the glory of the start of a big party. Remember, he is just a frontdesk.

Another example to illustrate my point.

A woman in an abusive relationship stays in one because she hopes things will change and/or because she fears leaving.

The hope and the fear have done nothing but paralyze. When the hope that things will change has finally died maybe then the desire for change will become great enough to conquer fear and motivate her to action!

Come on folks. I don't think anyone thinks that this country will be restored to its past greatness just because we hope it will. The hope we have is that Obama will iniate the changes needed to put us back on track. That is the hope. And in my case that is also my faith. Faith is much more dnagerous by the way, as faith means you fully beleieve in a certian outcome, and if it doesn't occur, your faith and also your hope can be shattered for good. Hope allows an inverse conclusion, as if all you have is hope than you realize that it may come out the other way,so failure is much lessconsequential to our future outlook. Those who have no hope or faith most likley ony have fear.

Originally posted by 2 cents
reply to post by Electro38

 

I would say that a change was desired and so we voted. Desire came first (for change) then action (voted).

It was hoped that who we voted for would make the desired change. The decision of who to vote for should have been based in reason not in emotion.

The hope I have that Obama will do good things has no affect on what really happens.

Hoping and wishing are almost synonymous. They are emotions about an outcome.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by 2 cents]

You're talking about logical thinking and I understand what you're saying. Everyone posting to this thread has their own definition of "hope".

But I think the "hope" we're talking about in America, currently is the kind of hope people need to help them believe things will improve, get better. It's like faith, but not like blind faith, we're not relinquishing responsibility.

Hope, desire and faith are essential precursors to action, that's my point.

Power Windows is one of my all time favorite albums, "A to B, different degrees....... (bass/drums and keys kick in).

Obama doesn't give me hope. All I see is he is a practiced and measured orator who gives inspirational speeches. It's so obvious.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by Amelie]

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


Hope is suggestive of fear. One may switch from one to the other on a dime. But neither one is of any use. You would not hope if you did not also fear. Hoping for anything means that you must necessarily also fear its loss.

I hope my grandmother's surgery is a success means that I also fear it's failure. Since I cannot influence the outcome with either hope or fear I must put my faith in those that can, the doctors, my grandmother and if you believe in it, God. What action can you take? If you believe in God you may petition God, or pray for the outcome you desire.

The same is true of government. Hoping it goes the way you desire means you fear it going the way you don't want. But what can you do if hope and fear are worthless? You have reasoned action. You can't make the decisions that are important but you can petition those that do. You can inform other people so they may exert their influence as well. But sitting back and hoping? Hope and Fear are idle emotions.